Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scoobyshme
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thanks MichaelTDoyle for the reply. It is your opinion as is mine. I am not here in this Forum to be instructed to seriously pray the Rosary, nor am I here to state that to anyone. You utilise the phrase …the debate is one of differences of opinion than that of ripping a child from his mother’s womb and throwing him in the garbage. For this I do not and will not speak like this. We are all human beings in this world and sinners as well. And we are able to debate. We are also here to show our love to our brothers and sisters in Christ here and to all around us. Again, I do not need to be told to pray the Rosary seriously. I do it for my own spiritual life. To you my brother in Christ, Godspeed.
My reply is advocating adherence to Church teaching. It is not just my opinion. That’s the point of those opposing honoring somone expanding access and availability to abortion and thereby blurring the moral depravity of such an act.

We must resolutely oppose abortion with good means.

If you cannot even face the bald facts of what an abortion is in words, how can you make a judgement about it? Look how long I have been lurking here on these forums. I do not enjoy posting confrontational, but plain speech about this issue has become a spritual work of mercy with all of the rhettoric used tthat leads people to think sin is not sin.

I am glad you pray for yourself. I am asking you to pray for understanding on this issue. It is not about politics, but about obeying the Commandments. I ask myself to make the very same prayer.

You are providing cover for those who are promoting killing children in their mother’s womb by phrasing this issue as political, by making it seem as if abortion is an issue of dialogue as opposed to an intrinsically evil act. Please stop and join the fight to awaken hearts and minds and let more children grow up to glorify God.

Jesus, have mercy on us.
 
And as a priest he servers God first, not man you can’t have it both ways
 
TCM22
There were some wonderful changes after Vatican II, but reading these postings has convinced me that there are many who still resist those changes. *They still believe *that outside the Church there is no salvation, still disrespect Protestantism, and still hold fast to a close-minded and often superstition version of Catholicism. Fortunately, there also are powerful forces within the Church, including millionjs of loyal mass-attending Catholics, who are wonderful Christians and have cast aside former prejudices against all faiths not their own.
This is slanderous. Who are these faithful Catholics who oppose Vatican II in this thread? Point it out specifically. Who is close minded? Is it close minded now to oppose abortion and be obedient to the Bishops?

Cast aside former prejudices against all other faiths not their own? What prejudices? What does this mean? The Church has fought heresies from the begining. Do you think the fullness of truth is found in other religions? even in other Christian denominations? I believe in one holy, Catholic and apostolic Church. I am pretty sure that is Church teaching.

Do you believe there IS salvation outside the Church? Do you realize that is contrary to Church teaching? That if people who are not officially Catholic are saved they are saved through the mystical body of the Church? Do you think that is rhetoric or simply opinion?
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp

How are people in this thread demonstrating superstion?

Sadly and frustratingly to me, your post is slanderous and accuses people on this thread opposing you of not being faithful Catholics. In the interest of truth, please either retract or specifically justify these allegations. You are creating a false and bigoted straw man which serves to divide people from adhering to Church teaching.
 
Good on you Michaeltdoyle. 👍
I love hearing the TRUTH. :extrahappy:

Superstition Ha! Roy55 watch out for that black cat 😃
 
I support bringing Obama to Notre Dame University (I do not support him getting an honorary degree). I did not vote for Obama (although I could have because the Church taught that I could vote for Obama as long as I did not vote for him based upon his stance on abortion. If this were not true, then I would not have been able to vote for McCain who is for the death penalty). I do understand the people that were angry that Obama was coming to a Catholic University. He is strongly pro-choice, and who knows what he might say. However, I think it is important to note that he is the president, and while he is wrong in his beliefs he still deserves respect and love. We are called to love everyone, including Barack Obama. Again, I am not an Obama Catholic, my facebook notes that attack his policies prove that, and I am definatly pro-life (a true pro-lifer, meaning I am against capital punishment and abortion).
The point is that both sides have their valid arguments. Obama, who has beliefs that are opposite of the Roman Catholic Church, spoke at a Catholic university’s graduation ceremony. On the other side, too, is the fact that he is a great man (in the sense of his position in society). I think that when Fr. Jenkins invited Pres. Obama, he invited him not because of the president’s beliefs, but because of who the man is. When people got upset over Obama coming to the university it was because they were upset with the man’s beliefs.

thank you guys.I apologize if any of that sounded mean, that is never my intention. In the same way, though, please try to make any of your comments regarding what I’ve said loving and polite too.

