Why communion rails matter

[PaulinVA]

That may have been how it was, but is that how it would be?

That’s a fair question. I think that there are a lot of factors in the Church that contribute to our lack of reverence and belief. Altar railings won’t instantly cure anything.

It took decades for us to get to where we are. It will take decades to revive the reverence and belief. But, we have to start somewhere.

I do want to move forward, not backward, but sometimes things from the past are a great help for the future.

 

[clem456]

What Church document states that we have infinite dignity as men? Being created “in the image of God” is not the same thing as being created “in the nature of God.” As far as penance, Our Lord himself said that we would do penance after he ascended into Heaven, because we still sin. We need penance to help conform us more closely to Christ precisely because we are not yet completed in our transformation into Christlike persons. We are not God. Therefore, we do penance. We are not infinitely dignified - only God is. We are reflections of that perfection, and we draw our limited dignity from his infinite dignity, but it is pride to say that we do not bow before the all-holy God because we are so dignified.

WRT the OP’s topic, if God can utterly humble Himself to assume the form of Bread and Wine for me to consume, then this poor sinner can kneel to receive Him. It’s the absolute *least *thing I could do to return the gesture.

We are made in the image of God. Our dignity is in God, who is infinite. The dignity we receive from God does not fade. As long as God gazes on us (eternity), we have it. It is God-given. Even when we abuse it, we still have it, cause we are made in the image of God. I don’t think Tim meant to say that infinity itself is part of our nature.

We owe God reverence and worship. That does not consist of crawling or kneeling or any other particular posture. We are not a Church that proposes particular physical observances or acts of penance as the essence of the Gospel message. As evidence, we have a long history of traditional practice in receiving communion in both postures, as well as in the hand on the tongue etc…Those practices are not the essence of the Eucharist or the Church.

Humility does not consist of postures either. A humble person may have postures. Another humble person may have different postures. Each person will know in his or her heart what advances them in humility. I would think humility would accept the postures the Church does accept and practice and not question and compare the humility of others. According to the writings of some saints, trying to pursue and practice humility will surely not get you there.

 

[GangGreen]

I stumbled across this excellent article about why communion rails and receiving on the tongue need to come back. (into the OF)…they are clearly still in the EF Mass…

Communion Rails

Great article . The EWTN video posted in this thread was great too. It’s great to hear that there are voices in the Church calling for the return to these older and more reverent traditions. I think we’re starting to see a return in some ways, it may be slow and it may take time, but it will happen eventually.

 

[Aran_Houlihan]

Great article . The EWTN video posted in this thread was great too. It’s great to hear that there are voices in the Church calling for the return to these older and more reverent traditions. I think we’re starting to see a return in some ways, it may be slow and it may take time, but it will happen eventually.

all the catholic churches should return to these older and more reverent traditions

 

[GangGreen]

all the catholic churches should return to these older and more reverent traditions

They should and I pray that they will. Although such a transformation will take time. It won’t be as abrupt as what happened in the late 60s/early 70s. I just hope it happens in my lifetime. The sooner the better.

 

[dshix]

Well, some can’t kneel or crawl, BUT, I’m not sure that a break-neck speed procession up to the EMHC, slowing slightly to receive and then taking five steps while consuming the Host is proper, either.

For those who remember the railing, one would process up to the front, and then wait for a space to become free at the railing. One would kneel, and then have several minutes to praqy/prepare before the priest would come by and you would receive. Then, you could pause for a few seconds (or however long) and slowly get up and return to your pew.

It was reverent, it was efficient, and it was much more conducive to realizing exactly who we were receiving.

Very true. Aside from the reverence (which is always present) the altar rail speeds up communion quite a bit. A single priest can distribute at at *least *twice the speed, and the people aren’t rushed at all. Take your time kneeling, take your time to get up again.

 

[maryjk]

Very true. Aside from the reverence (which is always present) the altar rail speeds up communion quite a bit. A single priest can distribute at at *least *twice the speed, and the people aren’t rushed at all. Take your time kneeling, take your time to get up again.

And just ignore the person standing behind you waiting for you to get up.

 

[dshix]

And just ignore the person standing behind you waiting for you to get up.

First, by “take your time” I don’t mean kneel there for thirty seconds, I mean you don’t have to step aside instantly for the next person, you can stay for a second or two and then get up.

