Why Contraception is wrong?

[Wormwood]

oh yes and…

Is this the same Wormwood from ‘The Screwtape Letters’ ?

or the Wormwood from the OT??:

I answered you in detail on the other forum. Applause to you once more for noticing…what made you look it up just out of curiousity? The answer is from revelation, but I believe there is mention of the correct usage in the OT. Punishment from God in the form of…

 

[Beaver]

Wormwood:

Where does it say pray to other human beings? If the prayers of the righteous are better than yours, then should YOU not strive to be righteous, or does it mean we are all hopeless sinners and righteousness is out of reach? This passage indicates no proof as it is subject to interpretation.

Striving for righteousness is part of conversion. We all are striving to be saints.

  **We are only asking the saint to pray with us for these humans and ourselves.**

Wormwood:

OK for the “sack” of conversation, do you realize not once but twice you have tried to justify condemning other people based on religious beliefs. I was under the impression that Christianity was a religion of brotherly love, not naziesque assimilation. What if Jesus is like that, then on judgement day when he is standing with the rest of the hebrews you can dialogue for some conversion.

Too late, but you do bring up an interesting point. Did Jesus assimilate the church? The answer is yes and He did it just as Joseph did it to form the nation of Israel through forgiveness.

Wormwood:

The pope gets a larger reception than most entertainers and atheletes combined, yet is it not the meek who shall inherit the earth? Where does the popemobile fit into that? To some your beliefs seem strange too, but that gives them no right to condemn you…think of your early christian martyrs.

**
Could be the Pope’s meekness that attracts them?

---

The first martyr was Abel and we all hear the blood of Abel cry out Resurrection.**

 

[kirabira]

ok I’m a woman- I absolutely believe in a " theres no doubt in my mind that contraception is wrong" way. I dont believe this is a teaching men made up- it coems from God.

1. it’s found in the bible ot/nt, the didache church fathers. its not true that contraception or abortion is ‘new’. Its mentioned in the bible and was considered ‘sorcery’. “potions” women would get were for contraception/ abortion
2. To address the quandry of why women should abstain during the fertile period when they want to have sex more. I think you have to ask what can God be teaching us here? What good is it for a woman to have sex outside of a time where shes simply “horny”? My answers are that having sex outside of the ‘fertile period’ means (a) more sex (b) a deeper understanding of sex (c) just because you arent ‘horny’ doesnt mean sex is pointless-- its an exercise of realization that sex is good and holy-- and I hate to repeat myself but it leads to (d) more sex which means more bonding with your husband. Husbands typically like sex a lot. Isnt it nice to have this awesome gift?
3. I think you can know these natural truths by looking just at the physical world. Contraception is BAD for the environment.

(a)Contraceptives are contaminating the water systems. Our treatment plants arent able to remove these substances from the water. They infect fish and other wildlife messing them up genetically and resulting in reproduction problems for these animals!
(b) Contraceptives are linked to cancers.

(c) Contaceptives are linked to infertiliy or fertility problems.

(d) Contraceptives result in more ‘failures’ because they are used during the woman’s fertile time. Theres a bigger margin of error with contraceptives than the manufacturers let on. If you ever work in a PG crisis center or hear stories of friends who opps became PG using some form of contraceptives the proof is all there.
The only TRULY effective method for preventing conception is to not engage in sex. Theres no rule that says you must have sex during your fertile cycle, and if you are using NFP you are open to God blessing you which leads me to…

1. USing NFP might indeed make you a parent- not because the method ‘fails’ but because you actually WANT to have kids!
2. No one knows how many children they will have. Its untru to assume you’ll somehow have 10 if you arent ‘contracepting’

–K

 

[johnnyjoe]

Shibboleth:

I am not talking about not releasing ones seed. I am talking about only releasing ones seed when it is not effective, thereby intentionally sending it to waste.

People that abstain will have nighttime emissions but this is not an intentional matter. Luther actually battled with this when he was still a monk. He was told that he was missing the point.

A man who makes love to his wife NEVER has his seed “sent to waste”. You appear to still believe that the unitive aspect of the marital embrace does not exist. Your statement about “intentionally sending it to waste” can be said for 60% of the marital relations any healthy young couple has. If a couple uses no methodology at all for understanding the fertility cycle, and engages in the marital embrace during the fertile time, they only have a 40% chance of conceiving in any given cycle. By your logic, I suppose, you would call that “unintentional waste”, and to follow your logic correctly then, any couple who would want to steer clear of “intentional waste” would be restricted from engaging in the marital embrace to ONLY the fertile time.

You seem to think a couple should make love to procreate only if they are fertile, and if they become infertile, then they can make love whenever they want to…

 

[Nathan_s_King]

Wormwood:

My aren’t I the popular one? Yes and aligator dung was used in egypt, I was refering to a global scale, but this works even better. So if they WERE widely known and used in the area in which Jesus lived, why then no mention on the subject from Jesus himself. If he found this practice abhorrant, why not say something?

Well, as I mentioned, there are those passages in Galatians and Revelation (which by the way, often are translated as “sorcery” or “potions” in case you have trouble figuring it what I’m talking about). At any rate, the practice was I think largely confined to Greece and Rome, so it didn’t seem so affect the very early Church. Perhaps Jesus didn’t think he needed to warn his Jewish audience about something they were already avoiding.

Oh, and there are the passages about Onan, too - Genesis 38.

The early church did take up the issue as they came into contact with the Greeks and Romans, but it’s not in the Bible.

Wormwood:

You can’t be serious?! The world’s population is at an all time high, reaching critical mass in some regions. Do you honestly think because some drunk teenagers use protection and don’t ruin their lives that the worlds population of 6 billion + people, many of whom already have birthcontrol methods, will go extinct?

Where ever large scale use of ABC exists, the population declines precipitously. Granted, other areas of the world are still growing, but the world’s total population growth is slowing. Some claim in another 50 years it will begin to reverse and the population will drop. Regardless, it seems unavoidable that western society is depopulating. In Italy, Germany, Japan, France, and other countries the average woman is having 1.3 to 1.6 children. That’s 30% or more below replacement level. Worse, the fertility rates are continuing to drop. We in the US have just dropped below replacement level.

Granted, there are some instances where, for good reasons, people may decide that having another child would over burden the environment. And for that, we believe NFP is appropriate.

Wormwood:

Very astute. Sadly I know my place and it is not among the righteous. Please don’t regaurd me as “holier than thou”, I will be the first to aknowledge my wickedness.

You’re welcome to the chair next to mine here in the sinner’s section.

 

[Beaver]

Let’s return to the basics.

Is God the Creator?

Is heaven going to deal with creating?

Will we participate in creation then?

Are miracles acts of creation?

Is there procreation in hell?

Is contracepting a violation of a creative act? Why?