Why aren't people being healed today?

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were in the OT does it say that?
Isaiah (of course) 35:

4
Say to the fearful of heart:
Be strong, do not fear!
Here is your God,
he comes with vindication;
With divine recompense
he comes to save you.
5
Then the eyes of the blind shall see,
and the ears of the deaf be opened;
6
Then the lame shall leap like a stag,
and the mute tongue sing for joy.

BTW, this is not a Chatholic site but I like this page on Messianic prophecy: clarifyingchristianity.com/m_prophecies.shtml
 
I’m agree that the 2000 year history of the Church is powerful testimony, but I dislike the argument that:
“…the reason why those healings happened so often among Apostolic times was for the purpose of getting people to believe. Christianity was new, and the proclamation of Christ needed signs and wonders as a way to validate the message in order to leave people with no excuse to not believe.” (from above post)
I don’t really see any reason to assume that healings were needed then to get people to believe, but are not needed (as much) now…If miraculous healings truly convinced and convicted people in faith then - why would they not do the same thing now???

I have to say that, if I were a non-christian - unchurched - person and was looking into the bible and the Church and such I would not find this argument convincing at all. 🤷

Peace
James
Are miracles and healings necessary?

Let me first distinguish two kinds of necessity on the part of a cause. A cause is said to be unqualifiedly necessary if the effect cannot be produced without it. For example, if an engine cannot run without fuel, then the fuel is unqualifiedly necessary for the engine to run. On the other hand, a cause is said to be qualifiedly necessary if the effect can be produced without it, but the presence of the cause helps to produce it. For example, the same engine might run without oil, in which case oil is not unqualifiedly necessary. Yet, if the engine runs better and more smoothly with oil, then oil is said to be qualifiedly necessary. Likewise, a college education is not unqualifiedly necessary to succeed in life because one can be successful without it. But nobody denies that college education helps, and in some cases it helps greatly. In that sense we say that college education is qualifiedly necessary to be successful. Now these examples may not be perfect, but they give you some idea of what I mean by qualified and unqualified necessity.

Miracles and healings are not unqualifiedly necessary for faith, because faith is a gift, and it can be given with or without miracles. Also, miracles and healings are merely external signs that point to the truth of the gospel; they are not unqualifiedly necessary to validate the gospel. Yet they are powerful external indicators of the truth of the gospel, so God in His wisdom granted the performance of these miracles to help the spread of Christianity in the early days. In other words, healings and miracles are qualifiedly necessary in the early days of Christianity. Actually they are still qualifiedly necessary even today, but their occurrence, and the frequency of their occurrence, depends on God’s wise and free determination. Take the case of Fatima as an example. God found it wise to fortify the message of Fatima by the miracle of the sun. The miracle itself does not validate the message, and the message of Fatima can stand without the miracle. But I think that the miracle was qualifiedly necessary because it greatly helped the faith of the people who were then being opposed by civil authorities and the mass media.

Still there were many who did not believe. Which is why I say that faith is a gift, and the occurrence of miracles does not guarantee that everyone will believe. On the other hand, there were also many in other countries who believed even when they did not witness the miracle. Of these people Christ said, “Blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed” (John 20:29).
 
Rom422,
Nice post. 👍

But I’m afraid it made little impression on my hard head. It does not answer the reason that, “God in His wisdom granted the performance of these miracles to help the spread of Christianity in the early days” but then supposedly curtailed them in the later days.
Jesus tells the disciples that if they have faith “the size of a mustard seed” they can move mountains. Likewise Jesus promises that his disciples can and will do greater things (signs/miracles) than He did…of they have faith and do not doubt.

As Catholics, we believe that What Jesus taught was not confined to the first generation of disciples. Apostolic succession stands on this idea that his teachings and authority continue to today. So then should miraculous healings and for the same reason - to show the power faith in God and to build up the Church.

It is for this reason that I believe the problem is less about some sort of cessession where God has “withdrawn” or severely pared down the gift of healing, but rather it relates to a difficulty in our faith.

To use your engine and fuel analogy…Those who saw Jesus high octane faith and power likewise had high octane faith themselves…but over time, the purity of that fuel (faith) became less and the “octane” decreased making it harder and harder for the engine to run properly without sputtering and stalling out.
So - to me, the problem is less about God withdrawing his gifts than it is with us being unable to muster the courage, the trust, the “high octane” needed to exercise those gifts…

Of course there are those few who are truly pure in heart who DO exhibit the faith and trust needed, but for most of us…myself included…it appears to be to lofty a goal…🤷

“I believe, Help my unbelief”…(Mk 9:24)

Peace
James
 
The gospels tells how Jesus healed many people who were paralized, sick, blind etc and even gave the power to the 12 disciples to teach and heal the people. I wonder with the church having healing masses and the congration praying over sick people, why is nobody healed like in NT times? Then you also have tv avangelists lke benny hinn who on tv “supposedly” heals many people and your miracle water cure which i think those are scams for money.
people are it just doesn’t get the attention like it did in scripture.

most media outlets don’t care about a miracle healing story. But it does happen.
 