Second, I should note that it doesn’t sound like you’ve received at an altar rail very often. Where I attend, (and every other traditional Mass parish I’ve been to) the priest is usually distributing at such a pace that people in line waiting to kneel still haven’t even made it to the spots two and three places over at the rail. You can take your time without slowing progress.

(However, this doesn’t apply if at the place you go you line up behind the people kneeling instead of coming from the center line. Both methods are equally efficient.)

 

[maryjk]

First, by “take your time” I don’t mean kneel there for thirty seconds, I mean you don’t have to step aside instantly for the next person, you can stay for a second or two and then get up.

Maybe that is the way is it suppose to work. But will it? Does it? I can say that it doesn’t work that way everywhere.

In addition, think about it. It would be the same people receiving that are rushing around now. They would simply go from receiving standing to receiving kneeling. The act of kneeling won’t suddenly change their heart.

Second, I should note that it doesn’t sound like you’ve received at an altar rail very often. Where I attend, (and every other traditional Mass parish I’ve been to) the priest is usually distributing at such a pace that people in line waiting to kneel still haven’t even made it to the spots two and three places over at the rail. You can take your time without slowing progress.

By “traditional Mass parish,” what do you mean? EF?

(However, this doesn’t apply if at the place you go you line up behind the people kneeling instead of coming from the center line. Both methods are equally efficient.)

That may have been how it was, but is that how it would be?

I am too young to remember kneeling to receive. But I have received kneeling at a couple of different churches, including the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament near EWTN.

It probably didn’t take much to figure out that I don’t receive kneeling very often. To say nothing of the fact that earlier in the thread I told everyone that I would have a very hard time standing up from a kneeling position.

 

[Brendan]

We have three priests and three deacons, too. But we also have 9 Masses (2 Sat vigil, 7 Sunday, including 6 back-to-back on Sunday morning). I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect all the priests and deacons to show up at every Mass. .

We have pretty much the same. 2 priests, 2 active deacons + 1 ‘senior’ Deacon and a 1 Chaldean SubDeacon.

We have almost the exact same Mass schedule. 2 Vigil ( 1 being an EF Mass) and 6 Sunday Masses, three of which are back to back. There is ‘break’ between the end of the 11:30 Mass and the start of the 1:30pm Mass in which the priests can grab a bite to eat. And then there are 6:30pm and 8:30pm Sunday evening Masses.

Both priests help to distribute Holy Communion at every Mass. The deacons (and Sub-Deacon) will split up so each cover at least two Masses.

Between them, they will cover the distribution of Holy Communion. They do so at the altar rail, and the priests will offer both species via Intinction.

The priest who is not celebrating, and the deacon who is not assisting will ‘rest’ while Mass is going on, and then come up in time to assist with distribution.

It works pretty well, and the Subdeacon is the only EMHC in use. All of them are not needed at every Mass, as we use the Communion rail and Intinction.

 

[Lormar]

We have pretty much the same. 2 priests, 2 active deacons + 1 ‘senior’ Deacon and a 1 Chaldean SubDeacon.

We have almost the exact same Mass schedule. 2 Vigil ( 1 being an EF Mass) and 6 Sunday Masses, three of which are back to back. There is ‘break’ between the end of the 11:30 Mass and the start of the 1:30pm Mass in which the priests can grab a bite to eat. And then there are 6:30pm and 8:30pm Sunday evening Masses.

Both priests help to distribute Holy Communion at every Mass. The deacons (and Sub-Deacon) will split up so each cover at least two Masses.

Between them, they will cover the distribution of Holy Communion. They do so at the altar rail, and the priests will offer both species via Intinction.

The priest who is not celebrating, and the deacon who is not assisting will ‘rest’ while Mass is going on, and then come up in time to assist with distribution.

It works pretty well, and the Subdeacon is the only EMHC in use. All of them are not needed at every Mass, as we use the Communion rail and Intinction.

You are very, very blessed to be in such a good parish.

 

[dshix]

Maybe that is the way is it suppose to work. But will it? Does it? I can say that it doesn’t work that way everywhere.

Heh, it does work unless done improperly. I don’t know what people were thinking, removing the altar rail, because they pretty much doubled the time it takes to give communion.

In addition, think about it. It would be the same people receiving that are rushing around now. They would simply go from receiving standing to receiving kneeling. The act of kneeling won’t suddenly change their heart.