—Brett Adams, a convert
KofC #4410
 
A genuine Catholic is obedient to the Church. Yes, I speak for all genuine Catholics. It should bother you as a self professed Catholic that you are in agreement with the Protestants postings as opposed to those who post in obedience to the Church.
Who are you to know what I think and believe? All I said is that you don’t speak for me! I swear, you people are beginning resemble nut cases. You make assumptions based on no evidence at all.

You nor anyone else defines my faith or what I think and believe. Only God! Not you, Marsha Adams.
 
Who are you to know what I think and believe? All I said is that you don’t speak for me! I swear, you people are beginning resemble nut cases. You make assumptions based on no evidence at all.

You nor anyone else defines my faith or what I think and believe. Only God! Not you, Marsha Adams.
She is merely stating a fact. Genuine Catholics are obedient to the teachings of the Church. If you find yourself in agreement with non Catholics and in opposition to Church teaching on matters of faith and morals, then you really are not functioning as a genuine Catholic. That is not to imply that we should all be unthinking robots who swallow what the Church teaches. No reasonable person would advocate that. However, when you find yourself in opposition, the instinct needs to be one of prayer and an sincere effort to learn what the Church asks us to believe.
 
Maybe Fr.Jenkins believes that the President of Notre Dame has a lifetime position like a supreme court justice, who only leaves at their own personal discretion.

But he forgot the most important element of all things.
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life…I like Dr.Marcellino’s take on it. crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/566/Way__Truth_and_Life.html

So there is only one Way, one Truth, one Life, one Priest who offers a perfect sacrifice for sins. So how can it be that we are called a royal priesthood (I Peter 2)? How can it be that we who believe in Him are to do greater works than he? (John 14:11-12)

I guess Fr.Jenkins has forgotten that very important part of being a priest who leads a Catholic university. Because his colloborative decision with the Notre Dame board to give Obama a honorary degree certainly was done to flaunt against this very basic teaching of our church.
 
…I guess Fr.Jenkins has forgotten that very important part of being a priest who leads a Catholic university. Because his colloborative decision with the Notre Dame board to give Obama a honorary degree certainly was done to flaunt against this very basic teaching of our church.
Exactly!!!
 
WANNER47
Code:
Too late to argue. Must get to bed.

 But as for Judas, I've always had some questions about him. To begin with, someone had to betray Christ to fulfill prophesy. It strikes me that God may have planned his betrayal and the guy had little choice. I believe that Coptic Christians have him as a saint because it was in part through him that salvation came to the rest of us. Moreover, the poor man was so penitent that he took his own life. I suspect that God may have had mercy on him as he certainly proved himself remorseful. There's more to say, but 'nuff for now.

 I praise God that He is filled with love and mercy. That's good for me, and I suspect for you as well. Otherwise, hm.... none of us would someday sing with all the saints in glory. I'm looking forward to it, but do hope I can keep on key by then.
Just because God uses evil and brings good out of it in His plan, does not make evil good. What Judas did was evil. God knew that Judas would betray Him and used that evil in His plan. This does not negate the fact that Judas had free will and still chose evil.

In a similar way Obama is embracing the evil that is abortion, and everyone who knows that needs to not mince words about it.

Also, I would not call Judas penitent. Rather, I would say he despaired. Instead of turning to God and begging forgiveness, he took his own life, turning away from God’s mercy. It was an act of cowardice and hopelessness.
 
