Why be/ stay Catholic?

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To me, it comes down to the Real Presence. No one who truly believes that Jesus is in the Eucharist would ever leave the Catholic Church. Why would anyone give that up?
 
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Sherlock:
You are making an assumption that should not be made: people are responding to the original post, and not necessarily to you. Many posters answer the post without having seen the responses of others. You shouldn’t assume the worst of others.
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I am aware that people do not read every post, however the post to which I was responding didn’t seem to pertain to the orginal post nearly as closely as it did to mine. If I was in error, I apologise. I indeed should not jump to conclusions.

I note that you are not the poster that I quoted. Are you quite sure that I misunderstood him or her? Because if I am not mistaken, which only Tatum ergo would know, what have I done that was improper?

But I will apologise for this, I should never have brought up this issue in the middle of someone else’s thread. It has nothing to do with why a person should stay or be Catholic.
Sorry.
 
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reen12:
To me, Catholicism can’t seem to handle the
‘experience’ factor, in terms of faith.

Same is often dismissed as “emotionalism” “pride”
“stubborness”…instead of being seen for what it is…
an individual’s experience.
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Really? It can’t match the experience factor? What could be more profound and experiential than physically receiving Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament?

And doesn’t the Church sanction the charismatic renewal movement? Isn’t that quite a bit about experience?
 
laforec,

I’m an Anglican, so what you call “remaining Catholic” I would call “remaining in communion with the See of Rome.” And here’s why I think people should do that:

Unquestionably the See of Rome has rightful primacy within the Catholic Church. This is clear from the records of the early Church. Unity among Christians can only be obtained through union with Rome. Why would anyone want to give that up? Besides, your Communion has an excellent record for maintaining orthodoxy on the basics of the Faith. I’m not convinced that you are correct in every single teaching, but the points on which I think you are in error are relatively abstruse and debatable ones. I could very easily be wrong.

Having been brought up Protestant, I have never quite been able to persuade myself to submit to the See of Rome. But if I were already in communion with Rome, I would have no serious temptation to leave.

One final note–the default option for everyone should be to remain in the faith in which they were reared. The only exceptions are when you are genuinely convinced in the depths of your soul that your current church/religion is wrong and that something else is true. We should never start from the assumption that were are independent, neutral individuals floating around looking for the “best” church or religion. That’s one of the most destructive lies of modern culture.

Edwin
 
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cheddarsox:
Sherlock,

Allow me to introduce myself. I am an ex-Catholic who does believe in the real presence.

I am an ex-Catholic who neither pressures or expects the Catholic church to change its doctrines.

I lived, practiced, studied and followed the faith for decades.

I jump in when I feel my perspective has something to add to a discussion. I am a bit weary of people telling me that my problem is “I don’t understand the faith” or " I just want things my own way"

I thought you were the one who first brought up the subject of change…something about it being too bad that people don’t initiate change themselves…that they’d rather be on the receiving end.

I never requested the Catholic church change one iota for my comfort. Its mission here is not to make me happy. I accept that.

I don’t expect everyone to like what I have to say, or agree, or feel the same way, I just wish that people would grant me the respect of treating my experience as valid, not writing me off as uninformed or mean spirited, or lazy, or desirous of the church to sanction sin.

I am happy you are part of such a dynamic parish. I never intended to imply that Christ is not present in the hearts and lives of the people. However, in Catholicism, there is the idea that Christ is present in a more real, more wonderful, more worthy of worship way in the Blessed Sacrament. and receiving the sacrament does have a number of conditions that must be met which regularly alienates a percentage of believers from participating. Other faiths teach that the real presence of Christ is available to all, no matter their state, simply by calling out to Him. That is an attractive option, especially when one finds it to be true!

I realize this is a point you and I will not agree on. I am not trying to convince you, just adding my two cents to the discussion.

cheddar
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Thanks for your sincer reply. You will be in my prayers…

You are the exceptional ex-Catholic. Note, I did not say “all” in my categorizing of ex-Catholics’ attitudes, but you are the first of your kind that I’ve come across.