That is not necessarily the only purpose of the rail. However, it does indeed increase the feeling of reverence in the parish. In general, I see more reverence in an EF parish than most OF parishes: in the latter, there is talking IN the church before, after and during the mass, and the former has almost none (this is my personal experience in the many parishes I’ve been at). This reverence has to be caused by something, and I think the altar rail may very well contribute.

By “traditional Mass parish,” what do you mean? EF?

Yes. I apologize for the confusion, I thought everyone knew that.

It probably didn’t take much to figure out that I don’t receive kneeling very often. To say nothing of the fact that earlier in the thread I told everyone that I would have a very hard time standing up from a kneeling position.

I did not see any of your former posts, so I was not aware. In your case, if you cannot kneel, you can simply stand at the rail and the priest will let you receive standing. This is what all older folks who cannot kneel do.

 

[maryjk]

Yes. I apologize for the confusion, I thought everyone knew that.

Sorry, there isn’t such a thing as a “traditional Mass parish.” There is only the Ordinary Form(OF) of the Mass and the Extraordinary Form of the Mass (EF). A parish is neither one nor the other.

The problem is: the Communion rail isn’t a cure all. If there are problems in the parish, be it 10 EMHC or people receiving Communion like a Chicklet, simply having a Communion rail isn’t what is needed to fix it. Yes, the Communion rail might stop the "need"of 10 EMHC, but it won’t stop the attitude.

It also won’t help the poor priest that has to preside over 4 Masses a day, without help. Even if he uses a Communion rail that kneels maybe 20. How many times would he need to walk back and forth? (Hint: our parish has 1000 families and 2000 students as members.)

 

[dshix]

Sorry, there isn’t such a thing as a “traditional Mass parish.” There is only the Ordinary Form(OF) of the Mass and the Extraordinary Form of the Mass (EF). A parish is neither one nor the other.

The “Traditional Latin Mass” is equivalent to saying “Extraordinary Form,” and if you still disagree, there’s no discussion to be had, as there’s nothing for you to say to convince me otherwise.

The problem is: the Communion rail isn’t a cure all. If there are problems in the parish, be it 10 EMHC or people receiving Communion like a Chicklet, simply having a Communion rail isn’t what is needed to fix it. Yes, the Communion rail might stop the "need"of 10 EMHC, but it won’t stop the attitude.

It also won’t help the poor priest that has to preside over 4 Masses a day, without help. Even if he uses a Communion rail that kneels maybe 20. How many times would he need to walk back and forth? (Hint: our parish has 1000 families and 2000 students as members.)

I was primarily speaking of the average EF parish, with about 500 families, more or less, and with more than one priest. My parish is FSSP, and just about all parishes have at least two, possibly three priests.

I understand this isn’t possible for every Church, so I’m not saying something’s wrong with your parish if you don’t have more than one priest.

Furthermore, I don’t think that the altar rail being suddenly placed into every parish will fix anything. The culture of reverence and personal holiness in OF parishes has devolved so far that it will really take a widespread revival in the Church to bring us back to where we were before.

 

[clem456]

I was primarily speaking of the average EF parish, with about 500 families, more or less, and with more than one priest. My parish is FSSP, and just about all parishes have at least two, possibly three priests.

I understand this isn’t possible for every Church, so I’m not saying something’s wrong with your parish if you don’t have more than one priest.

Furthermore, I don’t think that the altar rail being suddenly placed into every parish will fix anything. **The culture of reverence and personal holiness in OF parishes has devolved so far **that it will really take a widespread revival in the Church to bring us back to where we were before.

This is really insulting to the majority of Catholics.
But, I am breathing a sigh of relief to know nothing is wrong with my parish, since we do indeed have two priests. Thanks for the support!

 

[maryjk]

I was primarily speaking of the average EF parish, with about 500 families, more or less, and with more than one priest. My parish is FSSP, and just about all parishes have at least two, possibly three priests.

I understand this isn’t possible for every Church, so I’m not saying something’s wrong with your parish if you don’t have more than one priest.

Furthermore, I don’t think that the altar rail being suddenly placed into every parish will fix anything. The culture of reverence and personal holiness in OF parishes has devolved so far that it will really take a widespread revival in the Church to bring us back to where we were before.

This is really insulting to the majority of Catholics.
But, I am breathing a sigh of relief to know nothing is wrong with my parish, since we do indeed have two priests. Thanks for the support!

Yes it is insulting. Very.

