E
Isaiah (of course) 35:were in the OT does it say that?
Are miracles and healings necessary?I’m agree that the 2000 year history of the Church is powerful testimony, but I dislike the argument that:
“…the reason why those healings happened so often among Apostolic times was for the purpose of getting people to believe. Christianity was new, and the proclamation of Christ needed signs and wonders as a way to validate the message in order to leave people with no excuse to not believe.” (from above post)
I don’t really see any reason to assume that healings were needed then to get people to believe, but are not needed (as much) now…If miraculous healings truly convinced and convicted people in faith then - why would they not do the same thing now???
I have to say that, if I were a non-christian - unchurched - person and was looking into the bible and the Church and such I would not find this argument convincing at all.
Peace
James
people are it just doesn’t get the attention like it did in scripture.The gospels tells how Jesus healed many people who were paralized, sick, blind etc and even gave the power to the 12 disciples to teach and heal the people. I wonder with the church having healing masses and the congration praying over sick people, why is nobody healed like in NT times? Then you also have tv avangelists lke benny hinn who on tv “supposedly” heals many people and your miracle water cure which i think those are scams for money.
Hi James,Rom422,
Nice post.
But I’m afraid it made little impression on my hard head. It does not answer the reason that, “God in His wisdom granted the performance of these miracles to help the spread of Christianity in the early days” but then supposedly curtailed them in the later days.
Jesus tells the disciples that if they have faith “the size of a mustard seed” they can move mountains. Likewise Jesus promises that his disciples can and will do greater things (signs/miracles) than He did…of they have faith and do not doubt.
As Catholics, we believe that What Jesus taught was not confined to the first generation of disciples. Apostolic succession stands on this idea that his teachings and authority continue to today. So then should miraculous healings and for the same reason - to show the power faith in God and to build up the Church.
It is for this reason that I believe the problem is less about some sort of cessession where God has “withdrawn” or severely pared down the gift of healing, but rather it relates to a difficulty in our faith.
To use your engine and fuel analogy…Those who saw Jesus high octane faith and power likewise had high octane faith themselves…but over time, the purity of that fuel (faith) became less and the “octane” decreased making it harder and harder for the engine to run properly without sputtering and stalling out.
So - to me, the problem is less about God withdrawing his gifts than it is with us being unable to muster the courage, the trust, the “high octane” needed to exercise those gifts…
Of course there are those few who are truly pure in heart who DO exhibit the faith and trust needed, but for most of us…myself included…it appears to be to lofty a goal…
“I believe, Help my unbelief”…(Mk 9:24)
Peace
James
Very well. So let us both pray for an increase in faith and conformity to God’s Will.rom422
When Jesus admonished the Apostles about their “Lack of faith” it was less about whether they had faith at all and more about the size of their faith (smaller than a mustard seed), or perhaps the quality of their faith (containing doubt).
I know that you will agree with me that faith is not a Boolean “on/off” function but rather is something that has an infinite range from nil to perfect. Recognizing this allows us to see that the biblical passages in the light of just how much faith we have and how much we have conformed our wills to God’s.
Actually, I believe there is a whole cathedral built over the site of the bedroom where the man lay when his amputated leg suddenly reappeared. I saw a picture of a carving of his restored leg in one of the stones of the church. Someplace in Spain, I believe. Why, are you an amputee?Are there investigated cases of missing limbs being restored due to prayer?
Whats interesting though is Luke 4Isaiah (of course) 35:
4
Say to the fearful of heart:
Be strong, do not fear!
Here is your God,
he comes with vindication;
With divine recompense
he comes to save you.
5
Then the eyes of the blind shall see,
and the ears of the deaf be opened;
6
Then the lame shall leap like a stag,
and the mute tongue sing for joy.
BTW, this is not a Chatholic site but I like this page on Messianic prophecy: clarifyingchristianity.com/m_prophecies.shtml
You mean of Scripture? No “bible” in those times. All Scriptures were in Greek, for the most part.Were any greek scrolls of the bible been found?
Amen to that Brother…Very well. So let us both pray for an increase in faith and conformity to God’s Will.
Blessings!
I am not an amputee but I see quite a few about, and was wondering why there is a lot of talk of miracle healing - someone knows someone who knows someone…but very little actual and recent evidence.Actually, I believe there is a whole cathedral built over the site of the bedroom where the man lay when his amputated leg suddenly reappeared. I saw a picture of a carving of his restored leg in one of the stones of the church. Someplace in Spain, I believe. Why, are you an amputee?
There are mountains of recent evidence. As for “someone knows someone” well, you know me. I was healed. I don’t go into gory medical details on forums but… I had a defect in need of surgery and was healed instantaneously during Eucharistic adoration. My RCIA director was scheduled for back surgery for a ruptured disc that healed during the night before her surgery during an extended prayer session.I am not an amputee but I see quite a few about, and was wondering why there is a lot of talk of miracle healing - someone knows someone who knows someone…but very little actual and recent evidence.
Your opinions based on your thoughts without research are noted. Thanks for sharing.I think the whole idea of miracle healing is similarly undermined…
…not incompatible; the statement is supportive not antagonistic…I don’t see how the two posts are incompatible.In fact, I think they are compatible in the sense that we really don’t know the number of miracle healings in biblical times. We know Jesus did many more healings and miricles than documented in the Bible and I’m sure more were done by the Apostles than were documented there as well.
For all we know we may be having more healings now than then. If that is the case it’s because the healings are done via a different mode (not by a prophet or the Messiah). I think also the rise of science and medical technology may be affecting people’s opinons of what is or isn’t a miracle. We may have many miracles that people write off because of medical technology of the day (eventhough they may very well be miracles).
Either way, I don’t see how any of this would be incompatible with post #15.
Here are two particular passages that speak on this in the Old Testament, you can also find it in St. Matthew where Jesus responds to the disciples sent to Him by John the Baptist (Mt. 11):were in the OT does it say that?