WHY are you NOT a Catholic?

[PJM]

Your opening statement is simply in error.

Another POSTER on this thread HAs correctly pointed out that Paul references two incidents of Baptism relating to FAMILIES, that logically [the Jewish Tradition was to HAVE children] MOST likely DID include children.

This IS further cemented by the 2 passages I shared [John 3:5 & Mt. 28:19-20] wherein Jesus [GOD] commands [1] that ALL MUST be Baptized [2] And charges the RCC to fulfill that command.

To presume this NOT to be true is to sentence INFANT deaths to hell, or to proclaim that the bible either is in error or JESUS misspoke…

God Bless and guide you friend,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

PLEASE Read John 21 & 22 the fianl two passages in each.

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[_33monkey]

My husband had a short prior marriage, about 14 months, in his very early twenties. We have been married almost 21 years. I’m 99% sure he would not try for an annulment. Nor would I really expect him to. I’m not sure that I would ultimately convert, but I would definitely be in RCIA, if not for the prior marriage.

 

[fredystairs]

How could rejecting the doctrine of creation ex-nihilo suggest that God is not all powerful?!?!

Because then He would need stuff to create.

There was a story that I heard that might be used as a way of example:
A group of scientists came to God and told Him that He wasn’t so great. They could create life as well. God told them to go ahead an show Him. So the scientists started gathering different chemicals, dirt, water and the like. At this God said “Hold on, get your own stuff!!”

The point is this: just like the scientists in the above story, if God needs stuff to create, then He is not all powerful. Someone or something other than God would have had to create the stuff that God used to create. God would then be beholden to the someone or something and could not be all powerful and thus could not be God.

Peace

 

[PJM]

LIked the story

GBY

 

[PJM]

baptized not IF he should be baptized.”

Friend is it MORE reasonable that YOU are “happy” or that your GOD is “happy”

WHICH IS MORE LIKELY TO GET YOU TO HEAVEN?

Heb. 6: 4-10 "[4] For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
[5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[6] if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.
[7] For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.
[8] But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned. "

PRAY very much friend,
Patrick

 

[PJM]

My dear friend in Christ,

Your reply indicates both [IMO] an ignorance and a ignorance in the formation of Dogmatic pronouncement:

Mt 3:15-17 [RSV bible] "[15] But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness.” Then he consented.
[16] And when Jesus was baptized,[GOD THE SON] he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, [GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT] and alighting on him;
[17] and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son,[GOD THE FATHER] with whom I am well pleased."

Further there are a great many individual accounts of ather,r Son and Holy Spirit recounted in the NT… so are going to listen to the WORD of GOD or you’re not fully sharing friend?

Your friend is correct technically, because the formation of DOCTRINE is not defined until such time there is is a challenge to it…

The Council of Nicea in 325 AD dified it[The Nicene CREED]; BUT the Bible was FULLY authored by the end of the 1st Century:grinning:, some 1,900 years ago.

God Bless you,

 

[fredystairs]

Thank you!!

Blessings

 

[gazelam]

In addition to these passages, there are two passages in Acts that describe baptisms. First, Acts 10: 24 - 48 describes how Cornelius and his relatives and friends were baptized.

Acts 10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone who believes in him will receive forgiveness of sins through his name

New-born babies are incapable of believing. This verse clearly shows there were not any infants in the household of Cornelius.

In Acts, 16: 25 -34 shows that the jailer and his entire household were baptized.

Acts 16:33, 34 He took them in at that hour of the night and bathed their wounds; then he and all his family were baptized at once. He brought them up into his house and provided a meal and with his household rejoiced at having come to faith in God.

Infants are incapable of rejoicing so there clearly were no infants in the household of the jailer.

It could be assumed that these entire families were baptized and that this would include children.

The detail scripture provides regarding these marvelous events shows that there could not have been infants in these families.

 

[gazelam]

The Church Fathers also testifiy to the baptism of infants: “The Church received from the Apostles the tradition of giving Baptism to infants.” (Commentaries on Romans 5,9 AD 244)
St. Cyprian of Carthage: "As to what pertains of infants: you said that they ought not to baptized with the second or third day after their birth, and that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified with the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. (Letter of Cyprian and of his Colleagues in Council to the number of Sixty-Six; To Fidus [64 (59), 2] AD 251/252) Please note here that the dispute is WHEN the infant should be baptized not IF he should be baptized.

Not all ECFs testify to the correctness of infant baptism. Note what Tertullian said…

And so, according to the circumstances, disposition, and even the age of each individual, the delay of baptism is preferable. This is particularly true in the case of little children. For why is it necessary – if baptism itself is not so necessary – that the sponsors likewise should be thrust into danger?.. Let the children come, then, while they are growing up. Let them come while they are learning – while they are learning where to come. Let them become Christians when they have become able to know Christ. Why does the innocent period of life hasten to the remission of sins? …If anyone understands the weighty importance of baptism, he will fear its reception more than its delay. Sound faith is secure of salvation. (Ante-Nicene Fathers 3.678)

I hope this helps…

 

[gazelam]

The first quote from the Church Fathers was from Origen. I must have accidently pressed the reply button. Sorry for any confusion.

Not a problem in the least. God bless you!!