Rom422,
Nice post. 👍

But I’m afraid it made little impression on my hard head. It does not answer the reason that, “God in His wisdom granted the performance of these miracles to help the spread of Christianity in the early days” but then supposedly curtailed them in the later days.
Jesus tells the disciples that if they have faith “the size of a mustard seed” they can move mountains. Likewise Jesus promises that his disciples can and will do greater things (signs/miracles) than He did…of they have faith and do not doubt.

As Catholics, we believe that What Jesus taught was not confined to the first generation of disciples. Apostolic succession stands on this idea that his teachings and authority continue to today. So then should miraculous healings and for the same reason - to show the power faith in God and to build up the Church.

It is for this reason that I believe the problem is less about some sort of cessession where God has “withdrawn” or severely pared down the gift of healing, but rather it relates to a difficulty in our faith.

To use your engine and fuel analogy…Those who saw Jesus high octane faith and power likewise had high octane faith themselves…but over time, the purity of that fuel (faith) became less and the “octane” decreased making it harder and harder for the engine to run properly without sputtering and stalling out.
So - to me, the problem is less about God withdrawing his gifts than it is with us being unable to muster the courage, the trust, the “high octane” needed to exercise those gifts…

Of course there are those few who are truly pure in heart who DO exhibit the faith and trust needed, but for most of us…myself included…it appears to be to lofty a goal…🤷

“I believe, Help my unbelief”…(Mk 9:24)

Peace
James
Hi James,

I agree with you. I believe (1) that miracles and healings still happen, and that they did not cease with the death of the last apostle; (2) that miracles continue to be qualifiedly necessary for the good of the Church, which is why God performs the miracles from time to time, although not always trumpeted by the mass media (as catholictiger noted); (3) that faith is necessary, but not sufficient, for the performance of miracles.

Faith is necessary, but not sufficient. That means, we must have faith for God to answer our prayer with a miracle, but merely having faith is not enough because what we ask might not be in accord with God’s will. Ultimately, it will be His decision whether to grant a miracle or not. If the miracle is not performed, it does not always mean that we are lacking in faith. The Bible has many examples of men of faith who prayed, but whose prayers were not answered according to their wishes. St. Paul was one of them, for he prayed thrice for a cure to a pain in his flesh, but God chose not to heal it (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). Other examples are Moses and David, both men of faith, whose prayers at one time were not granted. See Deuteronomy 3:23-26 and 2 Kings 12:16-19 (Douay) or 2 Samuel 12:16-19 (other versions). Therefore, let us not think that we are lacking in faith when we don’t see our prayers being granted. Maybe God answers our prayers, but in other ways than we wanted. Or, maybe our prayers simply do not match His divine purposes. In that case, we just have to accept His will.

God bless!
 
rom422
I absolutely agree that in the end it is entirely up to God whether He will grant the miracle or not. I also agree that we can (and do) ask for things that are not in keeping with God’s Will for us, and that it is critical that we seek God’s Will so that when we DO ask for something it fist with His Will for us.
I’m less sure about the assertion that Faith is necessary but not sufficient…

When Jesus admonished the Apostles about their “Lack of faith” it was less about whether they had faith at all and more about the size of their faith (smaller than a mustard seed), or perhaps the quality of their faith (containing doubt).
I know that you will agree with me that faith is not a Boolean “on/off” function but rather is something that has an infinite range from nil to perfect. Recognizing this allows us to see that the biblical passages in the light of just how much faith we have and how much we have conformed our wills to God’s.

In this idea, I can see us acting very much like the disciples did during Jesus ministry. Even as the passion drew near the disciples, and even the Apostles, still didn’t “get it”. They asked “Are you going to restore the Kingdom now” and they debated among themselves over who would most important in the coming (earthly) Kingdom…They were very much “externalizing” their faith…Faith in what Jesus was going to do next…and all they had to do was follow
In the same way we very often live faith in this same way, “What can God do for me”…Without my having to change too much…Oh we “obey” but to “internalize” faith and to truly seek conformity with and union with God…That is another matter.

I don’t say this as a put down or as a judgement…I am the weakest servant in this. But my reading of Scripture does not leave me able to believe differently.

Peace
James
 
rom422
When Jesus admonished the Apostles about their “Lack of faith” it was less about whether they had faith at all and more about the size of their faith (smaller than a mustard seed), or perhaps the quality of their faith (containing doubt).
I know that you will agree with me that faith is not a Boolean “on/off” function but rather is something that has an infinite range from nil to perfect. Recognizing this allows us to see that the biblical passages in the light of just how much faith we have and how much we have conformed our wills to God’s.
Very well. So let us both pray for an increase in faith and conformity to God’s Will.