 

[moon1234]

Sorry, there isn’t such a thing as a “traditional Mass parish.” There is only the Ordinary Form(OF) of the Mass and the Extraordinary Form of the Mass (EF). **A parish is neither one nor the other. **

This is not true. There are many parishes that are only one. 99.9% are OF only. The FSSP, ICRSS, etc. are EF only parishes. They do not say the OF at all. These EF parishes are sometimes referred to as traditional parishes.

The problem is: the Communion rail isn’t a cure all. If there are problems in the parish, be it 10 EMHC or people receiving Communion like a Chicklet, simply having a Communion rail isn’t what is needed to fix it. Yes, the Communion rail might stop the "need"of 10 EMHC, but it won’t stop the attitude.

This is proven false by many parishes who institute a communion rail and communion on the tongue only. This is most common in EF parishes since Rome has said communion in the hand is not allowed in EF parishes. They must follow the rules in force in 1962. This, many times, leads to a person questioning WHY he has to kneel or why he has to receive on the tongue. This then becomes an education moment for the person. Many times this leads to a deeper love for Christ present in the Eucharist. The very fact that we kneel down and have some one put the host in our mouth sets this action apart from normal eating. When we don’t refer to the Mass as a “meal” then we get away from the idea of communion as part of the “meal”

It also won’t help the poor priest that has to preside over 4 Masses a day, without help. Even if he uses a Communion rail that kneels maybe 20. How many times would he need to walk back and forth? (Hint: our parish has 1000 families and 2000 students as members.)

This is a canard. The amount of steps back and forth at a communion rail is very small. In a parish with 2000 people there will NOT be just one priest. Two or more priests at a communion rail will go VERY quickly. 400 people at our parish receive communion in under 10 minutes with only ONE priest. The choir can barely get through two or three short communion songs.

 

[maryjk]

This is a canard. The amount of steps back and forth at a communion rail is very small. In a parish with 2000 people there will NOT be just one priest. Two or more priests at a communion rail will go VERY quickly. 400 people at our parish receive communion in under 10 minutes with only ONE priest. The choir can barely get through two or three short communion songs.

Where are you going to find these extra priests?

As I said, until very recently, we had one priest. Now we have two. The likelihood of having “or more” isn’t real high.

If the number of steps are “very small,” then not as many people fit. My guess was 20, if you reduce that number to 10 people, then that means more back and forth. We currently have 4 Sunday Masses where we seat between 300 to 700 at each Mass. (And we are expanding in the next year or so.)

Again, the problem you are having is assuming that everyone that currently attends an OF Mass will suddenly and collectively change their attitude simply because they receive while kneeling. (and on the tongue.) I just don’t see that happening.

 

[Cat]

Where are you going to find these extra priests?

As I said, until very recently, we had one priest. Now we have two. The likelihood of having “or more” isn’t real high.

If the number of steps are “very small,” then not as many people fit. My guess was 20, if you reduce that number to 10 people, then that means more back and forth. We currently have 4 Sunday Masses where we seat between 300 to 700 at each Mass. (And we are expanding in the next year or so.)

Again, the problem you are having is assuming that everyone that currently attends an OF Mass will suddenly and collectively change their attitude simply because they receive while kneeling. (and on the tongue.) I just don’t see that happening.

I agree with what you say in your posts.

Frankly, I find it irreverent that laypeople on an online forum, who have no personal knowledge of a parish or diocese and the priests, feel that they can pass judgement and cast doubts upon the actions of priests who choose to make use of EMsHC instead of appearing at every Mass to help with distributing Holy Communion.

Who are we laypeople to question the ordained servants of the Lord Jesus? Who are we to assume that because we have read through the various Church documents, that we have more knowledge about the Mass and being a pastor than those men who have spent years studying these things at a seminary? And who are we to drop hints about a priest’s practices that might cause a weaker Christian to develop doubts about their priest or bishop, and their Church, and possibly even the Lord Jesus?

 

[moon1234]

If all priests were 100% perfect, then yes blind obediance would be fine. Priests are human, just like the rest of us. Sometimes they go astray (Martin Luther, he was a Catholic Priest after all) and when people just blindly follow, bad things can happen.

A Priest has a solemn duty before God to tend to God’s people. When a Priest decides to abdicate this duty to someone else, he not only deprives the people of receiving from the person ordained by God, but also deprives himself from acting in persona Christi.

People are not passing judgement, they are just pointing out that the law of belief follows the law of prayer. Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. How we pray is how we believe.