Hi, Bret,

First let me welcome you as a convert - and then applaud your action and interest by joining the KofC! I must confess, however, that I found your positions a bit puzzeling as a Catholic - at least for me. Let me go over them and tell you where I was having a problem.
I support bringing Obama to Notre Dame University (I do not support him getting an honorary degree).
What is the basis for being in agreement for President Obama to be the commencement speaker - but, in disagreement with him receiving an honorary doctorate of law degree? Both actions are clearly condemned by the US Catholic Bishops. Please understand, this was not an open debate where the President was being invited to publicly defend his positions on not only pro-abortion - but, as an IL Senator, on infantacide (the murdering of a living infant that somehow escaped the death in the womb planned for it!) Make no mistake about it, President Obama has a truly unique view of when life is to be protected.
He is strongly pro-choice, and who knows what he might say. However, I think it is important to note that he is the president, and while he is wrong in his beliefs he still deserves respect and love. We are called to love everyone, including Barack Obama.
I realize this is not Politically Correct - but, I think ‘Pro-Choice’ is simply part of the abortion industry’s spin through its marketing department. If it were really ‘Pro-Choice’ then they would be having some wanted births actually taking place - these guys need to accurately identified by their simple intended outcome ; they are ‘Pro-Death’. Actually, this part about not knowing what this President would say is really quite wrong - only because this President is so predictable. This is a very intelligent man - but, honestly, did you really think he would say something that would be worse then endorsing the murdering of those who survived their own botched abortion? Do you think he would betray one of his core support groups? What else is left? When to blow away his smoke screen, we find that he honestly recognizes that there is no ‘middle ground’ between life and death - his position, however, is to dismiss those who favor life as extreem and un-compromising. Not much dialogue there.

My third concern is…
However, I think it is important to note that he is the president, and while he is wrong in his beliefs he still deserves respect and love. We are called to love everyone, including Barack Obama. Again, I am not an Obama Catholic, my facebook notes that attack his policies prove that, and I am definatly pro-life (a true pro-lifer, meaning I am against capital punishment and abortion).
This issue is not to hate the President, or in any way not love him as we are called to do as Christians. What we are called to do is NOT ENDORSE his policies that there is no unborn life that can not be snuffed out, that there is no place for someone from abstaing from sex until they are married and that even if born - there is no right to you not being snuffed out if your Mother wanted it that way, but the doctor failed in his effort to murder her child. President Obama’s positions in these matter were endorsed by ND University when they called him out to give the commencement address. The President’s por-death policies were further endorsed when this so-called Catholic University defied the US Catholic Bishops and awarded him an honorary degree - in law of all things!

And finally…
The point is that both sides have their valid arguments. Obama, who has beliefs that are opposite of the Roman Catholic Church, spoke at a Catholic university’s graduation ceremony. On the other side, too, is the fact that he is a great man (in the sense of his position in society). I think that when Fr. Jenkins invited Pres. Obama, he invited him not because of the president’s beliefs, but because of who the man is. When people got upset over Obama coming to the university it was because they were upset with the man’s beliefs.
If you honestly think that President Obama has a valid argument about the inconvenient life being a life that can be snuffed out, then in my opinion you have stepped outside of the formal teachings of the Catholic Church. Honest: not everyone who takes the opposite point of view has a valid point of view. There are those who say that God exists - does it make sense to say that someone else has a valid point of view that there is no God? If someone stated that, “The building is on fire!” would it be a valid point of view to say, “No, the building is not on fire!” Either life is the most important item that Christ addressed to His followers, or Christ did not understand what life is all about. The only thing that can be said about those who take an opposite opinion is that this is where they want to be - it does not mean that they are right, have a valid point, or even believe it themselves.

Not to be too outrageous, but I am think that there were people in the early days of Nazi Germany who thought that Hitler was a great man who had risen by his own efforts to lead Germany out of the oppressive shackles of WW I punishments by the victors. If we just concentrate on these qualities of character, we come to the realization that this is simply not enogh if we are going to thoroughly understand this man and his impact on history.

God bless.
 
My reply is advocating adherence to Church teaching. It is not just my opinion. That’s the point of those opposing honoring somone expanding access and availability to abortion and thereby blurring the moral depravity of such an act.

We must resolutely oppose abortion with good means.

If you cannot even face the bald facts of what an abortion is in words, how can you make a judgement about it? Look how long I have been lurking here on these forums. I do not enjoy posting confrontational, but plain speech about this issue has become a spritual work of mercy with all of the rhettoric used tthat leads people to think sin is not sin.

I am glad you pray for yourself. I am asking you to pray for understanding on this issue. It is not about politics, but about obeying the Commandments. I ask myself to make the very same prayer.

You are providing cover for those who are promoting killing children in their mother’s womb by phrasing this issue as political, by making it seem as if abortion is an issue of dialogue as opposed to an intrinsically evil act. Please stop and join the fight to awaken hearts and minds and let more children grow up to glorify God.

