Why Christians shouldn't drink alcohol (even if it's in moderation, it's a sin!)

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CaptFun said:
There is much in scripture against Drunkenness and it is one of the seven deadly sins.
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Do you mean gluttony? That might or might not include drunkenness. That’s up for debate.

Also, no one in this entire thread ever said that it’s sinful NOT to drink alcohol. So the OP is fine not drinking it, and others are fine drinking alcohol. What is not good to do is lecture others about a choice that is under our own discretion. Of course we are not talking about alcoholics. That’s another subject. But drinking alcohol, in moderation, is not sinful according to our Church or Jesus.
 
manualman said:
It’s an open and shut case: Jesus both drank wine and provided it for parties.

Either Jesus is a sinner or responsible alcohol use is moral. Those taking the first position have more serious theological problems to address!
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I think we all agree that moderate drinking is not a sin, the question is, when does it turn excessive?

You and me have probably totaly different standards about moderate drinking, for me a bottle of wine or two per day is moderate, compared to my consumption.
S:t Paul warned us about the abuse of alcohol more than once, but what is the standard for abuse?
 
anjoh66 said:
I think we all agree that moderate drinking is not a sin, the question is, when does it turn excessive?

You and me have probably totaly different standards about moderate drinking, for me a bottle of wine or two per day is moderate, compared to my consumption.
S:t Paul warned us about the abuse of alcohol more than once, but what is the standard for abuse?
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I think the standard of abuse is if it harms you or another person. If I go out drinking and drink so much that I black out or can’t remember parts of the night, that would definitely be considered harming myself and I could have possibly harmed another and not remember it. If drinking hinders your daily life, I think it would be abusing alcohol. I don’t think having a few drinks and blowing over a .08% is alcohol abuse.
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
I think the standard of abuse is if it harms you or another person.** If I go out drinking and drink so much that I black out or can’t remember parts of the night, that would definitely be considered harming myself and I could have possibly harmed another and not remember it. If drinking hinders your daily life, I think it would be abusing alcohol.** I don’t think having a few drinks and blowing over a .08% is alcohol abuse.
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Well that seems to me like an ordinary night out with good friends. 🙂
 
anjoh66 said:
I think we all agree that moderate drinking is not a sin, the question is, when does it turn excessive?

You and me have probably totaly different standards about moderate drinking, for me a bottle of wine or two per day is moderate, compared to my consumption.
S:t Paul warned us about the abuse of alcohol more than once, but what is the standard for abuse?
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You know very well the difference between alcoholics and non-alcoholics. A drunk cannot put down the drink once he/she starts drinking. If there is alcohol present, it WILL be consumed. Non-alcoholics can stop after 1 or 2, or even 3 drinks. They might not even enjoy that buzzed feeling, but once they experience it, they will cut back to having less alcohol instead of wanting more and more.

Abuse is when drinking is affecting your life in any negative way. If I am drinking to escape my problems, that is abuse. If I am drinking out of misery and anger, that is abuse. I think it has less to do with quantity than it has to do with the way I am using the substance. I could be having 1 drink a night and still be acting like an alcoholic. It’s the way you drink that constitutes abuse.
 
Becca3 said:
You mean to tell me that getting into the spiritual aspects of yoga is not ok according to Church mandates or standards?? Is it cuz it is considered heretical?? I am not following. :confused:

I think you can combine both the spiritual and physical aspects of yoga just like you can with the marital act as an example.
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Some people don’t realize you can do the physical excercises without worshipping Hindu gods. Go figure.
 
anjoh66 said:
I think we all agree that moderate drinking is not a sin, the question is, when does it turn excessive?

You and me have probably totaly different standards about moderate drinking, for me a bottle of wine or two per day is moderate, compared to my consumption.
S:t Paul warned us about the abuse of alcohol more than once, but what is the standard for abuse?
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That’s about as hard to define in legal terms as it is to draw the line between legitimate art and porn… and yet reasonable people are able to tell the difference all the time.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
You know very well the difference between alcoholics and non-alcoholics. A drunk cannot put down the drink once he/she starts drinking. If there is alcohol present, it WILL be consumed. Non-alcoholics can stop after 1 or 2, or even 3 drinks. They might not even enjoy that buzzed feeling, but once they experience it, they will cut back to having less alcohol instead of wanting more and more.

Abuse is when drinking is affecting your life in any negative way. If I am drinking to escape my problems, that is abuse. If I am drinking out of misery and anger, that is abuse. I think it has less to do with quantity than it has to do with the way I am using the substance. I could be having 1 drink a night and still be acting like an alcoholic. It’s the way you drink that constitutes abuse.
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Yes, if someone is a daily drinker, I think that they may have a problem.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
I think it has less to do with quantity than it has to do with the way I am using the substance.
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👍 I’d agree with that 100%.

