Why Can't Anyone Have A Different Opinion About The Holocaust?

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OneTrueCathApos said:
I noticed, as I had before Mr. Carnelian that you obviously have a problem with the Gospel of John who emphatically speaks about “The Jews who killed Him”. And so does every other Gospel. If you are so brainwashed with the thoughts that do not coincide with the Gospels, then I feel sorry for you. The Jewish people want you and all of us to think otherwise and I refuse to do that. Almost like a brainwashing. Oh, and I am not an anti-semite but will be labeled as such because I tend to speak the truth. But you will come back and say the church doesn’t teach this, but the church did in fact teach this in the earliest of years. Like I say, I have a right to think what I want as evidence from the NT.
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Are you sspx or sedavacanist?The Church NEVER officially taught that the Jews inherited the sin of those few Jews who orchestrated Christ’s crucifixtion.However cetain anti-semitic priests and bishops certainly and SINFULLY did so.European Passion plays were employed to foment hatred of “the perfidious Jew”.For someone who wrote the following beautiful post the other day,how can you spew this bile?

Originally Posted by OneTrueCathApos
Some people today (even committed Christians) are openly stating that the Catholic church and Catholic doctrine is not Christian, or even anti-Christian. These allegations are usually based on an incorrect understanding of what the Catholic church actually teaches.
As a result, Satan has been able to use this lack of understanding (both among Catholics and others) to divide Christians from one another and to divert their attention and energies away from proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ and advancing His Kingdom on earth.
The first step toward restoring the unity of Christians, which is God’s Will (John 17:21), and so necessary today, is for Christians to understand and respect one another and their beliefs. This does not mean that we will always agree, but it does mean that we will assume that any perceived errors in the life or doctrine of other Christians are honest errors that any good Christian could make.
Even if we do not agree in all points of doctrine, Catholics and other Christians do agree and proclaim together that Jesus Christ is Our Lord and Savior, even while we still are divided in our understanding of certain doctrines.
My prayer is that people will have a better understanding of the teachings and traditions of the Catholic church, so that Catholics and other Christians may grow together in unity in our Christian life and in our common proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Wonderful post.I also love your signature line.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
I noticed, as I had before Mr. Carnelian that you obviously have a problem with the Gospel of John who emphatically speaks about “The Jews who killed Him”. And so does every other Gospel. If you are so brainwashed with the thoughts that do not coincide with the Gospels, then I feel sorry for you. The Jewish people want you and all of us to think otherwise and I refuse to do that. Almost like a brainwashing. Oh, and I am not an anti-semite but will be labeled as such because I tend to speak the truth. But you will come back and say the church doesn’t teach this, but the church did in fact teach this in the earliest of years. Like I say, I have a right to think what I want as evidence from the NT.
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Yep. I win the shekel.

GKC
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
The Jews back then **DID NOT **represent me or anyone else. They represented themselves and their High Priests.
I’d love to break out the old slurs but I don’t have the time…😃
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So Christ came to die only for the Jews and their High Priests “back then”?He came to die for ALL of OUR sins.We crucified Christ by our sins and crucify Him daily by our sinfulness.

You may think that we are attacking and ganging up on you.We’re not.We are only trying to charitably correct an obviously devout and good Catholic who seems to have a bit of a personal blindness on this issue.
 
spoiltvictorian said:
I don’t know, man, it was pretty bad. I get annoyed when people don’t hate Stalin and Mao more than Hitler, but Hitler was pretty bad.
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True, Stalin killed many more than Hitler.

Also, I wonder of those “six million” how many were part-Jewish.
 
Soutane said:
Look,the President of IRAN denies the holocaust-that alone gives it irrefutable credence.It’s bad enough that an entire Race was targeted for extermination and that AT LEAST six million were kidnapped,robbed,raped,tortured,murdered and were gassed with an INSECTICIDE.But,then to DENY it even happened???No wonder the Jews absolutely freak at the merest hint of holocaust denial.
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It is said this denial has caused more friction in the mid-East than the Iran’s progress with nuclear weapons. I don’t know why he would do that except to goad them into a war.
 
Soutane said:
Are you sspx or sedavacanist?The Church NEVER officially taught that the Jews inherited the sin of those few Jews who orchestrated Christ’s crucifixtion.However cetain anti-semitic priests and bishops certainly and SINFULLY did so.European Passion plays were employed to foment hatred of “the perfidious Jew”.For someone who wrote the following beautiful post the other day,how can you spew this bile?

