Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

[JReducation]

I’m going to speculate here, because I’m not a bishop. But I believe there are several things to consider.

1. The large number of bishops did not speak out publicly against ND, probably because they knew that they did not have a canonical leg to stand on.
2. Some bishops may have felt that they were feeding the medial rather than stopping ND. No one wants to give the media more material to attack the Church.
3. There are some bishops that have major problems that they have to solve in their own dioceses. These ND issue could not have come at a worse time. The summer is when transfers are made. Beginning in January bishops have to begin to make the summer plans for transfers, parish consolidations, the opening of new parishes if needed, figure the budgets in this economic mess that we’re in. The issues of ND are internal issues of the university and the USCCB. George was already on top of it and so was the Superior General of the Holy Cross. Many bishops were very focussed on dealing with their dioceses in a time of money and personell shortage.
4. The bishops’ statement was put to the test by ND. The USCCB now knows that the statement has canonical glitches in it. They will probably sit down with canonists and work out the kinks in the statement. This is a good thing. We’re not always going to be successful on the first try. You perpect your rules and statements as you go along. I don’t believe that they’re going to let this drop. They’ll let ND go, but not the failure of their statement. They’ll work on it until they chisel it to where they think it will be effective.
5. The edited and revised statement may not be effective either, but nothing is ever learned until it is tried.
6. The Holy Father does not want to get involved in this. He has several good reasons. First, ND is not his university. It is a local problem, not a problem of the universal Church. Second, he is very busy with the Muslims and the Jews. This could not have come at a worse time for the Holy Father, when the relations between the Church, Muslims and Jews hangs on a thread. He’s not even deal with the SSPX. He gave that over to the Congregation of the Faith to deal with and to make decisions in his name.
7. The superiors of the Holy Cross have to come up with a good nominee for President of ND by next year. They have to submit the name or names to the Board and see which one the Board will hire. I don’t believe that they will allow Fr. Jenkins to postulate himself again. However, they can’t just pull him out without having another Holy Cross with a PhD or two, to propose. They have a binding contract with the Board to provide candidates for that office and the Board gets to choose. They will spend the next year thinking about who and tryign to persuade their religious to postulate themselves for the post. They can certainly order a religious to postulate himself for the post. But who wants to do that to another person? The person would be miserable, if he’s not interested in administrative work. That’s why religious always ask their brothers or sisters if they accept the election to superior. It’s not mandatory that they accept. No one wants some one who is going to do a poor job, because they’re unhappy.
8. When the Holy See finishes the investigation of the 68,000 American religious sisters, they will probably take on the religious men next. But they can only handle so much at a time. The USA is not the center of the Church. Right now, the Vatican does not even consider us to be as high on the list of Catholic countries. The Latin Americans and the Africans are. They need more attention. There are more Catholics there and less resources.
9. The Vatican is going to focus more on the three Catholic Universities that it has in the United States: The Catholic University of America, the Josephenum College of Theology, and The Pontifical University of Puerto Rico. The Congregation on Education and the commitee on institutes of higher learning have several hundred of these schools to oversee. Three are in the USA. I’m guessing that they have to be careful not to over extend themselves either and allow some of these problems to be resolved locally and internally.

None of the above suggest that abortion is no longer a focus. What they suggest is that there are many issues to be dealt with and some work that has to be done to move our cause along.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[BobCatholic]

Actually, I’m not being dismissive, and if I came across as such, I apologize.

I’m just saying the root cause of what is going on in ND. The eternal 1960’s syndrome.

 

[Darryl1958]

As I read your posted reponse to Darryl, I got the impression that you were being dismissive of his position. And, while his assessment of Obama being shrewd is right on the money - I too think Darryl is in error about abortion not remaining an important issue.

Is there such a thing as a Catholic vote when it comes ot the issue of abortion?
Frankly, I am quite certain that there is not.

Just as a comparison, I can see where there is a definite Hispanic vote in America on the issue of immigration, and that is where that vote would go to vis-a-vis abortion.

That is where that vote did go to.

I am not blaming ( or singling out) Hispanics. I am only giving a well-known example of where the issue of abortion lies with Catholics in general. Other Catholics have other issues, but abhorrence of the murder of babies is not one of them.

Really, in many Catholic internet discussion groups, my use of the word ‘murder’ in this context would in itself be considered more provocative than a policy of ending a million lives a year.
To internalize the Church’s teaching, to really accept it as true, would have to have emotional repercussions. Frenzy would be at least understandable, if not entirely useful.
I compared (or linked) the issue of Father Jenkins with the issue of pederastry earlier on.
It is useful to do this again.
There is real frenzy among virtually all Catholics on this issue of priest abusing altar boys. There is not 60-40 split.