Yes, I did mention change in the context of a person intitiating action. I responded as I did because I wasn’t clear that you were refering to the same kind of “change” that I was, and thought that perhaps you meant a different kind of “change”. One of the reasons I may have thought that is that my experience has been so different than yours. I’ve had occasion to pop my head in my priest’s with a suggestion, and he has always been open to ideas.

Yes, I know that “Other faiths teach that the real presence of Christ is available to all” ---- as does Catholicism, in that sense of “real”. But the Real Presence in the Eucharist is unique, and yes, it is more Real, wonderful, and worthy of worship. But saying that does not degrade the other experiences of Jesus. It’s not a competition: stop looking at it that way. Jesus is not divided against Himself. As for not being able to partake in the Eucharist: well, your problem is with Scripture. Put differently, your problem is with God. The Church is merely the messenger, not the message, and you are shooting the messenger.

But thank you for your thoughtful posts. I appreciate your candor.
 
150 Reasons why I am Catholic

by Dave Armstrong (MORE BIBLICAL EVIDENCE FOR CATHOLICISM))
  1. Best One-Sentence Summary: I am convinced that the Catholic Church conforms much more closely to all of the biblical data, offers the only coherent view of the history of Christianity (i.e., Christian, apostolic Tradition), and possesses the most profound and sublime Christian morality, spirituality, social ethic, and philosophy.
  2. Alternate: I am Catholic because I sincerely believe, by virtue of much cumulative evidence, that Catholicism is true, and that the Catholic Church is the visible Church divinely-established by our Lord Jeus, against which the gates of hell cannot and will not prevail (Mt 16:18), thereby possessing an authority to which I feel bound in Christian duty to submit.
  3. Alternate 2: I left Protestantism because it was seriously deficient in its interpretation of the Bible (e.g., “faith alone” and many other “Catholic” doctrines—see evidences below), inconsistently selective in its espousal of various Catholic Traditions (e.g. the Canon of the Bible), inadequate in its ecclesiology, lacking a sensible view of Christian history (e.g., “Scripture along”), compromised morally (e.g., contraception, divorce), and unbiblically schismatic, anarchical, and relativistic. I don’t believe that Protestantism is all bad (not by a long shot), but these are some of the major deficiencies I eventually saw as fatal to the “theory” of Protestantism, over against Catholicism. All Catholics must regard baptized, Nicene, Calcedonian Protestants as Christians.
4 Catholicism isn’t formally divided and sectarian (Jn 17:20-23); Rom 16:17, 1 Cor 1:10-13).
  1. Catholic unity makes Christianity and Jesus more believable to the world (jn 17:23).
  2. Catholicism, because of its unified, complete, fully supernatural Christian vision, mitigates against secularization and humanism.
  3. Catholicism avoids an unbiblical individualism which undermines Christian community (e.g., 1 Cor 12:25-26).
  4. Catholicism avoids theological relativism, by means of dogmatic certainty and the centrality of the papacy.
  5. Catholicism avoids ecclesiological anarchism—one cannot merely jump to another denomination when some disciplinary measure or censure is called for.
  6. Catholicism formally prevents theological relativism which leads to uncertainties among Christian laypeople.
  7. Catholicism rejects the “State Church,” which has led to governments dominating Christianity rather then vice-versa.
  8. State Churches greatly influenced the rise of nationalism, which mitigated against universal equality and Christian universalism (i.e., Catholicism).
13 Unified Catholic Christendom (before the 16th century) had not been plagued by the tragic religious wars which in turn led to the “Enlightenment,” in which men rejected the hypocrisy of inter-Christian warfare and decided to become indifferent to religion rather than letting it guide their lives.
  1. Catholicism retains the elements of mystery, supernatural, and the sacred in Christianity, thus opposing itself to secularization, where the sphere of the religious in life becomes greatly limited.
  2. Protestant individualism led to the privatization of Christianity, whereby it is little respected in societal and political life, leaving the “public square” barren of Christian influence.
 