Blessings!
 
Are there investigated cases of missing limbs being restored due to prayer?
 
Are there investigated cases of missing limbs being restored due to prayer?
Actually, I believe there is a whole cathedral built over the site of the bedroom where the man lay when his amputated leg suddenly reappeared. I saw a picture of a carving of his restored leg in one of the stones of the church. Someplace in Spain, I believe. Why, are you an amputee?
 
Isaiah (of course) 35:

4
Say to the fearful of heart:
Be strong, do not fear!
Here is your God,
he comes with vindication;
With divine recompense
he comes to save you.
5
Then the eyes of the blind shall see,
and the ears of the deaf be opened;
6
Then the lame shall leap like a stag,
and the mute tongue sing for joy.

BTW, this is not a Chatholic site but I like this page on Messianic prophecy: clarifyingchristianity.com/m_prophecies.shtml
Whats interesting though is Luke 4

He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. 17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,

18 “THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR.
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,
19 TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.”

which comes from Isaiah 61:

The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,
Because the LORD has anointed me
To bring good news to the afflicted;
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to captives
And freedom to prisoners;
To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD

doesn’t mention blind people and the translation is off a bit. So I wonder was Jesus reading a greek septuigent translation rather than original hebrew? Were any greek scrolls of the bible been found?
 
Actually, I believe there is a whole cathedral built over the site of the bedroom where the man lay when his amputated leg suddenly reappeared. I saw a picture of a carving of his restored leg in one of the stones of the church. Someplace in Spain, I believe. Why, are you an amputee?
I am not an amputee but I see quite a few about, and was wondering why there is a lot of talk of miracle healing - someone knows someone who knows someone…but very little actual and recent evidence.

Stories of miraculous events that occurred in churches a long time ago are not great evidence. There was something of a competition between churches to get b*ms on seats by claiming miracles and relics that are now seen as dubious at best.

I think the whole idea of miracle healing is similarly undermined when cancers and other serious conditions can be cured miraculously (and with modern medicine) but God is not so much into re-growing limbs.
 
Tons of limb transplant miracle stories from the past. Ss. Cosmas and Damian are a good sample of the wilder kind. There were also a fair number of “grow back” ones, and a fair number of “your limb was over there, detached, and now it’s back on your body” ones.

Nowadays, not so many, but you still get a few. Generally it’s the “your limb was over there, detached, and now it’s back on your body” ones. That’s hard to document, by the nature of the event (ie, usually pretty quick) and the situations in which such things tend to occur (ie, in the middle of battle or horrific accidents). Are people imagining things from stress, or is it really happening? Hard to prove. There’s a strong incentive for people to keep their mouths shut about such things, because they can’t prove them.

But in general, God helps those who help themselves, and grace isn’t there as a replacement for hard work. Now that God has given us modern medicine and well-trained people to use it, as well as wonderful modern prosthetics, we can expect to see a lot less need for such miracles. God delegates healing to His people, when they can do it.

However, it may also be that we see fewer of these sorts of miracles because modern people don’t pray for them. If you don’t ask, you don’t get. People do often pray against paralyzations, strokes, etc., and you get a fair amount of that being reversed – often when it involves pretty much all the innards of a limb or a spine growing back.

Shrug. These things go in cycles. In another few years, skeptics will be claiming again that miraculous healings are totally natural signs of a rational superman at work, that people who are miraculously healed have just reached this super-rational state intuitively, but that most Christians are too stupid and irrational to miraculously heal themselves like good psychically superior atheists do. 🙂
 
I am not an amputee but I see quite a few about, and was wondering why there is a lot of talk of miracle healing - someone knows someone who knows someone…but very little actual and recent evidence.
There are mountains of recent evidence. As for “someone knows someone” well, you know me. I was healed. I don’t go into gory medical details on forums but… I had a defect in need of surgery and was healed instantaneously during Eucharistic adoration. My RCIA director was scheduled for back surgery for a ruptured disc that healed during the night before her surgery during an extended prayer session.

You don’t know about evidence because you haven’t bothered to look and ITT you haven’t bothered to ask. There are whole books written by people who have all sorts of medical evidence of their healing. You will believe whatever you wish. But the statement that there are no healings or proofs is simply factually incorrect.
I think the whole idea of miracle healing is similarly undermined…
Your opinions based on your thoughts without research are noted. Thanks for sharing.
 
There are different classes of miracles.