All are equally and fully sickened by this scandal.

On this issue of abortion, the emotion unification of all Catholics is not the same.
There is no ‘we’ on the issue of abortion.

Use of words such as ‘vile’, ‘depravity’, ‘abominable’ etc. on the issue of pedastery is acceptable in all Catholic circles. Frenzied response is understood and offered comfort and sanctuary.
Use of the word ‘murder’ on the issue of abortion is consideredinflammatory, ‘not very useful’, etc.

We are all members of the same secular society. We have all internalized the secular teachings on both issues.

I don’t think I am being cynical, or pessimistic or even angry or dismissive of Church rules.

I think I am just focusing on the reality, even as it is being expressed here.

Politically speaking, even if the importance of an issue is divided 40-60, the issue cannot really exist politically. Idealists will only sacrifice so many elections before they get tired or running uphill, or simply drop the issue in order to get other ideals into the political arena.

If nothing else, this throws the ball back into the court of the Bishops. Honestly now… 88 got involved in opposing Obama … this is a pretty small number to actually make some kind of movement to support a position that they themselves took.

88 out of …what? Maybe 200, or 225 maybe.
What is that, a 40-60 split?

Bishops were raised in the same secular society that we all were raised in.

No easy answers here - but, from my view, abortion is murder of the innocent and as Catholics we either are focused on protecting them or we are just out to lunch in the ‘Cafeteria Catholic’ area.

Yes.

 

[SIb4G]

With the Obama event, Notre Dame’s high profile got even higher. Lots of controversial (or bad) publicity can be a good thing. Notre Dame feels that it is on the right side of this controversy (witness the “standing ovations”) and, that being so, all the additional attention, it believes, will redound to its benefit: more grants, more donors, more applicants, more TV audience… If it even cares, offending 80+ bishops and millions of pro-life Catholics is, simply, the cost of doing business.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Darryl1958,

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

When it comes to my question about the 88 bishops - I was impressed with Brother JR’s response about the USCCB not having a canonical leg to stand on with their policy. To be honest, I was a bit shocked when I read that … (maybe, I am just easily shocked… but, I had expected better from the group! Honest, if you are going to come up with a policy it certainly is very destructive to see it publicly challenged and the policy makers have to retreat and reformulate a more canonically appropriate directive.

Is there such a thing as a Catholic vote when it comes ot the issue of abortion?
Frankly, I am quite certain that there is not.

Just as a comparison, I can see where there is a definite Hispanic vote in America on the issue of immigration, and that is where that vote would go to vis-a-vis abortion.

That is where that vote did go to.

Honest to God, while most things were never easy… NOTHING is simply anymore.

God bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Slb4G,

Ah, “…the cost of doing business…” - I really think you have hit the nail on the head! I, too, share a similar opinion - and car hardly wait for their choice of speakers (and honorary degree winners) come May 2010!

With the Obama event, Notre Dame’s high profile got even higher. Lots of controversial (or bad) publicity can be a good thing. Notre Dame feels that it is on the right side of this controversy (witness the “standing ovations”) and, that being so, all the additional attention, it believes, will redound to its benefit: more grants, more donors, more applicants, more TV audience… If it even cares, offending 80+ bishops and millions of pro-life Catholics is, simply, the cost of doing business.

God bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Brother JR,

Thank you for again clairifying this very complex issue.

I am certainly hoping that the US Catholic Bishops get their act together, come up with a unified voice that has enough canonical legs to stand on that a centipede would be envious!

I’m going to speculate here, because I’m not a bishop. But I believe there are several things to consider.

