Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

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Hi, Slb4G,

In all honesty, I just do not see how you can do this…
Sorry, I have a disagreement with you and Father Francis. I see no wrong in trying to discern another’s intentions. In fact, on occasion, that attempt may arrive at the truth. And sometimes, I would add, protect one from harm!
Judging behavior is not usually a problem (at least in theory… sometimes this gets terribly out of balance and there are actual facts that can be assessed!! :eek: )

The opportunities for error appear to increase when trying to discern another’s intentions … and then… making the jump to imputing motives is just not that far away.

The focus on Fr. Jenkins, at least in my opinion, must be what lesson can we learn from this scandelous event and what objective changes can we work on to accomplish this change so this does not happen again.

I have been amazed that there could be anyone with ears to hear (much less Fr. Jenkins) would doubt the wisdom of denying a free honor to someone who promotes infantacide (our President left the ‘mere’ abortionists in the dust years ago!) I guess it just goes to show you that not everyone is on the same page when it comes to what others think as ‘clear policy’.

God bless
 
Hi, Br JR,

Our prayers go with you and the success of this mission. 😃
I know exactly what you mean. I direct a school for children with disabilities. Our children were going to be aborted, until someone rescued them. We educate them and prepare them for life. I also serve the Archdiocese in post abortion counseling for Dads. I go around parishes speaking to parish groups and gathering troops and money to run our Respect LIfe Ministry.

I just received permission from my superior to start a new community of men who will live a life of prayer, penance, silence, brortherhood, poverty and serve the unborn as their exclusive ministry living by the Rule of St. Francis. We need more men to do this. Please pray for the vocations to come our way. My community wants to start this smaller community of brothers and I’m supposed to train them.

Sometimes I find this overwhelming, because abortion is something that I have fought against my entire life and now we find so many challenges: the state, the laity, lack of vocations, lack of funds and so forth. When this happens, I pray, do my lectio divina, talk with my Franciscan brothers in my community, and do my spritual reading. It helps me keep all these balls in the air in favor of the unborn, without the anger and the anxiety.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
God bless
 
JReducation—God bless you, your work, the children—and especially the unborn. And, thank you.
I second that may God bless you and your work.

God has a purpose for all of us, we all have different personalities which become tools for God to do his work.

We need apologist and defenders of the faith as well, especially during these hard times, the grass is becoming dry. We put our trust in God for he knows best, however we should not become weak and lax in our beliefs for no one, no matter who they maybe.
 
I know exactly what you mean. I direct a school for children with disabilities. Our children were going to be aborted, until someone rescued them. We educate them and prepare them for life. I also serve the Archdiocese in post abortion counseling for Dads. I go around parishes speaking to parish groups and gathering troops and money to run our Respect LIfe Ministry.

I just received permission from my superior to start a new community of men who will live a life of prayer, penance, silence, brortherhood, poverty and serve the unborn as their exclusive ministry living by the Rule of St. Francis. We need more men to do this. Please pray for the vocations to come our way. My community wants to start this smaller community of brothers and I’m supposed to train them.

Sometimes I find this overwhelming, because abortion is something that I have fought against my entire life and now we find so many challenges: the state, the laity, lack of vocations, lack of funds and so forth. When this happens, I pray, do my lectio divina, talk with my Franciscan brothers in my community, and do my spritual reading. It helps me keep all these balls in the air in favor of the unborn, without the anger and the anxiety.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
My prayers for you, :juggle: and the little ones. :crossrc:
 
My prayers for you, :juggle: and the little ones. :crossrc:
Thanks for your prayers. In light of situations such as ND’s and many other similar ones, I am more firmly convinced that the first line of response among Catholics is the foundation of new religious communities to minister to the unborn child.

In the past, Christians have responded to the needs of children by founding such religious communities of men and women to teach the poor, shelter and protect the orphans and to heal the sick. In response to these need Christian men and women gathered in communities such as the De la Salle Christian Brothers, Daughters of Charity, Sisters of Charity, Franciscan Brothers of Brooklyn, Dominican Sisters of Nashville, Salesians and Sisters of St. Joseph.