I’ll admit that, on ocassion, I do like a social drink or 6, so I had a chat with my priest in confessional about whether or not it is sinful to get drink, and get drunk, with friends. The advice to me was that so long as it is done in the spirit of friendship and camaraderie, and there are no wrong actions or ill-intent involved, then it is not sinful. But there is the need to be careful, which you can be even when drunk. It may leave certain people open to the risk of committing sin, but it is not in itself sinful, and the loss of inhibitions while under the influence is often very much influenced by the mindset of the person and whether or not they are drinking with an intent to lose their inhibitions.
 
The fact is that the bible has much more to say about the negative effects of alcohol than it has to say about the positive effects.

Alcohol has some positive effects thats for sure, for example, one who drinks a maximum of 2 glasses of wine per day live longer than those who doesnt drink at all, thats a scientific fact.

Unfortunately alcohol has a lot more negative effects, lets look at some verses from the bible about its negative effects.
  1. Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.
  2. Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality
  3. Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.
  4. Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.
  5. Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.
  6. Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
  7. Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.
  8. Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.
  9. 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.
  10. 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.
  11. 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.
  12. 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.
  13. 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated
  14. 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.
  15. Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.
  16. Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.
  17. Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.
  18. Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.
  19. Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.
  20. Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.
  21. Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.
  22. Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.
  23. Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.
  24. Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.
  25. Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable
  26. Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.
  27. Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.
  28. Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.
  29. Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)
  30. Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.
  31. Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.
  32. Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to “champion” drinkers and “experts” at mixing drinks.
  33. Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit.
  34. Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.
  35. Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.
  36. Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.
  37. Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.
  38. Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.
  39. Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.
  40. Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.
  41. Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.
  42. Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.
  43. Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.
  44. Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.
  45. Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.
  46. Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.
  47. Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.
  48. Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.
  49. Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.
  50. Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.
  51. Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.
  52. Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.
  53. Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.
  54. Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.
  55. Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.
  56. Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.
  57. Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.
  58. Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.
 
And from the New testamente
  1. Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.
  2. Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.
  3. Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.
  4. Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.
  5. Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.
  6. Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.
  7. 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.
  8. 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God
  9. Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.
  10. Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.
  11. 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.
  12. 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
  13. 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.
  14. 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.
  15. Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.
  16. Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.
  17. 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
You know very well the difference between alcoholics and non-alcoholics. A drunk cannot put down the drink once he/she starts drinking. If there is alcohol present, it WILL be consumed. Non-alcoholics can stop after 1 or 2, or even 3 drinks. They might not even enjoy that buzzed feeling, but once they experience it, they will cut back to having less alcohol instead of wanting more and more.

Abuse is when drinking is affecting your life in any negative way. If I am drinking to escape my problems, that is abuse. If I am drinking out of misery and anger, that is abuse. I think it has less to do with quantity than it has to do with the way I am using the substance. I could be having 1 drink a night and still be acting like an alcoholic. It’s the way you drink that constitutes abuse.
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Yes, like i told you before:

Its not what you do, its how you do it.
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
Yes, if someone is a daily drinker, I think that they may have a problem.
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I disagree, to a certain extent. My uncle had one beer, every evening, and only one. He lived to the age of 98 and was no way a functioning alcoholic or any type of alcoholic for that matter. Many adults have a glass of wine with dinner every night as well. I don’t think one can say that someone that has some alcohol on a daily basis necessarily has a problem.
 
And those are ALL from the OT. We are under the New Covenant of Jesus in the New Testament. Jesus made wine out of water and consecrated wine into His Precious Blood and commanded us to drink it and remember Him. It is not sinful to drink alcohol in moderation.
 
LilyM said:
Many a priest drinks every day and twice or more on Sundays. They have a problem?
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OMG. If drinking hinders your daily life, there is a problem. If someone thinks that they HAVE to have a drink every single day. Then there MAY be a problem. I didn’t say that they do have a problem, I said they MAY have a problem. Do not try to twist what I said.
 
PatriceA said:
I disagree, to a certain extent. My uncle had one beer, every evening, and only one. He lived to the age of 98 and was no way a functioning alcoholic or any type of alcoholic for that matter. Many adults have a glass of wine with dinner every night as well. I don’t think one can say that someone that has some alcohol on a daily basis necessarily has a problem.
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Same with one relative of mine. Has a drink pretty much every day when circumstances allow. He gives it up for Lent every year without a problem though. I don’t think he is alcoholic at all.
 
PatriceA said:
I disagree, to a certain extent. My uncle had one beer, every evening, and only one. He lived to the age of 98 and was no way a functioning alcoholic or any type of alcoholic for that matter. Many adults have a glass of wine with dinner every night as well. I don’t think one can say that someone that has some alcohol on a daily basis necessarily has a problem.
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I said MAY have a problem. If you get off work and every single day you go home and get drunk, then you may have a problem. 🤷 I didn’t say that do have a problem.
 
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