Originally Posted by OneTrueCathApos
Some people today (even committed Christians) are openly stating that the Catholic church and Catholic doctrine is not Christian, or even anti-Christian. These allegations are usually based on an incorrect understanding of what the Catholic church actually teaches.
As a result, Satan has been able to use this lack of understanding (both among Catholics and others) to divide Christians from one another and to divert their attention and energies away from proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ and advancing His Kingdom on earth.
The first step toward restoring the unity of Christians, which is God’s Will (John 17:21), and so necessary today, is for Christians to understand and respect one another and their beliefs. This does not mean that we will always agree, but it does mean that we will assume that any perceived errors in the life or doctrine of other Christians are honest errors that any good Christian could make.
Even if we do not agree in all points of doctrine, Catholics and other Christians do agree and proclaim together that Jesus Christ is Our Lord and Savior, even while we still are divided in our understanding of certain doctrines.
My prayer is that people will have a better understanding of the teachings and traditions of the Catholic church, so that Catholics and other Christians may grow together in unity in our Christian life and in our common proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Wonderful post.I also love your signature line.
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**This has to do with Christian unity, not the crucifixtion of Christ…good grief…🤷 **
 
I already knew I would beat up by saying what I had to say. I guess in some way I am like Bishop Williamson, speaking up against others who have their own opinion. Only I will not refute to what the Gospels say. It is what it is.
There are many people who will agree with the Gospels and myself with which both Pilate and the Jews killed Christ, but they are afraid to speak out about it. I did and yet I get beat up over it, and beat up by Christians who know the Gospels.
The High Priests and Pharisees and others, not the whole of the people put Christ to death for fear of the Romans should seize on their possesions, “If we let Him alone, said they, all will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away our place and nation.” (John 11:48).
But the same sin of putting Jesus Christ to death was the cause of their shortly after despoiled of everything by the Romans. “They feared they should lose temporal posessions.” Says St. Augustine, “and thought not of eternal life, and so lost both.” In trying to save their posessions, they lost their soul; the punishment came, and they lost both. Therefore it falls out with many; they lose their souls for the things of earth; but God often condemns them to beggary in this world, and reprobation in the next.
 
ProVobis said:
It is said this denial has caused more friction in the mid-East than the Iran’s progress with nuclear weapons. I don’t know why he would do that except to goad them into a war.
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Maybe because he’s an anti-semitic Jew hater who would crank those ovens up given the SLIGHTEST opportunity.

If the Jews lose Israel they are FINISHED as a people,and they know it.If Israel is EVER on the brink of defeat they will turn the sands of the Middle East into GLASS.I think they take NEVER AGAIN a little more literally than WE do.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Right because none of the Gospels blame the Jews. every paragraph is about the Romans, and how the Romans yelled to crucify Him, and how the Romans were the chief priests and the Pharisees, so I guess you are right. Not one Jew is mentioned throughout the whole of the Gospels with regards to the death of Christ. The Jews were the loving, gracious people of those days. They would never have anything to do with Jesus’s death. Not one hint of it. Not one.
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I am sensing some anger and sarcasm here. But I’m still not sure what this has to do with holocaust denial. Unless by having a different opinion about the holocaust, you mean something along the lines of it being a good thing?
 
ProVobis said:
True, Stalin killed many more than Hitler.

Also, I wonder of those “six million” how many were part-Jewish.
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I think that’s a bit of a non-sequitor.

A part Jew is not a Jew?I don’t think the Nazis made any distinction,nor should we.My father was a Protestant,my mother was a Catholic-does that make me part Catholic?I can assure you I am not.
 
Valke2 said:
I am sensing some anger and sarcasm here. But I’m still not sure what this has to do with holocaust denial. Unless by having a different opinion about the holocaust, you mean something along the lines of it being a good thing?
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Unfortunately,it ALL appears to be part and parcel of the same “blindness”
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
I already knew I would beat up by saying what I had to say. I guess in some way I am like Bishop Williamson, speaking up against others who have their own opinion. Only I will not refute to what the Gospels say. It is what it is.
There are many people who will agree with the Gospels and myself with which both Pilate and the Jews killed Christ, but they are afraid to speak out about it. I did and yet I get beat up over it, and beat up by Christians who know the Gospels. Sad.
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Of course the Romans, and the Jews who called for his death, were responsible for it. But you originally asked who crucified him.

The Romans.

I know that reminding you what you said is not a productive method of instruction, but it’s what I do.

GKC
 
Soutane said:
He’s joking.I wish that you were.
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I was of course joking. I can’t imagine a situation where I would be using the phrase “Roman controled media” in a discussion about Jesus and not be joking. I apologize to anyone if I inadvertently offended anyone. (well, almost anyone).
 
Neil_Anthony said:
There are all sorts of opinions that people will condemn you for. How about that “church group” who go to the funerals of military people who died in Iraq holding signs that imply that they deserved it because God hates America.
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Yes. The Jewish businessmen could very well have tried to undermine the German economy, very weak after the First World War but personally, I think the fact that Americans were killing other Americans during the Great Civil War (estimated 700,000) should be a more disturbing series of events.
 
Bringing out the "old slurs"would only thoroughly condemn you as a bigot and invite open ridicule and censure instead of the rather patient and judicious response you have received to date and place your state of Grace in jeopardy.Please pray to St Edith Stein for her intercession and prayers.
 
ProVobis said:
Yes. The Jewish businessmen could very well have tried to undermine the German economy, very weak after the First World War but personally, I think the fact that Americans were killing other Americans during the Great Civil War (estimated 700,000) should be a more disturbing series of events.
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???
 
Jharek is giving you sound advice-submit to will and teachings of the Church,which as a good Catholic you MUST DO.
 
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