 

[gazelam]

Dear friend I would point out that the words , bible, catholic, Protestant, sacraments and so on are not in the BIBLE ether. Catholicism is 2,000 years old and the Ot at least 3,000 years old. The RCC is Organic and pragmatic.

Please check out this site on the Trinity in the OT

The Trinity in the Old Testament - Jews for Jesus

God Bless you,
Patrick

The link does nothing to show in the Old Testament three Divine Persons of one substance.

 

[gazelam]

OK:smiley:
So you’re saying something did EXIST before God? OR did that “something” just created itself without GOD, or it “always existed”?

God Bless you FFIEND

Patrick

Clearly there are things that always existed

2 Corinthians 4:18 (DR) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen, are temporal; but the things which are not seen, are eternal

 

[gazelam]

My friend have you ever been exposed to the One Infallible Rule for right understanding of the Bible?

Never Ever; can, may or DOES
One verse, passage or teaching have the power or authority to
Invalidate, make void or override another Verse, passage or teaching:

Were this even the slightest possibility; [it’s NOT!] it would render the entire Bible useless to teach or learn Christ Faith.

You seem to imply there are other verses that would be negated by the 4 verses I provided. (I may be mistaken since I am a simple person, as you can tell by my comments.) Which verses would be overridden by the verses I provided if we didn’t follow the One Infallible Rule? Thank you!!

 

[gazelam]

My dear friend in Christ,

Your reply indicates both [IMO] an ignorance and a ignorance in the formation of Dogmatic pronouncement:

Mt 3:15-17 [RSV bible] "[15] But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness.” Then he consented.
[16] And when Jesus was baptized,[GOD THE SON] he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, [GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT] and alighting on him;
[17] and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son,[GOD THE FATHER] with whom I am well pleased."

Further there are a great many individual accounts of ather,r Son and Holy Spirit recounted in the NT… so are going to listen to the WORD of GOD or you’re not fully sharing friend?

Your friend is correct technically, because the formation of DOCTRINE is not defined until such time there is is a challenge to it…

The Council of Nicea in 325 AD dified it[The Nicene CREED]; BUT the Bible was FULLY authored by the end of the 1st Century:grinning:, some 1,900 years ago.

God Bless you,

Friend,
There are no verses in the Bible that either state or imply that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one substance. Not only that, John 17:21, 22 define divine oneness as the same oneness that Jesus hopes his disciples attain. The disciples were clearly never meant to be of the same substance, but rather one in purpose. GBY!!

 

[Debbie_Kono]

I’m sorry for your predicament. I was also in your shoes. I hope though that you will try to find a solution. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but to stay in your situation you’re choosing adultery over Christ. I’ll pray for you and your husband.

 

[PJM]

My friend, failure to follow the One Infallible" rule, would and Does by intent, VOIS the only logical definition of TRUTH

“Truth is the condition of grace; it is the source of grace; it is the channel of grace; it is the divinely ordained requirement of grace.”
Fr. John A. Hardon S. J.

“Do everything as if God did not exist and then put it all in God’s hands as if you did not exist.”

Every day we are tempted in many ways to have a causal relationship with truth. Many situations emerge each week that temp us to bend it, stretch it, massage it or ignore it, motivated out of political correctness, a desire to be liked, or to fit in, motivated perhaps just because doing so suits what I choose to believe.

Hebrews 11: 1
“Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things that appear not”

Jer.7 Verses 22 to 23 “For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. But this command I gave them, `Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people; and walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.’ “

Mt. 4: 4 “But he answered, “It is written, `Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”

John 14: 26 “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you”

John 15:26 “But when the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me”

Matt. 7:24 “"Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock”
1 John 5: 10 & 18-20 “[10] He who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. He who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne to his Son. …

Dictionary Definition of “Truth”
1.The true or actual state of a matter:
conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement
2. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like mathematical truths.
3. the state or character of being true.
4. actuality or actual existence.
5. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.
6. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.
7. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and
transcending perceived experience:
8. agreement with a standard or original.
9… accuracy, as of position or adjustment.
10. Archaic. Fidelity or constancy. End quotes

GBY, pray very much
Patrick

 

[PJM]

And WHY exactly ?MUST" it be in the bibe? [Even the term bible is not in the bible]

God Bless you,

Patrck

 

[JonNC]

The doctrine of Sola Scriptura contradicts itself because it presupposes what scripture is; those books inspired by God that belong to the Bible. But if the Bible is the only source of Christian truth then we couldn’t have such knowledge because the Bible never tells us which books are inspired. If sola scriptura (solely scripture) were true, then we couldn’t know what scripture is.

Straw man. Scripture leaves to the Church the teaching role (see the Great Commission). As such, the Church sets doctrine and defines the canon of scripture.

 

[dallas_r]

Hello! We believe that the Bible is inspired by God and is, therefore, His word because of the church tells us so. If we didn’t have the church how would we know who has the right and truthful religious scripture? We would be lost because there are so many religious scriptures from the Hindu texts, to the Book of Mormon, and to the Koran; we wouldn’t know who to believe. All religions claim to have the true scripture and follow blindly by faith when Jesus Christ founded His church to give us guidance and answer our questions and tell us much more things than what is in the bible. How horrible it would be if the church had no authority and we only had our faith to rely on! I’m kinda tired so I hope this post makes sense lol.