Why Did God Create Man and the Demons if He Knew They Would Disobey Him?

[Melodeonist]

Since God knows all things, past, present, and future, why did God still create Man and the Demons? Both beings turned against him/disobeyed him.

 

[1ke]

Because God is Love.

I suggest the book Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed to assist you in these types of questions.

 

[1neophyte]

Because hesed.

 

[jlhargus]

Since God knows all things, past, present, and future, why did God still create Man and the Demons? Both beings turned against him/disobeyed him.

Not all the angels turned away from God only about a third. He still created man out of love for the many who would turn again to Him. God gives everyone grace to turn to Him but not all do, but many do.

 

[pacloc]

Since God knows all things, past, present, and future, why did God still create Man and the Demons? Both beings turned against him/disobeyed him.

Something that is not taught too often anymore is that Adam and Eve although sinless, were immature and would be taught through lessons from God, one of which was the rule with the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God foreknew the fall as you have mentioned, but was able to make use of it to raise humanity and the angelic order higher than if they never experienced a fall. God uses images of Gold being refined in fire, a shepherd having more joy over 1 sheep that was lost and was found than 99 that were never lost. Paul says where sin abound, grace abounded even more. The idea is that by truly experiencing either in your own life or by seeing it in other’s lives the choices of good and evil, if you choose good, it can become a solid, unmovable way, which is part of the process of truly becoming like Christ, impassible and fixed in God’s will.

This is from Romans 9:22,23: “What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.”

This means that although He knew some, maybe a lot of humans and angels would choose evil, that to Him it is worth having their loss, which they bring on themselves because they could have easily chosen to be vessels of mercy, because the vessels of mercy will be One with God, full of God’s glory, deified. In His foreknowledge and Providence, this is the best way to accomplish His will.

 

[AveOTheotokos]

God created man so that he could come to know Him, love Him, and serve Himin this life and be eternally happy with Him in the next.

Why did God create angels who would fall, or why did He allow Adam and Eve the chance to sin, or why did he create them in the first place if they would turn away from His will?

God is love and out of that love he desires to create and share that love. In order to do that, man He created angels and then man and gave them a free choice to choose his love or not.

If God only chose to create the creatures that he knew beforehand would choose to love him, then it’s not really any different than forcing his creations to “love” him. He loved us not only when we choose Him, but even after we reject Him and His love.

Love must be chosen. In order to choose something, there must be something to choose between. If there is not, then there is no choice.

The choice the angels made was eternal and cannot be changed because their decision was made with full knowledge. No new information is possible to change their minds because they are outside of time. There is no new knowledge they can attain that will change their minds.

The choice Adam and Eve were given is between love and a lack thereof: God being love, and evil being a lack of God. Because humans do not have perfect full knowledge, they have a unique ability to choose or reject God and his grace on a daily (or hourly, every minute/second, etc…) basis.

He did this because, God being love itself, He could not act against Himself and force us to love Him, because if it were forced, then it would not be a genuine, agape love, since love is not an act of force, but an act of the will.

The choice of love happens not in our affections or thoughts or words, but in our actions, and in order for it to be true genuine love, it has to be our choice. Love is a verb that must be constantly and freely chosen and acted upon.

Even though Adam and Eve chose to reject God’s will and fell, it does not necessarily mean this was a bad thing.

God saw that it would happen, and He also saw what great good would come from it. Jesus becoming our Savior, the pure and perfect creation, life, death, and assumption of Mary, all the great saints, and all the great merit, blessings, and grace we would receive this way, higher degrees of heaven and being closer to God by our redemptive sufferings and sacrifices on earth, etc…

We cannot judge the beneficial or detrimental nature of an event based solely on the effect on the event and its participants. Rather, it is only after examining the long term outcome of the event can an assessment of its necessity be determined. We as humans can only make feeble attempts to grasp the concepts that are of God.

This quote from Saint Basil the Great sums up this concept: “It is easier to measure the entire sea with a tiny cup than to grasp the ineffable greatness of God with the human mind.”

It is only He who possesses the wisdom and all-knowing understanding necessary to determine the necessity of that which He allows.

Ultimately, the question can, in a simple way, be answered like this:
Why did God allowed for the fall of Adam and Eve?

God permitted Adam and Eve to fall in order to fully manifest His love for us by the revelation of His mercy and His justice that is brought to fullness through the redemptive Incarnation of His Son (the new Adam) through Mary’s (the new Eve’s) fiat.

His allowing of their fall demonstrates not only his selfless love by offering us a free-will choice to love him, but also the love that is in his endless forgiveness and mercy towards us. Because of this, we experience a more complete version of His love.

 

[Stephen_says]

I think that’s kind of like asking a married couple why they got married. Didn’t they know that they were going to fight sometimes?

Maybe it’s not a perfect analogy, but it’s similar I think.

 

[meltzerboy]

Due to man’s free will, s/he can choose to better themselves with G-d’s help. This self-improvement is even more commendable in the eyes of G-d than the actions of one who is consistently righteous. This is because the one who misses the mark (sins) but repents by literally turning away from his disobedience toward G-d has achieved more holiness and has learned more than one who has less to repent.

 

[JM3]

God is perfect.

Everything God does is perfect.

That you do not understand does not make God, or what He does, less perfect.

 

[pacloc]

Due to man’s free will, s/he can choose to better themselves with G-d’s help. This self-improvement is even more commendable in the eyes of G-d than the actions of one who is consistently righteous. This is because the one who misses the mark (sins) but repents by literally turning away from his disobedience toward G-d has achieved more holiness and has learned more than one who has less to repent.