For centuriest these religious communities of Brothers and Sisters dedicated their lives to the welfare of children living outside their mother’s womb. What heralded them as holy men and women and true followers of the Gospel was not the time and energy that they spent writing and debating about the needs of children. What made them heralds of the Gospel was that they took action.

Six or seven men got together and consecrated their lives to live the evangelical counsels, to pray, to do penance and to live in communities that taught children. These were the first Salesian, Christian Brothers, Xaverian Brothers and Holy Cross Brothers.

Women did not stay behind. There were courageous women, some widows with children such as Elizabeth Ann Seton, who endured great hardship and even saw the death of their children as they persevered to live in new communities of religious life dedicated to caring for orphan and sick children. They ran schools for the poor and the vulnerable members of society. From here were born the great congregations of women who taught many of us.

Well, now there is another threat to the child. This time the child is in the womb of the mother. Nonetheless, it is still a child and our younger brother and sister. Thousands of American Catholics are shocked and indignant when they read about the actions of those who promote abortions and those who are their friends.

However, so far there are less than 100 men and women who have answered Christ’s call to leave everything, take up the cross of the unborn child, and follow him. There are less than 100 religious brothers and religious sisters whose sole ministry is to their pre-born brothers and sisters. Yes, there are individual religious within the larger orders who do this ministry. But I’m speaking about religious communities that do solely respect life ministry.

The outcry of indignation at Notre Dame University and at the bishops on these threads and in our parishes has been overwhelming. Yet, I have posted on several threads that some of us are going to be leaving the safety net of our religious community to found new religious communities of brothers to minister to the unborn and we have not received a single inquiry by anyone on these threads, where more than 100,000 Catholics come to complain every day.

The Sisters of Life in the Archdiocese of NY led the march for the Gospel of Life. So far there have been about 35-50 women who have joined them.

My dearest brothers and sisters, it is not enough to post outcries of indignation. We need to respond to the opportunties that grace gives us to serve the Incarnate Son of God who is still in the womb and is threatened by abortion. We need to raise our hearts and minds in prayer and ask God for the gift of a religious vocation to these communities that want to serve the unborn child by living a life of prayer, penance, on-going conversion, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, fidelity to the Church and her teachings on life, and living a life of poverty and obedience in order to be free to serve these children and their parents.

Those who are married can also help. This way of life may be for your son or daughter. But how are they going to hear about it? I first heard about the Franciscans when my parents exposed me to them. My father brought home a little book on St. Francis, I still remember it.

The Sisters of Life in NY first heard about the new congregation when someone told them of it. These young women courageously left everything to follow Christ and to lead the children to him.

There are several new religouis communities who have the unborn as their primary ministry. But there are more people talking about abortion and less people entering the cloister where they can do more good through prayer and by active ministry in pregnancy centers, diocesan education programs, counseling the pregnant mother, healing the the trauma of the parent who has gone through with an abortion and is now broken.

My intention is not to reprimand or even demand that the readers of this post become religious. My intention is to make us think about the fact that there is the posibility of a religious vocation to be a brother or a sister whose life is placed on the cross, with Christ’s, for the sake of these unborn and their parents.

If we Catholics want to be known as a people of life, we need both the laity and religious who are at the service of our unborn brothers and sisters.

I apologize in advance if I sound offensive. It is not my intention. It is my intention to let everyone know that we need more religious brothers and sisters to prevent situations like ND from ever happening again.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The practical impact of the protests over President Obama’s appearance at the University of Notre Dame has been negligible. For example, the donations that might be withheld amount to about .9% - nine tenths of one percent - of the money the school has raised during its special fund drive over the last two years. It is about .2%, two tenths of one percent, of its endowment. (For an article with some numbers, see:
Code:
                     [commonwealmagazine.org/blog/?p=3294](http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/?p=3294). )
One sentence in the article, in particular, seems applicable.
Code:
           The disparity seems to echo the disparity within the student 
           body in terms of support for Obama’s appearance, and the 
           disparity in the Catholic populace.
Barack Obama is the first African American elected to the office of President of the United States. That alone was enough reason to invite him to address the Class of 2009. In addition, Father Hesburgh, a leading voice of the Civil Rights Movement, is in his 90’s and not in the best of health. He may not be around in a couple of years. Awarding the degree to President Obama was as much an honor to Father Hesburgh as it was to the president.