1. The large number of bishops did not speak out publicly against ND, probably because they knew that they did not have a canonical leg to stand on.
2. Some bishops may have felt that they were feeding the medial rather than stopping ND. No one wants to give the media more material to attack the Church.
3. There are some bishops that have major problems that they have to solve in their own dioceses. These ND issue could not have come at a worse time. The summer is when transfers are made. Beginning in January bishops have to begin to make the summer plans for transfers, parish consolidations, the opening of new parishes if needed, figure the budgets in this economic mess that we’re in. The issues of ND are internal issues of the university and the USCCB. George was already on top of it and so was the Superior General of the Holy Cross. Many bishops were very focussed on dealing with their dioceses in a time of money and personell shortage.
4. The bishops’ statement was put to the test by ND. The USCCB now knows that the statement has canonical glitches in it. They will probably sit down with canonists and work out the kinks in the statement. This is a good thing. We’re not always going to be successful on the first try. You perpect your rules and statements as you go along. I don’t believe that they’re going to let this drop. They’ll let ND go, but not the failure of their statement. They’ll work on it until they chisel it to where they think it will be effective.
5. The edited and revised statement may not be effective either, but nothing is ever learned until it is tried.
6. The Holy Father does not want to get involved in this. He has several good reasons. First, ND is not his university. It is a local problem, not a problem of the universal Church. Second, he is very busy with the Muslims and the Jews. This could not have come at a worse time for the Holy Father, when the relations between the Church, Muslims and Jews hangs on a thread. He’s not even deal with the SSPX. He gave that over to the Congregation of the Faith to deal with and to make decisions in his name.
7. The superiors of the Holy Cross have to come up with a good nominee for President of ND by next year. They have to submit the name or names to the Board and see which one the Board will hire. I don’t believe that they will allow Fr. Jenkins to postulate himself again. However, they can’t just pull him out without having another Holy Cross with a PhD or two, to propose. They have a binding contract with the Board to provide candidates for that office and the Board gets to choose. They will spend the next year thinking about who and tryign to persuade their religious to postulate themselves for the post. They can certainly order a religious to postulate himself for the post. But who wants to do that to another person? The person would be miserable, if he’s not interested in administrative work. That’s why religious always ask their brothers or sisters if they accept the election to superior. It’s not mandatory that they accept. No one wants some one who is going to do a poor job, because they’re unhappy.
8. When the Holy See finishes the investigation of the 68,000 American religious sisters, they will probably take on the religious men next. But they can only handle so much at a time. The USA is not the center of the Church. Right now, the Vatican does not even consider us to be as high on the list of Catholic countries. The Latin Americans and the Africans are. They need more attention. There are more Catholics there and less resources.
9. The Vatican is going to focus more on the three Catholic Universities that it has in the United States: The Catholic University of America, the Josephenum College of Theology, and The Pontifical University of Puerto Rico. The Congregation on Education and the commitee on institutes of higher learning have several hundred of these schools to oversee. Three are in the USA. I’m guessing that they have to be careful not to over extend themselves either and allow some of these problems to be resolved locally and internally.

None of the above suggest that abortion is no longer a focus. What they suggest is that there are many issues to be dealt with and some work that has to be done to move our cause along.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

God bless

 

[SIb4G]

Hi, Slb4G,

Ah, “…the cost of doing business…” - I really think you have hit the nail on the head! I, too, share a similar opinion - and car hardly wait for their choice of speakers (and honorary degree winners) come May 2010!

God bless

Tom—No doubt Obama’s race was a key factor in the decision, especially considering Hesburgh’s background. Perhaps May 2010 it will be Sebelius, as a great exemplar of the womans’ movement!!

Kathleen Sebelius

 

[mdgspencer]

Does the Church in the United States accept abortion as some say here? Abortion was made legal in 1972 by Roe versus Wade. Catholics are still fighting it almost 40 years later. In fact, they are fighting it even more than before, including the bishops, which makes me proud of my church. There are some renegade Catholics, that is true, and right in Congress. But Notre Dame caused great indignation against Catholics. If anyone thinks not, read what posters on this thread say. The Church and its people will as soon accept abortion as they will adultery and other violations of the 10 commandments, including, obviously here, thou shall not kill.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Does the Church in the United States accept abortion as some say here? Abortion was made legal in 1972 by Roe versus Wade. Catholics are still fighting it almost 40 years later. In fact, they are fighting it even more than before, including the bishops, which makes me proud of my church. There are some renegade Catholics, that is true, and right in Congress. But Notre Dame caused great indignation against Catholics. If anyone thinks not, read what posters on this thread say. The Church and its people will as soon accept abortion as they will adultery and other violations of the 10 commandments, including, obviously here, thou shall not kill.

Your post was fine until the last sentence. The Church will never accept those things, though some of the sons and daughters of the Church already do, the Church never will.

 

[mdgspencer]

Perhaps my post wasn’t clear. The Church will never accept abortion and Catholics will never stop fighting it, as the posts here evidence. In fact, abortion violates one of the 10 commandments, though shall not kill.