The first class of miracles consists of those which are altogether beyond the power of nature to produce. An example of this is *bilocation, *or the ability to be present at two places at the same time. St. Alphonsus Liguori was at one time given this gift. Another example is compenetration, or the ability to occupy the same place occupied by another body at the same time. We have an instance of this in Christ our Lord, when he passed through closed doors and appeared to the disciples (John 20:26).

The second class of miracles consists of those that can be produced by nature, but not usually in the subject where the miracle is performed. An example of this is the fragrant effluvia, or the “odor of sanctity” emitted by the bodies of dead saints. When the body of St. Dominic was exhumed, for example, it emitted a very pleasant and heavenly odor. This is marvelous indeed, because although it is within the power of nature to make certain bodies emit perfume, it does so usually with fresh fruits and flowers, not with dead bodies. Another example of a second class miracle is the incorruptibility noticed in the bodies of some saints, such as the body of St. John Neumann in Philadelphia. Organic bodies can usually remain incorrupt for a very long time, but not when they die. The incorruptibility observed in the dead bodies of some saints is a miracle of the second class.

The third class of miracles consists of those that can be produced by nature, but not in the manner that nature ordinarily works. To this class of miracles fall many cases of instantaneous or sudden healings, as when Christ restored the ear cut off by one of the disciples from the head of the high priest’s servant (Luke 22:50-51). Wounds can certainly be cured by nature also, but nature usually heals a wound gradually rather than instantaneously. The same is true of the regeneration of lost limbs. But among the third class of miracles that I’d like to mention is the stigmata, because unlike wounds that heal, they seem to exhibit a reversed phenomenon – the stigmata are wounds that occur and reappear in locations that duplicate the wounds of our Savior. The cases of Padre Pio and Therese Neumann are very recent documented cases that are difficult to deny.

Needless to say, miracles of the third class (or cases of instantaneous healings or sudden cures) are more frequently observed than miracles of the second class (such as incorruptibility); and miracles of the second class are more frequently observed than miracles of the first class (such as compenetration).

However, there is another class of miracles that I want to recognize, one that is not strictly a miracle, but which we experience much more frequently than the three classes of miracles I described above. For lack of a better term, I call them “miracles” although they are really just quasi-miracles, because they lack the kind of marvelous character that we see in true miracles, and we receive them mostly as God’s answer to our prayers. For example, I remember one time when my wife was seriously sick, and the doctors had spoken to her of the high risk to her life. I prayed to God in front of the statue of the Holy Child, and asked for her recovery. I asked the Father to grant this favor in honor of Jesus in His holy infancy, that my very young children might not lose their mother. Surely when Christ was a Child, He needed His mother! Within a week my wife recovered from her illness. Of course, I never claimed that this was a third class miracle, and none of the doctors in the hospital marveled at her quick recovery. They merely said that she “responded very well” to the treatment and medications. Yeah right, I said to myself. They can say what they want to say, but to me it was a miracle – call it a quasi-miracle or a miracle of the fourth kind, I don’t care. But I find it almost like a sin to doubt the miracle when God granted it right after I made my prayer. But, of course, I don’t ask anyone to believe it. Perhaps it was granted to me just for my edification. But I mention this here because, although extraordinary miracles do not often happen or are not documented, most of us probably witnessed in our own experience the goodness of the Divine Healer, who continues to perform “little miracles” like the one I described, and that have meaning to us only but not to others.
 
I don’t see how the two posts are incompatible.In fact, I think they are compatible in the sense that we really don’t know the number of miracle healings in biblical times. We know Jesus did many more healings and miricles than documented in the Bible and I’m sure more were done by the Apostles than were documented there as well.

For all we know we may be having more healings now than then. If that is the case it’s because the healings are done via a different mode (not by a prophet or the Messiah). I think also the rise of science and medical technology may be affecting people’s opinons of what is or isn’t a miracle. We may have many miracles that people write off because of medical technology of the day (eventhough they may very well be miracles).

Either way, I don’t see how any of this would be incompatible with post #15.
not incompatible; the statement is supportive not antagonistic…

…and the reason why science does not accept miracles is because it seeks to explain everything through its temporal abilities–yet when it comes head to head with the unexplainanble it does not admit Divine intervension but simply ‘not explainable by science, yet.’ (ie: the Shroud of Turin)

Maran atha!

Angel
 
were in the OT does it say that?
Here are two particular passages that speak on this in the Old Testament, you can also find it in St. Matthew where Jesus responds to the disciples sent to Him by John the Baptist (Mt. 11):

"Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened,
the ears of the deaf unsealed,
then the lame shall leap like a deer
and the tongues of the dumb sing for joy; (Isaiah 35:5-6a)

The Spirit of the Lord Yahweh has been given to me,
for Yahweh has annointed me.
He has sent me to bring good news to the poor,
to bind up hearts that are broken;

to proclaim liberties to the captives,
freedom to those in prison; (Isaiah 61:1)

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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