Father Jenkins’ actions open a dialog on topics of mutual interest, though not necessarily of mutual agreement, that will have implications for our country, the university, and the world in which we live. They contribute to Notre Dame’s reputation as an institution of higher learning that is both Catholic and a university. His decision was not in conflict with Church doctrine or authority and reflected the feelings not only of the school’s Board of Trustees but also of the vast majority of Roman Catholics at the university and across the United States. Father Jenkins’ decision was entirely appropriate and I do not believe that any action will be taken against him.
 
It is possible you are right that the impact of these protests is negligible. But I have also heard that it is a defining moment for the Church in the United States. Pro-abortion politicians have been honored by Catholic schools in the past without protest, and of course many Catholics feel abortion is no issue when they vote. But when other Catholic colleges honored pro-abortion politiicans, the Catholic public found it easier to ignore it because it happened at schools they never even had heard of. Notre Dame university is considered by some as the epitome of Catholic higher education in the United States, and many Catholics were unable to acept such honoring of a pro-abortion politician there. They fact that Catholic were so greatly stirred up may have an effect on their reactions in the future. Catholic families may even be reluctant to send their children there, some of them at least.
On the other hand, perhaps you will be right. Perhaps the protests will have a negligible effect. I think it is better to wait and see if what the effect will be or will not be.
The practical impact of the protests over President Obama’s appearance at the University of Notre Dame has been negligible. For example, the donations that might be withheld amount to about .9% - nine tenths of one percent - of the money the school has raised during its special fund drive over the last two years. It is about .2%, two tenths of one percent, of its endowment. (For an article with some numbers, see:
 
Hi, Recondelta,

You’re right - withholding donations did not bring NDU to its knees…at least not yet.

Delighting some may be one way the Board and Administration fo NDU see their new role in education … or, is that Catholic education?

Finding a way to honor the first African-American President obvously required the NDU group to pull out all the stops and charge pell-mell into this brave new world.

But, the bottom line for those who care to look is still remarkably simple: When it came to standing up for the unborn, NDU took a pass and just sat down after handing our President who has activlely advanced the cuase of - not just abortion but - infantacide. This is sad - at least from the way that I look at it.

God bless
The practical impact of the protests over President Obama’s appearance at the University of Notre Dame has been negligible. For example, the donations that might be withheld amount to about .9% - nine tenths of one percent - of the money the school has raised during its special fund drive over the last two years. It is about .2%, two tenths of one percent, of its endowment. (For an article with some numbers, see:
Code:
                     [commonwealmagazine.org/blog/?p=3294](http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/?p=3294). )
One sentence in the article, in particular, seems applicable.
Code:
           The disparity seems to echo the disparity within the student 
           body in terms of support for Obama’s appearance, and the 
           disparity in the Catholic populace.
Barack Obama is the first African American elected to the office of President of the United States. That alone was enough reason to invite him to address the Class of 2009. In addition, Father Hesburgh, a leading voice of the Civil Rights Movement, is in his 90’s and not in the best of health. He may not be around in a couple of years. Awarding the degree to President Obama was as much an honor to Father Hesburgh as it was to the president.

Father Jenkins’ actions open a dialog on topics of mutual interest, though not necessarily of mutual agreement, that will have implications for our country, the university, and the world in which we live. They contribute to Notre Dame’s reputation as an institution of higher learning that is both Catholic and a university. His decision was not in conflict with Church doctrine or authority and reflected the feelings not only of the school’s Board of Trustees but also of the vast majority of Roman Catholics at the university and across the United States. Father Jenkins’ decision was entirely appropriate and I do not believe that any action will be taken against him.
 
Father Jenkins’ decision was entirely appropriate and I do not believe that any action will be taken against him.
That depends on whose perspective we’re speaking from. Fr. Jenkins is a priest AND a religious in vows. He enjoys two states within the Church. He is a cleric and he is a religious brother of the Congregation of the Holy Cross.