I think I know what you mean, but the way in which you have written it can be read wrong. It would be a contradiction to Christian Scripture, and I’m sure to the Old Testament too, but not sure where off of the top of my head, to say that those that sin and repent are greater than those that do not sin, given that we are talking about in the same world. Christ did not have to sin to become greater. He became sin, meaning his humbling himself by taking on humanity, experiencing sin all around Him, and voluntarily experienced the effects of the fall by assuming a mortal body and passionate soul. Likewise, all that is valuable to the righteous is the pressure from the effects of sin, not falling into sin itself, which is never good. In God’s mercy we can recover, but he that never enters into sin is greater and will be rewarded with much more than he that has fallen into sin and repents. The most Holy Virgin is the greatest of all creation, greater than the Seraphim and Cherubim, precisely for being in a sinful world, but never sinning herself.

 

[meltzerboy]

I think I know what you mean, but the way in which you have written it can be read wrong. It would be a contradiction to Christian Scripture, and I’m sure to the Old Testament too, but not sure where off of the top of my head, to say that those that sin and repent are greater than those that do not sin, given that we are talking about in the same world. Christ did not have to sin to become greater. He became sin, meaning his humbling himself by taking on humanity, experiencing sin all around Him, and voluntarily experienced the effects of the fall by assuming a mortal body and passionate soul. Likewise, all that is valuable to the righteous is the pressure from the effects of sin, not falling into sin itself, which is never good. In God’s mercy we can recover, but he that never enters into sin is greater and will be rewarded with much more than he that has fallen into sin and repents. The most Holy Virgin is the greatest of all creation, greater than the Seraphim and Cherubim, precisely for being in a sinful world, but never sinning herself.

Of course, in Christian theology, Jesus and Mary are rather special, to say the least. Nonetheless, according to Jewish theology, given that we all sin more or less, there is much virtue in the atonement from sin as an exercise of our G-d-given free will. This turning away (repentance) from sin tilts the balance toward the display of the mercy of G-d and thus reflects G-d’s love for us even better than the justice of G-d does, for it is divine mercy that surpasses the realm of human behavior, which normally emphasizes truth and justice above all else.

 

[pacloc]

Of course, in Christian theology, Jesus and Mary are rather special, to say the least. Nonetheless, according to Jewish theology, given that we all sin more or less, there is much virtue in the atonement from sin as an exercise of our G-d-given free will. This turning away (repentance) from sin tilts the balance toward the display of the mercy of G-d and thus reflects G-d’s love for us even better than the justice of G-d does, for it is divine mercy that surpasses the realm of human behavior, which normally emphasizes truth and justice above all else.

I think I would only say that you can repent of sin without sinning. You can do this for your fellow man that has sinned, knowing in a way we are all of the same stock. And being born with a sickened will that tends toward sin, just the option to sin, once decided against is something we can repent from. And so the mercy that God has on us all, sinners or not, is actually the same. But like you said we all sin so this is pretty much theoretical. I think of the great Saint Elijah as a sinless person and I’m sure we are to imitate His life and teach our children to imitate him as much as possible.

 

[Wesrock]

Because God wanted all kinds of life to share in Him. He’s comfortable eating dinner with the poor and with sinners. He doesn’t reserve His gift of life to only the perfect.

 

[Wesrock]

Nonetheless, according to Jewish theology, given that we all sin more or less, there is much virtue in the atonement from sin as an exercise of our G-d-given free will. This turning away (repentance) from sin tilts the balance toward the display of the mercy of G-d and thus reflects G-d’s love for us even better than the justice of G-d does, for it is divine mercy that surpasses the realm of human behavior, which normally emphasizes truth and justice above all else.

Wonderfully, concisely said, and a sentiment shared by some Christian doctors and theologians, too.

 

[NM505StKate]

Since God knows all things, past, present, and future, why did God still create Man and the Demons? Both beings turned against him/disobeyed him.

Because reasons?

If you want demons were created because Yahweh created evil;

skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/evil.html

As for humans maybe it was all part of a plan?

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

Because he can ,
it would show fulfilment of existence

 

[tamedlion]

Short answer, God is not in the business of making robots, He created intelligent beings with the free will to choose to love Him, or not. God knew some would turn against Him but others would make the right choice as Abraham even under extreme decisions.

 

[NM505StKate]

Short answer, God is not in the business of making robots, He created intelligent beings with the free will to choose to love Him, or not. God knew some would turn against Him but others would make the right choice as Abraham even under extreme decisions.

But Adam and Eve didn’t know what right and wrong were until they ate the fruit. How could they disobey when they couldn’t understand the meaning of it? Why give angels “free will” when it knows what will happen unless Christian god and the devil are working together. There isn’t any logic behind it and I don’t believe god can be illogical.

 

[Wesrock]

But Adam and Eve didn’t know what right and wrong were until they ate the fruit. How could they disobey when they couldn’t understand the meaning of it?

That’s a very surface reading of the text, and one probably hindered by the English language, too.

Why give angels “free will” when it knows what will happen unless Christian god and the devil are working together. There isn’t any logic behind it and I don’t believe god can be illogical.

How is it illogical? Whatever a demon’s intentions, could it not help better accomplish God’s plans?

 

[pacloc]

But Adam and Eve didn’t know what right and wrong were until they ate the fruit. How could they disobey when they couldn’t understand the meaning of it? Why give angels “free will” when it knows what will happen unless Christian god and the devil are working together. There isn’t any logic behind it and I don’t believe god can be illogical.

Where are you learning all of this from? It is all so very wrong.