Jesus, have mercy on us.
Let me reiterate this to you. Have I once actually said that I have made a judgement about abortion? NO. Have I advocated our President of his views on abortion? NO. You seem to be reading between the lines here. And I have seen that in your replies to other forum debaters as well. Don’t tell me Michael that you are one who protests at abortion clinics, like the right wing Republicans do? Don’t tell me that you are trying to force your agenda down peoples throats. From your replies, you seem like an honest individual who has a zest for life and the unborn. It is the unborn who I value as well. You are quick to judge for what I state or do not state. I am here to debate. Healthy as it is. However, I will let you know exactly what irks me. Stop trying to state you do not enjoy confrontational replies to people because you do enjoy doing it.
 
Who are you to know what I think and believe? All I said is that you don’t speak for me! I swear, you people are beginning resemble nut cases. You make assumptions based on no evidence at all.

You nor anyone else defines my faith or what I think and believe. Only God! Not you, Marsha Adams.
To you Pipntisha - I am with you here. Marsha Adams only speaks her mind and we should respect that, even though she doesn’t. Like you, I feel there are basket cases trolling this forum and trying to force down our throats their beliefs. As far as a 'genuine" Catholic, I certainly do not want that title. Too much drama here. I am a Catholic and that is final. I do not need to put other words or phrases before the word Catholic. God only knows how you and I adhere to our faith. And this is what is important in our spiritual lives. Take care…
 
A genuine Catholic is obedient to the Church. Yes, I speak for all genuine Catholics. It should bother you as a self professed Catholic that you are in agreement with the Protestants postings as opposed to those who post in obedience to the Church.
Hello Marsha! By the way, who gives you the right to state that you speak for all “genuine” Catholics? What you need to do is realize that you state you are putting down Protestants. Are we not as Catholics or 'genuine" Catholics as you put it - to embrace a respect for others like the Protestants?
 
nycjtcrane;5263069]Let me reiterate this to you.
Okay, but I will respond, not because I enjoy confrontation, but because there is Church teaching and it does impact the world today and Obama is promoting abortion. We need to be clear. We cannot read each other’s or Obama’s mind. We can see his actions and his statements.
Have I once actually said that I have made a judgement about abortion? NO. Have I advocated our President of his views on abortion? NO. You seem to be reading between the lines here.
You wrote this:
To simply try to deny the Leader of the Free World his acceptance to speak at commencement; just reflects how distant your heart is and how true right wing you have become
Obama is pro abortion. He was being honored by Notre Dame. This is in direct defiance of the USCCB. Supporting this puts your heart in direct defiance.
The President of the U.S. is wrong: Abortion is not an issue of debate, but settled morality. The issue now is ecumenical–changing hearts and minds to this intrinsic evil. EVIL. Fulll stop on that word: Abortion is always and everywhere EVIL. We (You and I as Catholics are duty bound to oppose it with good means)

I am truly glad you do not support abortion. I want you to have a zest for opposing it too 🙂

I do not enjoy being confrontational–or if there is some part of me that does, I reject it. It is a work of mercy to post what I know is difficult to read and will result in yet another post that will require me to post again. This uses a good deal of my time. You are doing what you accuse me of doing: attempting to read my heart.
And I have seen that in your replies to other forum debaters as well. Don’t tell me Michael that you are one who protests at abortion clinics, like the right wing Republicans do?
You keep thinking this is a Republican issue or a political issue. I am proud to say I have prayed at the abortion places. The people there are not right wing republicans, they are Catholics and we pray the Rosary while we are there. I began practicing my Catholicism late in life and this issue was one I was ambivalent about. I was moved from ambivalence on this issue because of solitary prayer of the Rosary in my home. The gravity of the evil hit me: the physical facts of it hit me. I contrasted abortion with my love for Christ, that every man is in the image of God and God was an embryo. Jesus, my Lord and Saviour. While I have political views, if you still think I see this as political, I don’t know what else in my life I can tell you more plainly that it is not. If the Pro-Life positions of the candidates McCain and Obama were reversed in the last election I would have voted for Obama, regardless of my strong disagreement with his rhetoric and other policies. This issue trumps others. I am a reluctant one issue voter.
Don’t tell me that you are trying to force your agenda down peoples throats.
Force? If force means prayer, witness and talking and writing, Yes! If my agenda is Christ’s. Yes. Yes. There are not many issues the Church, Christ’s representative on earth, state are intrinsically evil, I am trying to pray and witness and persuade any heart that is even a slightly cracked open on this.
 