As a cleric he has a moral duty to listen to the Church, before acting. Did he listen and then act? I don’t know. Do you?

As a religious, he has a moral duty to his brothers and his congregation. Did he consult with them? From the letter by his superior general, does not get that impressiion. His superior general, in an interview, was as surprised as anyone else.

Did the bishops make a statement in 2004? Yes they did. Was this statement morally binding on Catholics? No. It was a pastoral statement, not a moral decree.

Now comes the other side of the coin. Let us return to the fact that Fr. Jenkins is a religious in vows. One of the vows that we make is to obey, even when the voice of those above us is not morally binding. We do not obey, because we have to, but because we want to. We obey, because we love.

There are times when we are asked to obey requirements and commands that are senseless. But unless they are sinful, they are valid requests on the part of those in authority. The religious does not have the luxury of the secular man. The religious does not have the luxury of choosing when to love and when to look the other way.

Now I know that some will argue that the religious must obey God above man. But let us remember that a man is a religious because it is the human authority of the Church that accepts his profession of vows and it is the human authority of the Church that gives those vows validity. It is also the human authority of the Church that decides whether a man or woman has a calling to the religious life.

Let us add to that another fact. When a religious vows obedience, he binds himself to the will of Church and he acknowledges that God speaks through the Church, not through a private hotline between him and heaven. This is why it is called a Profession of Vows. A religious does not simply make vows. He or she PROFESSES vows. He publicly makes a statement of faith in the authority of the Church, the authority of the founder of his community, the authority of his brothers gathered in chapter, the authority of the constitutions that govern his religious family and the authority of his religious superior.

When a religious can only act idependently of the Church, local or universal, in those areas where the Church has no jurisdiction, such as the internal affairs of his community or an institution run by his community that is not canonically subject to the authority of the Church.

Granted, ND is not canonically subject to the authority of the Church. However, the issue on the table comes under the authority of the Church.

I’ll give an example. Several religious communities that run colleges and universities have said that they will not celebrate the EF on their campus, because it is not part of their charism and because the Motu Propio exempts religious from celebrating the EF in their chapels. This includes chapels in their schools. This choice is permitted to them by the Motu Propio. In addition the Motu Proprio did said that there are two forms of the Latin rite mass, EF and OF. It said that the celebration of the EF cannot be obstructed by the bishops and pastors. In this case, ND, like every other institution run by religious is given a choice and they have the right to exercise it.

The issue of abortion is not one of two choices, like the form of the mass. There is no other choice but the Gospel of life. Therefore, what the bishops are defending is what every Catholic must defend. The religious in vows is bound by his baptism AND by his vow of obedience to defend what the Church defends.

Did Fr. Jenkins speak for abortion? No. To say so would be a gross lie. Did he try to open the doors to a dialogue that is not possible? Yes. When it comes to abortion there is no dialogue that can make right what is wrong. Therefore, the choice to invite President Obama to ND, after the bishops’ statement of 2004 is a only productive if President Obama were to change his position on abortion. Will that happen?

In that case, the religious who has promised a loving obedience to those who are superior to him, must ask himself what is the loving thing to do. Out of love ask those who are superior to him for their imput before acting. In that case, it would have been appropriate to discuss it with the Provincial Superior of the Holy Cross, who said that he was not consulted. It would have been a loving thing to do to consult with the local bisop, who said he had not been consulted. It may have been appropriate to consult it with the USCCB’s Respect Life Committe, which was not consulted.

Any person who bound by obedience first tries to love. Love means that you avoid creating a problem where none is warranted. Is Fr. Jenkins wrong? I don’t know. Is he right? I think he cut a few corners and created a situation that could have been avoided.

Just because you’re not morally guilty does not mean that you are morally right.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Hi, Br JR,

I have learned so much about the inner workings of our Church - thank you for your post. 🙂
(Shortened just a bit…😃 ) Any person who bound by obedience first tries to love. Love means that you avoid creating a problem where none is warranted. Is Fr. Jenkins wrong? I don’t know. Is he right? I think he cut a few corners and created a situation that could have been avoided.

