B
Booklover
Guest
Excuse me! Islam’s plan is to take over the whole world and that’s no lie!
Vickie
- Status
Vickie
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
Try using your freedom of speech next time you are in a crowded movie theater and yell “FIRE!!!”. That’s freedom of speech, but it’s also irresponsible and could cause the death of many people. You would be fined and probably imprisoned by the local authorities.
This is equivalent to the cartoons. They have yelled fire in a crowded theater and then said they have the freedom to say what they want. It’s unethical and immoral and furthers the divide between faiths and peoples.
The relatively few nazi’s, gays and abortion protesters will not spark worldwide unrest because of their free speech. However, the insulting of a major religious figure in a worldwide and dominant faith has the potential of causing worldwide unrest and therein lies the problem. You can’t compare the groups mentioned above with Muslims.
Expressing your opinion can come at a heavy, heavy price. Instead of disparaging another faith or people, we should seek to understand each other and promote mutual respect.
Peace…
B
Booklover
Guest
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
First, show me what Islamic manifesto states this or state it from the Koran please.
Second, National Socialists parties want to take over the country and exlude all blacks, jews, homosexuals and other races. And then there’s admittedly white racist groups who want to gun down the above mentioned peoples for being who they are - RIGHT HERE in America!! Eco-terrorism is becoming a problem that the FBI is concerned about. And then there’s the gang problem - right here in America - right down your very own street.
The terrorists are already here - they can be normal, functional white Americans who just happened to hate everyone else. They are the person next door or down the street. It doesn’t take a Muslim to be a terrorist. It only takes a sick mind full of envy and greed - no matter the color, race or religion.
You would be appalled if you went to some of these hate groups websites and see what their plans are. Yet, you easily see the Muslims as being a danger and wanting to take over the world. Expand your horizons at your local level instead of looking only at what you THINK is happening on a worldwide scale.
Peace…
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
Afghanistan’s top Islamic organization. “We condemn the cartoons but this does not justify violence. These rioters are defaming the name of Islam.” *
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060208/ap_on_re_mi_ea/prophet_drawings
Some Muslims are speaking out and here is one example above.
Peace…
R
Robert_in_SD
Guest
ahimsaman72 said:
I think that the failure is in the muslim leadership, not the common “joe muslim” on the street. It is clearly an intentional decision of the radical muslim leadership to whip muslim sentiment to the flashpoint in the troubled areas of the world. Look at where all the rioting is occurring.
If there is going to be real and positive change then there must be a change in the policies of muslim leadership - a move towards conciliation and peaceful coexistence. Instead, what I see is a hardening of the fundamentalist islamist position in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the muslim centers of the world. Even in San Diego I see more muslims who are reverting to fundamentalist islamic ways. That is sad because it only alienates the muslims from the rest of the world and further solidifies all the prejudices that currently exist.
That being said…
I have to ask myself the question: Would the Prophet have wanted all this violence in his name over a handful of cartoons? If the answer is “yes” then I have some sincere concerns about the true nature of the muslim religion. If the answer is “no” then why all the bloodshed in his name?
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
Robert in SD:
There needs to be systematic discipline and bringing in of the fold (if you will) of extremists or expulsion of those extremists (fundamentalists) from the fold. As you know, the problem arises in the fact that there is no single head of Islam like there is in Catholicism.
This issue is indeed complicated and complex. It’s time for everyone to take a step back, assess what’s going on and attempt to fix it. That’s a tall order I’m afraid. But, we have no other viable choice but to make peaceful coexistence our goal and the only solution.
Thanks for your excellent comments.
Peace…
I agree wholeheartedly.
There needs to be systematic discipline and bringing in of the fold (if you will) of extremists or expulsion of those extremists (fundamentalists) from the fold. As you know, the problem arises in the fact that there is no single head of Islam like there is in Catholicism.