Hi, Nycjtcrane,

In my opinion, it looks like more heat then light is being generated here…😃

You know, I really do not hear anything about “left wing Democrats” … does such a group exist? I think so, but they certainly miss out on a lot of public attention and scrutiny!
Let me reiterate this to you. Have I once actually said that I have made a judgement about abortion? NO. Have I advocated our President of his views on abortion? NO. You seem to be reading between the lines here. And I have seen that in your replies to other forum debaters as well. Don’t tell me Michael that you are one who protests at abortion clinics, like the right wing Republicans do? Don’t tell me that you are trying to force your agenda down peoples throats. From your replies, you seem like an honest individual who has a zest for life and the unborn. It is the unborn who I value as well. You are quick to judge for what I state or do not state. I am here to debate. Healthy as it is. However, I will let you know exactly what irks me. Stop trying to state you do not enjoy confrontational replies to people because you do enjoy doing it.
In my opinion, Michael’s statement that:

You are providing cover for those who are promoting killing children in their mother’s womb by phrasing this issue as political, by making it seem as if abortion is an issue of dialogue as opposed to an intrinsically evil act. Please stop and join the fight to awaken hearts and minds and let more children grow up to glorify God.

went unanswered. I do not think we can honestly separate out the issue from the consequences. While some may debate global warming, various changes in agricultural practices, and the relative merits on vaccines for swine flu - millions of human lives are not being snuffed out each year as a result of these debates. The same can not be said about abortion.

Just recognize that this issue has its own built in consequences for all of us.

God bless
 
A COUPLE QUICK POINTS
Code:
Before I'm ready to condemn President Obama, I want to see whether abortions decline during his presidency. I believe I read somewhere that they went down under Clinton and rose again during Bush II. Interesting, if true.

 A superior university is a place where different ideas are freely expressed. I deeply admire Notre Dame for inviting Obama, and I have never been a ND fan. Maybe I'll even begin to cheer for their football team now. Harvard, Yale, Princeton and most other old and renowned US universities were founded primarily to train Protestant clergy and they became great when they expanded their horizons. 

 Now, as for superstition, forgive me for this honesty. I believe that Christianity - Catholic, Orthodox and Protestantism - has been seriously impacted by superstition. It would offend many if I began to expand on this, so I won't.

  My creed is simple. I love the Lord my God and try to serve him. I love Christ and try to emulate him by following his teachings (as I understand them). I respect all religions that are tolerant, reach out to those in need, and seek justice and peace. I stand in awe at this mammoth, majestic, magnificent and mysterious universe. I admit to doubts about many doctrines, but feel that God respects a brain that tries to understand and a heart that seeks to love. I worship at the church of my choice but have visited many different churches, temples, and mosques.

   My problem is with people of any affiliation who claim to have a monopoly on truth, and when Benedict XVI said that Protestant churches weren't really churches but 'ecclesial entities' and added that ministers really don't officiate at valid communion services, that annoyed and distressed. Genuinely religious people should be humble in the presence of all that we don't know. The Catholic Church foes wonderful work in education (as at ND), in medical care, and among the poor. But it needs to be less arrogant and holier-than-everyone-else. Fortunately most Catholics I know are open-minded and we can discuss religion without any of us condemning the faith of the others. Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier, a uniter and not a divider.
 
A COUPLE QUICK POINTS
Code:
Before I'm ready to condemn President Obama, I want to see whether abortions decline during his presidency. I believe I read somewhere that they went down under Clinton and rose again during Bush II. Interesting, if true.

 A superior university is a place where different ideas are freely expressed. I deeply admire Notre Dame for inviting Obama, and I have never been a ND fan. Maybe I'll even begin to cheer for their football team now. Harvard, Yale, Princeton and most other old and renowned US universities were founded primarily to train Protestant clergy and they became great when they expanded their horizons. 