Just because you’re not morally guilty does not mean that you are morally right.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
God bless
 
Thanks for your prayers. In light of situations such as ND’s and many other similar ones, I am more firmly convinced that the first line of response among Catholics is the foundation of new religious communities to minister to the unborn child.

In the past, Christians have responded to the needs of children by founding such religious communities of men and women to teach the poor, shelter and protect the orphans and to heal the sick. In response to these need Christian men and women gathered in communities such as the De la Salle Christian Brothers, Daughters of Charity, Sisters of Charity, Franciscan Brothers of Brooklyn, Dominican Sisters of Nashville, Salesians and Sisters of St. Joseph.

For centuriest these religious communities of Brothers and Sisters dedicated their lives to the welfare of children living outside their mother’s womb. What heralded them as holy men and women and true followers of the Gospel was not the time and energy that they spent writing and debating about the needs of children. What made them heralds of the Gospel was that they took action.

Six or seven men got together and consecrated their lives to live the evangelical counsels, to pray, to do penance and to live in communities that taught children. These were the first Salesian, Christian Brothers, Xaverian Brothers and Holy Cross Brothers.

Women did not stay behind. There were courageous women, some widows with children such as Elizabeth Ann Seton, who endured great hardship and even saw the death of their children as they persevered to live in new communities of religious life dedicated to caring for orphan and sick children. They ran schools for the poor and the vulnerable members of society. From here were born the great congregations of women who taught many of us.

Well, now there is another threat to the child. This time the child is in the womb of the mother. Nonetheless, it is still a child and our younger brother and sister. Thousands of American Catholics are shocked and indignant when they read about the actions of those who promote abortions and those who are their friends.

However, so far there are less than 100 men and women who have answered Christ’s call to leave everything, take up the cross of the unborn child, and follow him. There are less than 100 religious brothers and religious sisters whose sole ministry is to their pre-born brothers and sisters. Yes, there are individual religious within the larger orders who do this ministry. But I’m speaking about religious communities that do solely respect life ministry.

The outcry of indignation at Notre Dame University and at the bishops on these threads and in our parishes has been overwhelming. Yet, I have posted on several threads that some of us are going to be leaving the safety net of our religious community to found new religious communities of brothers to minister to the unborn and we have not received a single inquiry by anyone on these threads, where more than 100,000 Catholics come to complain every day.

The Sisters of Life in the Archdiocese of NY led the march for the Gospel of Life. So far there have been about 35-50 women who have joined them.

My dearest brothers and sisters, it is not enough to post outcries of indignation. We need to respond to the opportunties that grace gives us to serve the Incarnate Son of God who is still in the womb and is threatened by abortion. We need to raise our hearts and minds in prayer and ask God for the gift of a religious vocation to these communities that want to serve the unborn child by living a life of prayer, penance, on-going conversion, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, fidelity to the Church and her teachings on life, and living a life of poverty and obedience in order to be free to serve these children and their parents.

Those who are married can also help. This way of life may be for your son or daughter. But how are they going to hear about it? I first heard about the Franciscans when my parents exposed me to them. My father brought home a little book on St. Francis, I still remember it.

The Sisters of Life in NY first heard about the new congregation when someone told them of it. These young women courageously left everything to follow Christ and to lead the children to him.

There are several new religouis communities who have the unborn as their primary ministry. But there are more people talking about abortion and less people entering the cloister where they can do more good through prayer and by active ministry in pregnancy centers, diocesan education programs, counseling the pregnant mother, healing the the trauma of the parent who has gone through with an abortion and is now broken.

My intention is not to reprimand or even demand that the readers of this post become religious. My intention is to make us think about the fact that there is the posibility of a religious vocation to be a brother or a sister whose life is placed on the cross, with Christ’s, for the sake of these unborn and their parents.

If we Catholics want to be known as a people of life, we need both the laity and religious who are at the service of our unborn brothers and sisters.

I apologize in advance if I sound offensive. It is not my intention. It is my intention to let everyone know that we need more religious brothers and sisters to prevent situations like ND from ever happening again.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
What can we as lay people not willing to give up our life style for a courageous life for others do to help out? Are there lay communities, or only religious communities??
 