This issue is indeed complicated and complex. It’s time for everyone to take a step back, assess what’s going on and attempt to fix it. That’s a tall order I’m afraid. But, we have no other viable choice but to make peaceful coexistence our goal and the only solution.
Thanks for your excellent comments.
Peace…
W
wjohnson
Guest
I respectfully disagree with you here. I dont believe politacal or social commentary or protest’s equate to yelling “fire” in a crouded theatre.
I would compare the above groups to the cartoonist, not the Muslims.
I wholeheartily agree.
It turn’s out that there were much more offensive depictions of The Prophet that were misportrayed as coming from the Danish newspaper. It apears someone is misrepresenting facts to inflame the protesters.
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
I suppose we will have to disagree on this. I look at both situations equally. The cartoonists and newspapers started this mess. I don’t understand their reasoning in doing so to be honest. Was it to intentionally slander the prophet? I honestly couldn’t tell you what would make someone feel like this kind of cartoon depiction is beneficial to society.
The result is still the same. People have been killed and violence continues. It started with the cartoons and resembles the scenario of someone yelling “FIRE” in a crowded movie theatre. That’s just my opinion. I wish this whole thing would have never happened - the cartoons and the reaction to the cartoons.
Peace must be the way. Defend if we must against invaders, but peace must be the first option, not the only option.
Peace…
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
As regards the original topic title, “Why can’t Muslims take a joke?”:
I don’t think they see it as a joke. That’s pretty easy to verify. And anyone who thinks it is intrinsically funny should re-examine their thoughts and motives. I refuse to laugh at something meant to offend - whether it’s a kid calling another kid fat or ugly or retarded or whether it’s depicting a religious figure in a provocative, biased and unkind cartoon.
Who is laughing now? What great good has come of this insulting political and social commentary? No one is laughing and no good has come of it.
Peace be with you all…
I don’t think they see it as a joke. That’s pretty easy to verify. And anyone who thinks it is intrinsically funny should re-examine their thoughts and motives. I refuse to laugh at something meant to offend - whether it’s a kid calling another kid fat or ugly or retarded or whether it’s depicting a religious figure in a provocative, biased and unkind cartoon.
Who is laughing now? What great good has come of this insulting political and social commentary? No one is laughing and no good has come of it.
Peace be with you all…
I
inJESUS
Guest
About Islam taking over, its not something impossible; it’s a matter of time…just look at any place where they go to…halal shops, shopping from muslim clothes shops, islamic schools ecc but whats worse yet is that many do not integrate neither speak the language of the host country…just take the example of that nutcase who was bothered by the cross in a Catholic school in Italy !!and ask for it to be removed!! or muslims attacking Australian women on the beaches, telling them that their bikinis attract men to rape them ( according to their sheikhs), or muslim sheikh in Sweden asking women to wear “more decent” clothes to respect the “feelings” of the MINORITY…just imagine what could happen when they become more than a minority…in Saudi Arabia, if you dont go to pray at the specified time, the Mutawi’ harrass you, calling you names…and the list never ends…does this have to do with islam? sure…with quran? sure…is there a verse telling you to dominate the world? you bet…the quran even says that the religion of allah is islam…not to be ruled by non-moslems is a commandmant…if muslims do not apply them wherever they go, it’s because they can’t for many reason…but whenever they can, THEY WILL…and “moderate” muslims will join them…so lets not hide behind the shadow of our fingers…muslims’ aim is to dominate the world…it’s a matter of time for them…just read some muslim posts in here and you will understand how they are indoctrinated with “islam will rule the world”…i bet islam will rule the world, coz its leader is the king of this world.
B
Booklover
Guest
Do you believe that it’s possible to coexist with these people?
**Muslim protests **
When Muslims threaten, take it seriously.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/cartoon-protest8.jpg http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/cartoon-protest12.jpg
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
I personally don’t believe Islam will ever be the majority religion in this country nor will it ever become an Islamic state. It won’t happen. It is not realistic. There would be civil unrest and we would basically self-destruct.
