Why can't homosexuals see that their behavior is an abomination?

[Petergee]

I am not surprised that you are saying that.

No problem.

 

[empantarhei]

I am not surprised that you are saying that.

that was not a statement

 

[Baelor]

Your first point directly contradicts your last point. Are you still accusing me of saying that or not?

No it does not, since you did not read my post carefully:

Me:

First, it is worth noting that I did not actually accuse you of stating that someone viewed homosexuality as “positive and good”** when you accused me of accusing that.**

I now see why you have not been understanding what I have been saying. Please do read my posts until you do; they have been consistently very clear.

Yet again let me repeat, I said that *"every time someone mentions homosexuality as something other than positive and good, intelligent discussion is drowned by a chorus of kneejerk PC mantras of “you’re attacking me/them!” * which obviously you and others have done.

Really? Where? Where did I claim you were attacking homosexuals? Or other posters saying that because you mentioned homosexuality as something other than positive and good, they said you were “attacking” homosexuals in a chorus of kneejerk PC mantras?

Also, I was correct! You did accuse posters of believing that homosexuality is positive and good, as you will now see.

I did NOT say “every time someone mentions homosexuality as something other than positive and good, someone has responded “homosexuality IS positive and good” and they have done so on this thread!”

I refer you to my post here:

Me:

That is, someone reacted negatively when you portrayed homosexuality as something other than “positive and good.” Unless you wish to assert a massive level of dissonance on the part of said poster, he presumably believes that homosexuality is “positive and good.”

Why on earth would someone who believed homosexuality not to be positive and good argue against at a poster for believing that homosexuality is not positive and good?

Great, then you can stop this silly charade.

Thank for admitting that you erred. And I stand up for accuracy and correctness, regardless of whether I am offended.

If you are in fact a woman (or a boy, girl, youth, hermaphrodite, etc.etc.) I apologise for any inadvertent offence. But there is nothing to indicate this on your profile. Your name seems male to me. So you can hardly blame me if I made a false conclusion.

My sex was not the issue. I was just noting that men do not monopolize “giving an apology,” which pertains to every human being on the planet.

Petergee:

Post 109:

I do not need to be a professional mathematician to know that 2+2=4.

 

[Petergee]

Why on earth would someone who believed homosexuality not to be positive and good argue against at a poster for believing that homosexuality is not positive and good?

as you well know, they and you objected to the statements by me, the OP and others because they were supposedly expressed in “unloving” terms.

As you also well know and have demonstrated fulsomely, arguing against what someone has said does not necessarily mean only saying “the truth is the exact opposite of everthing that you have stated”.

 

[Baelor]

as you well know, they and you objected to the statements by me, the OP and others because they were supposedly expressed in “unloving” terms.

Then you admit it is not the fact that you portrayed homosexuality as something other than “positive and good,” but rather that you were unloving that prompted objections to your statements.

As you also well know and have demonstrated fulsomely, arguing against what someone has said does not necessarily mean only saying “the truth is the exact opposite of everthing that you have stated”.

Correct, but in this case it does.

 

[Ruthie_again]

Well, I was going to jump in again, but Baelor has said everything I wanted to, and far more clearly.

Petergee, if you cannot see that what you wrote was a false accusation, and you cannot understand Baelor’s clear and logical posts, then I will pray that your reading comprehension, and understanding of grammar, improve.

If you come back and say that your reading comprehension or understanding of grammar are good, then I will be forced to conclude that you are struggling with the idea that you might be wrong. I know it’s hard, but fight the good fight, okay?

Back to the original question.

GraceSofia said:

How often do alcoholics say they had no understanding of the destruction they were causing until after they got sober?

Speaking as a sober alcoholic, we didn’t. When you’re a drunk, you hide from reality in a bottle. I was sober less than 30 days when my conscience woke up, and I broke off the affair I was having with a married man. But before that, I was fine with it. I guess I drank my conscience to death. What little conscience I had… I was raised to believe that feeling guilty was bad for me.

I didn’t realize that my other sexual sins, with unmarried/uncommitted men, caused any harm until I became Catholic. (Which was 24 years later.) I knew that I harmed myself with it, but it never occurred to me that I also harmed them until I understood (and believed) what the Church teaches.

So I do not expect any active homosexual to see that they are in sin, unless their guardian angel smacks them with the Holy Clue-by-four.

And we should all remember that using words such as “disgusting” and “abomination” will not win any converts. Which is more important - using the words we feel are accurate, or helping a soul get to heaven?

And Levi made him a great feast in his house; and there was a large company of tax collectors and others sitting at table with them. And the Pharisees and their scribes murmured against his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” And Jesus answered them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
(Luke 5:29-32, RSV)

 

[yellowbird]

And we should all remember that using words such as “disgusting” and “abomination” will not win any converts. Which is more important - using the words we feel are accurate, or helping a soul get to heaven?

Well said. I can’t imgaine how any Christian could possibly disagree with this, unless they put a greater value on winning an argument over winning a soul.

 

[empantarhei]

And we should all remember that using words such as “disgusting” and “abomination” will not win any converts. Which is more important - using the words we feel are accurate, or helping a soul get to heaven?

:clapping: :clapping:

 

[empantarhei]

Well said. I can’t imgaine how any Christian could possibly disagree with this, unless they put a greater value on winning an argument over winning a soul.