 Now, as for superstition, forgive me for this honesty. I believe that Christianity - Catholic, Orthodox and Protestantism - has been seriously impacted by superstition. It would offend many if I began to expand on this, so I won't.

  My creed is simple. I love the Lord my God and try to serve him. I love Christ and try to emulate him by following his teachings (as I understand them). I respect all religions that are tolerant, reach out to those in need, and seek justice and peace. I stand in awe at this mammoth, majestic, magnificent and mysterious universe. I admit to doubts about many doctrines, but feel that God respects a brain that tries to understand and a heart that seeks to love. I worship at the church of my choice but have visited many different churches, temples, and mosques.

   My problem is with people of any affiliation who claim to have a monopoly on truth, and when Benedict XVI said that Protestant churches weren't really churches but 'ecclesial entities' and added that ministers really don't officiate at valid communion services, that annoyed and distressed. Genuinely religious people should be humble in the presence of all that we don't know. The Catholic Church foes wonderful work in education (as at ND), in medical care, and among the poor. But it needs to be less arrogant and holier-than-everyone-else. Fortunately most Catholics I know are open-minded and we can discuss religion without any of us condemning the faith of the others. Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier, a uniter and not a divider.
Do you believe there is no absolute truth?
 
Hello Marsha! By the way, who gives you the right to state that you speak for all “genuine” Catholics? What you need to do is realize that you state you are putting down Protestants. Are we not as Catholics or 'genuine" Catholics as you put it - to embrace a respect for others like the Protestants?
I respect Protestants’ right to believe anything they please. That doesn’t meant I respect what they believe, if that belief is error.

But this is not a Protestant issue. The issue is that a university claiming to be Catholic invited a Pro-abortionist to speak at their commencement program and gave him an honor as though he should be esteemed and emulated. That is a public scandel to the faithful.

Now let us address genuine versus pseudo Catholics. EXAMPLE: The Church teaches that the Eucharist is the glorified Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. Genuine Catholics believe what the Church teaches and embrace the Real Presence. Ergo, anyone who does not believe in the Real Presence is not a genuine Catholic. Where do I get the right to say that? From the Church herself. You also have that right as does any other Catholic. Likewise, the Church teaches that life begins at conception and abortion is murder of the unborn and always under all circumstances constitutes grave sin. All genuine Catholics accept and embrace this teaching. Anyone who denies this teaching is NOT a Catholic, and I don’t care what they call themselves. Who gives me the right to say this? The Church, herself gave me that right at Confirmation, as she did you.
 
ABSOLUTE TRUTH?
Code:
Do I believe in absolute truth? Probably it exists, but I suspect that our human mind is too finite to know it. That is why religion appeals to me, frankly, It asks the basic questions of life: why are we here? where are we going? etc.

Some people need exact answers, and they usually follow some faith that claims to provide exact answers, like Catholicism or evangelical Protestantism or Islam. I find that some of my friends, like me, can live by faith without knowledge. We're not ready to rely on any church or book or pope or preacher for precise answers, even though I accept much of traditional Christianity and certainly revere Christ. I embrace enough of Christianity to satisfy me, but have doubts which no longer trouble me (they once did). 

 Actually, I believe the world is too magnificent and mysterious - maybe a million or a billion solar systems like ours - for mortals to comprehend. That's one reason for my faith. But having faith is not the same as holding all sorts of doctrines. I have read most of the Church Fathers, know the scriptures rather well, have attended worship at all sorts of places - including Catholic and Orthodox churches, mosques, Hindu, Sikh, Jain, Buddhist and Shinto temples, etc - and appreciate the sincere efforts of our species to understand the mysteries of life. But I guess I hold God as too high above me - as Psalm 139 says - to claim to know all that much when it comes to spiritual matters.

   There is a book called 'Christian Agnostic' which comes close to my own view. The author is a Christian, as I am, in that I know God through Christ, and my worldview is a Christian worldview. But I also know that behind and beyond all this lies a deeper reality which our human capacity cannot grasp. I don't need grasp it. That's where my faith helps me live day to day, trusting in the grace of God and grateful for this experience we call life, even with its setbacks and sorrows. I try my best to appreciate all faiths and be patient with those who are certain that they have a monopoly on truth. It isn't always easy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top