(Continued)
  1. The secular false dichotomy of “church vs. state” (or world) has led committed orthodox Christians, by and large, to withdraw from politics, leaving a void filled by pagans, cynics, the unscrupulous, and the power-hungry. Catholicism offers a framework in which to approach the state and civic responsibility.
  2. Protestantism leans too much on traditions of men. Every denomination stems from one Founder’s vision. As soon as two or more of these contradict each other, error is necessarily present.
  3. Protestant churches (especially evangelicals), are far too often guilty of putting their pastors on too high of a pedestal. In effect, every pastor becomes “pope,” to varying degrees (some are “super-popes”).
Because of this evangelical congregations often experience a severe crisis and/or split up when a pastor leaves, thus proving that their philosophy is overly man-centered, rather than God-centered.
  1. Protestantism, due to lack of real authority and dogmatic structure, is tragically prone to accommodation to the spirit of the age, and moral faddism.
  2. Catholicism retains apostolic succession, necessary to identify true Christian apostolic Tradition. It was the criterion of Christian truth used by the early Christians.
21.Many Protestants take a dim view towards Christian history in general, especially the years from 313 to 1517 (Luther’s arrival). This ignorance and hostility to Catholic Tradition leads to theological relativism, anti-Catholicism, and a constant, unnecessary process of “reinventing the wheel.”
  1. Protestantism from its inception was anti-Catholic, and largely remains so to this day (especially certain strains of evangelicalism). This is obviously wrong and unbiblical if Catholicism is indeed (Christian (fi it isn’t then—logically—nether is Protestantism, which inherited the bulk of its theology from Catholicism). The Catholic Church, on the other hand, is not anti-Protestant.
  2. The Catholic Chruch accepts the authority of the great ecumenical councils (see Acts 15) which defined and developed Christian doctrine (much of which Protestantism also accepts).
  3. Most Protestants do not have bishops, a Christian office which is biblical (1 Tim 3:1-2) and which has existed from the earliest Christian history and Tradition.
  4. Protestantism has no way of **settling doctrinal issues **definitively. At best, the individual Protestant can only take a head count of how many Protestant scholars, commentators, etc. take such-and-such a view on Doctrine X, Y, or Z. There is no unified Protestant Tradition.
(Continued)
 
Continued
  1. Protestantism arose in 1517, and is a “Johnny-come-lately” in the history of Christianity. Therefore it cannot possibly be the “restoration” of “pure”, “primitive” Christianity, since this is ruled out by the fact of its absurdly late appearance. Christianity must have historic continuity or it is not Christianity. Protestantism is necessarily a “parasite” of Catholicism, historically and doctrinally speaking.
  2. The widespread Protestant notion fo the “invisible church” is also novel in the history of Christianity and foreign to the Bible (Mt 5:14; 16:18), therefore untrue.
  3. When Protestant theologians speak of the teaching of early Christianity (e.g., when refuting “cults”0, they say “the Church taught…” (as it was then unified), but when they refer to the present they often instinctively and inconsistently refrain from such terminology, since universal teaching authority now clearly resides only in the Catholic Church.
  4. The Protestant principle of private judgment has created a milieu (especially in Protestant America) in which (invariably) man-centered “cults” such as Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, and Christian Science arise. The very notion that one can “start” a new, or “the true” Church is Protestant to the core.
30 The lack of a definitive teaching authority in Protestantism (as with the Catholic magisterium) makes many individual Protestants think that the) have a direct line to God, notwithstanding all of Christian Tradition and the history of biblical exegesis (a “Bible, Holy Spirit and me” mentality). Such people are generally under-educated theologically, unteachable, lack humility, and have no business making presumed “infallible” statements about the nature of Christianity.
  1. Evangelicalism’s “techniques” of evangelism are often contrived and manipulative, certainly not directly derived from the text of the Bible. Some even resemble brainwashing to a degree.
32 The gospel preached by too many evangelical Protestant evangelists and pastors is a truncated and abridged, individualistic and ear-tickling gospel, in effect merely “fire insurance” rather than the biblical gospel as proclaimed by the apostles.
  1. Evangelicalism often separates profound, life-transforming repentance and radical discipleship from its gospel message. The Lutheran Dietrich Bonhoeffer called this “cheap grace.”
34 The absence of the idea of submission to spiritual authority in Protestantism has leaked over into the civic arena, where the ideas of personal “freedom,” “rights,” and “choice” now dominate to such an extent that civic duty, communitarianism, and discipline are tragically neglected, to the detriment of a healthy society.
  1. Catholicism retains the sense of the sacred, the sublime, the holy, and the beautiful in spirituality. The ideas of altar, and “sacred space” are preserved. Many Protestant churches are no more than “meeting halls” or “gymnasiums” or “bam”-type structures. Most Protestants’ homes are more esthetically striking than their churches. Likewise, Protestants are often “addicted to mediocrity” in their appreciation of art, music, architecture, drama, the imagination, etc.
36 Protestantism has largely neglected the place of liturgy in worship (with notable exceptions such as Anglicanism and Lutheranism). This is the way Christians had always worshiped down through the centuries, and thus cannot be so lightly dismissed.