Your post was fine until the last sentence. The Church will never accept those things, though some of the sons and daughters of the Church already do, the Church never will.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Perhaps my post wasn’t clear. The Church will never accept abortion and Catholics will never stop fighting it, as the posts here evidence. In fact, abortion violates one of the 10 commandments, though shall not kill.

Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[JReducation]

There is no way on God’s green earth that the Church will ever accept abortion under any circumstance or yield to any political authority on this issue, neither in the United States or any other nation.

Even as we post here, Catholics and other people of faith who are not Catholics are looking for humane and legal ways to do away with abortion.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[elts1956]

Jenkins won’t be fired and he shouldn’t be. Like every recent NDU president before him, he invited the President to the commencement. Every recent president has been invited, and Jenkins did not break with that tradition. Notre Dame is a private university and Jenkins reports to his Board, which apparently agrees with his decision. Although this is not adequately represented on CA forums, most Catholics do not agree with you that Jenkins should be fired and Notre Dame punished. Jenkins is not a clown – he is a leader, and he won’t give in to pressure from right-wing Catholics to turn Catholicism into a one-issue religious sect that shrinks from engagement with those who disagree with us. I applaud his decision. I also applaud Obama for a remarkable speech, one of his best. Obama is willing to engage in reasoned, fair-minded dialogue and to find common ground on which to move forward together. That should be our desire as well.

May we see the source of your poll you took to prove this assertion? What percentage of Catholics did you find who are living in your alternate universe with you?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Brother JR,

This is the point that needs to be reinforced in multiple ways - maybe the three Catholic Universities would want to consider this topic for their commencement speaker - and give an honorary doctorate for those who have stood up and are being counted as protectors of the unborn.

There are other ways of getting NDU’s attention.

God bless

There is no way on God’s green earth that the Church will ever accept abortion under any circumstance or yield to any political authority on this issue, neither in the United States or any other nation.

Even as we post here, Catholics and other people of faith who are not Catholics are looking for humane and legal ways to do away with abortion.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[elts1956]

Hi, Brother JR,

This is the point that needs to be reinforced in multiple ways - maybe the three Catholic Universities would want to consider this topic for their commencement speaker - and give an honorary doctorate for those who have stood up and are being counted as protectors of the unborn.

There are other ways of getting NDU’s attention.

God bless

I guess I have missed a post. What 3 Catholic Universities ae you writing about? I have read the names of a couple which folks claim stick to Church doctrine, but I didn’t write down their names. Thanks.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Elts1956,

I failed you on this one … I could not find them…

I guess I have missed a post. What 3 Catholic Universities ae you writing about? I have read the names of a couple which folks claim stick to Church doctrine, but I didn’t write down their names. Thanks.

Sorry - I bet someone else on this thread will provide us with the names and make our day!

God bless,

 

[Cinette]

THANK YOU!

You must be pro-abortion also!

 

[Robert_Calimer]

Com-on folks, chill a little. So you say the speech wasn’t a dialogue, OK that was a misscall on the part of (adowcday). I was not in favor of the invite at first, but the fact is that the speech was nothing short of diplomaticly renmarkable.

To be Catholic is to be against abortion ( and I agree ). That is heard loud and clear, so stop the antiabortion chest pounding and look at the real reasons behind the invite. To open a dialogue that will invoke peace, diplomacy and understanding. This is good for the church not bad. We may be able to win some over by being understanding and good listeners.

Did Jesus not break bread with the tax collector ?

Peace be with you,

Guido ---------- Go Penn State ----------

 

[Cinette]

Father Jenkins can be fired, but he would have to be fired by the Board of Trustees. I work at a traditionally Catholic school where a dissenting nun was made president several years ago. I finally have decided that the Board of Trustees accept her views, and that they have no problem with them. That may well be the case at Notre Dame too. I wonder in fact if many of the Board at Notre Dame are not Catholics at all as is the case at my own university.If he is fired it would be since the discontent among the Catholic public with his honoring an abortion President did not die out and Notre Dame faced losing students and less in donations because of it.
Some people believe that disagreement over this invitation is simply a matter of opinion. The Vatican and the U.S. bishops have both said and insisted that pro-abortion politicians should not be honored in this way by Catholic schools. It may be that those posters here that believe that it is all-right to honor President Obama in this way are not Catholics, which I would understand, however, even then they should realize that Father Jenkins is rejecting Catholic teaching when he honored the President in this way.

Does Fr Jenkins not have a superior of his Order who can discipline him and remove him from the University and send him to a monastery here he can reflect and do penance for his sins?