This country (unlike many other European countries) has a deep, ingrained love for freedom - freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc that is really unequaled in the world. The people here (Christians, atheists, secular, etc) would never allow it to happen.
You didn’t show me where it says in the Koran that Muslims should dominate the world and all the other ideas you have about it. If it is such a controlling part of Muslim doctrine, show me. If it’s that blatant, show me. I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m simply trying to work this out methodically with facts and not feelings and conjectures.
THE SKY IS FALLING - THE SKY IS FALLING…
It’s not…really…it’s not.
I’ve had many Christian family and friends say to me lately, “the end is near…it’s just a matter of time before the end of the world” This is the kind of fundamentalist mayhem I have seen and heard over and over.
Recently, we’ve had Pat Robertson, (from the 700 Club) openly saying that the Venezuelan president should be shot. He also said that Katrina was God’s wrath on a ungodly place. He also said that a community in Pennsylvania might as well not call on God for help because they took God out of the schools.
I see NO difference in the rabid Christian fundamentalism movement and the fundamentalist Islamic movement. Go on a beach near my hometown and the men would probably tell you to put some clothes on too! And they are Christians!
Stop stereotyping Muslims. It’s not good for anybody.
Peace…
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
I’ve seen similar things happen at the funerals of homosexual men who have died displayed by the Westboro Baptist Church picketers in Oklahoma. So, is that indicative of all Christians?
Stop stereotyping.
I’m more fearful of the new MS13 Central American gangs that have grown in over 30 states in our country right now. They are the most dangerous gangs this country has ever seen. The crips and bloods pale in comparison to the criminal activity of this new group. And, they are soon to come to a neighborhood near you.
Peace…
D
discipleofJesus
Guest
Here are a few examples from the Quran and the Hadith
Quran:
Sura 9:29 (from 3 translations)
[Shakir 9:29] **Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger ** have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[Yusufali 9:29] **Fight those who believe not in Allah ** nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
[Pickthal 9:29] **Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah ** nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
Hadith:
Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0033:
“It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.”
Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 80:
‘Narrated Abu Huraira:
“The Verse:–“You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.” means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam.”’
[note: The verse it is referring to is Sura 3:110 in the Quran]
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:
'Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.”’
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 196:
'Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"’
Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4294:
“It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that **when the Messenger of Allah ** (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai’ except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them…”
I
inJESUS
Guest
B
bengeorge
Guest
You’re right, they’re absolutely identical in every respect. Remember the big uproar when Sinead O’Connor tore up pictures of the Pope? I myself shot three SNL comedians.
And when you say this:
I mean, that’s so true. They are both equally ridiculous, right? It’s like: draw some adolecent cartoons, blow up a few embassies and murder people, back and forth. So silly!
Your moral clarity astounds me.
P
Pjs2ejs
Guest
Posted by wjohnson “In America at least, freedom of speech allows all speech, even what you might find offensive.”
You said it. I think you meant freedom of religious and plitical expression.
You said it. I think you meant freedom of religious and plitical expression.
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
Good, at least I have something to work from. I was beginning to feel like I was in the Twilight Zone.
The verses from the Koran seem to be speaking mainly of tribute money to be paid and also of fighting. Now, is this fighting construed as physical or fighting as in “striving”? I sometimes say, “so and so was fighting with his wife”, when I really mean “arguing”.
And, is it possible that if the interpretation is “striving” then maybe these fundamentalist Muslims are re-interpreting for their modern agenda. Just thinking out loud here.
Peace…
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
If some Christian fundamentalists I know took over this country you would be without a place to worship. Catholics and Muslims would be out the door.
They are both wrong - not equally wrong, but both wrong. I never said they were equally wrong. So, that is you putting words in my mouth. The violence that ensued was far worse than the cartoons morally.
Your baseless rhetoric astounds me as well.
Peace…
- Status