continued
 
continued

37 Protestantism tends to oppose matter and spirit, favoring the latter, and is somewhat influenced by Gnosticism or the Docetic heresy in this regard.
  1. Catholicism upholds the “incarnational principle,” wherein Jesus became flesh and thus raised flesh and matter to new spiritual heights.
  2. Protestantism greatly limits or disbelieves in sacramentalism, which is simply the extension of the incarnational principle and the belief that matter can convey grace. Some sects (e.g., Baptists, many pentecostals) reject all sacraments.
  3. Some Protestants’ excessive mistrust of the flesh (“carnality”) often leads to (in evangelicalism or fundamentalism) an absurd legalism (no dancing, drinking, card-playing, rock music, etc.).
  4. Many Protestants tend to separate life into categories of “spiritual” and “carnal,” as if God is not Lord of all of life. It forgets that all non-sinful endeavors are ultimately spiritual.
42 Protestantism has removed the Eucharist from the centir and focus of Christian worship services. Some Protestants observe it only monthly, or even quarterly; a few, not at all. This is against the Tradition of the early Church.
  1. Most Protestants accept a symbolic Eucharist, which is contrary to universal Christian Tradition up to 1517, and the Bible (Mt 26:26-8; In 6:47-63; 1 Cor 10:14-22; 11:23-30), which hold to the Real Presence (another instance of the antipathy to matter).
  2. Protestantism has virtually ceased to regard marriage as a sacrament, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Mt 19:4-5; 1 Cor 7: 14,39; Eph 5:25-33).
45 Protestantism has abolished the priesthood (Mt 18: 18) and the sacrament of ordination, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Acts 6:6; 14:22; 1 Tim 4: 14; 2 Tim 1:6).
  1. Catholicism retains the Pauline notion of the spiritual practicality of a celibate clergy (e.g., Mt 19:12, 1 Cor 7:8,27,32-3).
  2. Protestantism has largely rejected the sacrament of confirmation (Acts 8: 18, Heb 6:2-4), contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible.
  3. Many Protestants have denied infant baptism, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Acts 2:38-9; 16:15,33; 18:8; cf. 11:14; 1 Cor 1: 16; Co12: 11-12). Protestantism is divided into five major camps on the question of baptism.
  4. The great majority of Protestants deny baptismal regeneration, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Mk 16: 16; In 3 :5; Acts 2:38; 22: 16; Rom 6:3-4; I Cor 6: 11; Titus 3 :5).
  5. Protestants have rejected the sacrament of anointing of the sick (Extreme Unction / “Last Rites”), contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Mk 6:13; 1 Cor 12:9,30; Jas 5:14-15).
continued

I won’t post the whole list here. It is well worth buying the book for the list alone, although there is much, much, more there besides the list.

God Bless
 
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laforec:
Hello everyone,

and I would like to hear from you your main reasons why someone should be Catholic, or stay Catholic.
CHRIS
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Because!

😛
 
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