What can we as lay people not willing to give up our life style for a courageous life for others do to help out? Are there lay communities, or only religious communities??
The are both Secular Orders for married people and Regular Orders that live a life of chastity, poverty and obedience in community. They are dedicated to the Gospel of Life.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
why are some taking it upon themselves to demand that he be fired for something that is not a sin?
Lots of people get fired for lots of things that are not sins. Many people get fired for doing something incredibly stupid (stupidity is not a sin). Inviting a pro-abortion speaker to give the graduation address and receive an award at an anti-abortion university qualifies as doing something incredibly stupid IMHO. Even brilliant saintly individuals have been know to do stupid things, and doing stupid things is certainly grounds for firing.
 
Exactly how could you consider a monologue, a dialogue? President Obama specifically acknowledged that the pro-Life and pro-Choice stances are irreconcilable, so regarding ‘common ground’, I don’t even think he agrees with you.

And labeling the Catholics who disagree with the President ‘right-wing’ is dishonest. Father Hugh Cleary C.S.C., Father Jenkins’ superior, called the honoring a grave scandal. The bishop of the diocese, John D’Arcy, also called it a scandal. So did a Vatican official, the Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura. This isn’t something Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh drummed up.
touche!
 
Now why didn’t Jenkins give Obama the booklet on Bioethics, instead of confusing all those young students? And the rest that all is well [Honoring a Pro Choice to kill]
Looks like it was left to the Pope to show the church’s stands regarding murder.
😃 You gotta love the Pope 😃
 
Hi, Imperial.

Yes, the Pope did an excellent job. If anyone can win Obama over, I think it is Pope Benedict XVI
Now why didn’t Jenkins give Obama the booklet on Bioethics, instead of confusing all those young students? And the rest that all is well [Honoring a Pro Choice to kill]
Looks like it was left to the Pope to show the church’s stands regarding murder.
😃 You gotta love the Pope 😃
God bless
 
Originally Posted by recondelta
Father Jenkins’ decision was entirely appropriate and I do not believe that any action will be taken against him.

Originally Posed by JR education
That depends on whose perspective we’re speaking from

Originally Posted by Marsha Adams
*Even brilliant saintly individuals have been know to do stupid things, and doing stupid things is certainly grounds for firing. *

There are a variety of opinions on Fr. Jenkins’ actions. We will know whether President
Obama’s visit was a + or a - once we see what happens over the next 18-20 months or
so; “dialog” is a process that occurs over a period of time. If we see steps taken that will
reduce the number of abortions in the future, then we get a +. If it is the “same old, same
old,” then we get a -. Whether the President’s visit with Pope Benedict XVI was a + or a -
also will be determined by the same considerations. It will be an interesting time.
 
I don’t understand how dialogue occured? It did occur several days ago when President Obama met the Pope, who spoke about the Catholic position abortion and stem cell research, and of course the Pope gave him a bound copy of his encyclical on bioethics for his customary gift. What did Father Jenkins and Notre Dame do to provide the Catholic side on abortion and life issues? To me, a dialogue occurs when two sides inform each other about their differing position so that mutual understanding will occur, if not agreement.
 
Hi, Mdgspencer,

To my way of thinking it all orbits around what has been learned … by us and by NDU.

I think it is very optomistic to think President Obama will learn anything about the value of UNBORN life - if he is on record of advocating infantacide!

Seriously, if anything has been learned by NDU, they have gone to great lenght to make sure the basket used to cover their lamp is airtight! Of course…with no air… that lamp will go out!

God bless
I don’t understand how dialogue occured? It did occur several days ago when President Obama met the Pope, who spoke about the Catholic position abortion and stem cell research, and of course the Pope gave him a bound copy of his encyclical on bioethics for his customary gift. What did Father Jenkins and Notre Dame do to provide the Catholic side on abortion and life issues? To me, a dialogue occurs when two sides inform each other about their differing position so that mutual understanding will occur, if not agreement.
 
Seriously, if anything has been learned by NDU, they have gone to great lenght to make sure the basket used to cover their lamp is airtight! Of course…with no air… that lamp will go out!

God bless
Ha! Good one 😉
 
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