Well, then there are some people who in fact put a greater value on winning an argument over everything; Christians and otherwise. It’s a shame for both. Leaves less space in the heart for love, I think.

 

[empantarhei]

correction: there are MANY people …

 

[CopticChristian]

Homosexual behavior is a truly disgusting form of sexual abuse, but homosexuals can’t see it or experience it. Why? It must be the deception of Satan!

Robert,

I understand your sentiment however this does disservice to the people you never hear about, homosexuals not satisfied, homosexuals that find disgust and seek to change their behavior. If you were to read Nicolosi’s book you would find the numbers he has seen that are not happy being told that they were born for rectal intercourse and want out.

 

[yellowbird]

Robert,

I understand your sentiment however this does disservice to the people you never hear about, homosexuals not satisfied, homosexuals that find disgust and seek to change their behavior. If you were to read Nicolosi’s book you would find the numbers he has seen that are not happy being told that they were born for rectal intercourse and want out.

I know so many gays who’ve told me they didn’t want to be gay. They’ve prayed and prayed and prayed for God to make them straight, and it didn’t happen. I think if sexual orientation were easy to change, people would because they want to be married - they want a family, they want what everyone else wants. Some were literally kicked out of their families when they confessed they were gay.

I think it’s often a very heavy cross to bear… and not by their chosing.

I don’t understand how a person couldn’t have compassion for these people? I really don’t.

 

[empantarhei]

I think it’s often a very heavy cross to bear… and not by their chosing.

I don’t understand how a person couldn’t have compassion for these people? I really don’t.

that makes two, er, bunches and bunches of us.
Blessings.

 

[CopticChristian]

I know so many gays who’ve told me they didn’t want to be gay. They’ve prayed and prayed and prayed for God to make them straight, and it didn’t happen.** I think if sexual orientation were easy to change, **people would because they want to be married - they want a family, they want what everyone else wants. Some were literally kicked out of their families when they confessed they were gay.

I think it’s often a very heavy cross to bear… and not by their chosing.

I don’t understand how a person couldn’t have compassion for these people? I really don’t.

Yellow,

Who said change of any kind is easy

Murderers change
Fornicators change
Women that have had Abortions change
Addicts change

many have long lives of suffering Paul was a murderer, Augustine was a fornicator, Dorothy Day had an abortion and many addicts without name have changed…

The bottom line is Motivation…no change comes without motivation…this is the catalyst for change…I want to change lots of things however without the motivation I stagnate…find a reason to change and change happens…

I agree that compassion is needed and for those homosexuals that accept their SSA and act on it and portray their behavior they need our prayer…and for those with SSA who don’t act on it, they need our prayer…and for all of ther other miserable beggars in the world, included in that plight would be me, we creatures, we all need prayer…because none of us is without sin…I ain’t casting no first stone…

 

[mpark1917]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[yellowbird]

I agree that compassion is needed and for those homosexuals that accept their SSA and act on it and portray their behavior they need our prayer…and for those with SSA who don’t act on it, they need our prayer…and for all of ther other miserable beggars in the world, included in that plight would be me, we creatures, we all need prayer…because none of us is without sin…I ain’t casting no first stone…

O my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to heaven especially those in most need of thy mercy.

 

[Petergee]

Then you admit it is not the fact that you portrayed homosexuality as something other than “positive and good,” but rather that you were unloving that prompted objections to your statements.

Wow, “unloving”, now, is it? I think I’m through trying to talk sense to you.

Correct, but in this case it does.

You remind me of the man in the Monty Python “Argument sketch”.

 

[Petergee]

Well, I was going to jump in again, but Baelor has said everything I wanted to, and far more clearly.

Petergee, if you cannot see that what you wrote was a false accusation, and you cannot understand Baelor’s clear and logical posts, then I will pray that your reading comprehension, and understanding of grammar, improve.

If you come back and say that your reading comprehension or understanding of grammar are good, then I will be forced to conclude that you are struggling with the idea that you might be wrong. I know it’s hard, but fight the good fight, okay?

Read the thread, on each occasion when it was pointed out that I was wrong, I freely apologised. But I’m not a doormat. I’m not going to plead guilty to a false accusation just because it’s repeated over and over to try to bully me into submission.

And we should all remember that using words such as “disgusting” and “abomination” will not win any converts.

I totally respect that as your opinion and would defend to the death your right to hold it. But just don’t try to impose it everyone else, OK?

 

[Petergee]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I see noone here carrying out a death penalty on anyone. Or even threatening to. Or threatening anyone in any way. Or even attempting to judge anyone. Or claiming to be free of sin. Your comment is nothing but empty rhetoric.

Our Lord certainly did not say that we must refrain from saying that sin is sin. In fact He said the exact opposite.

 

[Petergee]

I know so many gays who’ve told me they didn’t want to be gay. They’ve prayed and prayed and prayed for God to make them straight, and it didn’t happen. I think if sexual orientation were easy to change, people would because they want to be married - they want a family, they want what everyone else wants. Some were literally kicked out of their families when they confessed they were gay.

I think it’s often a very heavy cross to bear… and not by their chosing.

I don’t understand how a person couldn’t have compassion for these people? I really don’t.

I don’t understand it either. But from the context of your comment you still seem to be implying that some people here are lacking in compassion for them.