Why did Jesus die on the cross?

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey;2434197:

The Romans killed him on the cross.

Hi
You mean to say that Jews had no hand in Jesus’ incident of Crucifixion?
What interest had the Roman in Jesus’ killing?
If you would answer these two questions, you would come to know that I was correct. However, no compulsion to believe in what I say.
Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey;2434197:

Where in the Bible does it say that he died in India?

Hi
My Catholic friend I never said that it is written in NTBible that Jesus had died in India.
That is only to prove that Jesus was a true Prophet and therefore Jews could not kill him humiliatingly on the Cross in Judea. This is also to prove that Sign of Jonah was shown by Jesus as he was a true Prophet.
Jesus had no attributes of God, and that he never was. This is what I believe with rational reasons; others could believe otherwise , no compulsion.
Thanks

 

[anthony022071]

anthony022071;2434486:

Hi
You mean to say that Jews had no hand in Jesus’ incident of Crucifixion?
What interest had the Roman in Jesus’ killing?
If you would answer these two questions, you would come to know that I was correct. However, no compulsion to believe in what I say.
Thanks

The Jews handed Jesus over to the Romans to be crucified.
The Roman governor consented to the Jew’s demand that Jesus be put to death, because he was afraid that a riot would break out if he did not put him to death,and also the Jews had said “If you release this man,you are no friend of the emporer. Everyone who claims to be a king sets himself against the emporer” (John 19,12).

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey;2434510:

The Jews handed Jesus over to the Romans to be crucified.
The Roman governor consented to the Jew’s demand that Jesus be put to death, because he was afraid that a riot would break out if he did not put him to death,and also the Jews had said “If you release this man,you are no friend of the emporer. Everyone who claims to be a king sets himself against the emporer” (John 19,12).

Hi
So the prime movers of this killing were Jews. Pilate could not set this innocent man free, because then Jews would have made a complaint to Rome against Jesus, otherwise the Romans had no interest in Jesus. I think you agree with me that it was the animosity of Jews that prompted Jesus’ putting him on the Cross with the intention of humiliating and killing him over there. By the grace of God they could not do it and Jesus died a natural death in India. Catholics, to be steadfast onto their faith, this is my belief with rational reasons.
Thanks

 

[anthony022071]

anthony022071;2434486:

Hi
My Catholic friend I never said that it is written in NTBible that Jesus had died in India.

If it has no basis in the Bible,then where does it come from? and why should anyone believe such a thing? Whatever information we have about Jesus is found in the Bible.

That is only to prove that Jesus was a true Prophet and therefore Jews could not kill him humiliatingly on the Cross in Judea.

It proves no such thing. There had been true prophets,such as Zechariah,and John the Baptist,who had been put to death.

This is also to prove that Sign of Jonah was shown by Jesus as he was a true Prophet.

It proves no such thing.

Jesus had no attributes of God, and that he never was. This is what I believe with rational reasons; others could believe otherwise , no compulsion.

Where are your rational reasons? Jesus did have attributes of God,because he expelled demons from people,gave sight to the blind,gave hearing to the deaf,gave speech to the mute,healed the sick and crippled,and raised the dead to life. He had these powers from his Father in heaven. And he frightened the high priests,scribes,and Pharisees with his word,because he spoke with authority and accused them of hypocricy and sin.

 

[anthony022071]

So the prime movers of this killing were Jews. Pilate could not set this innocent man free, because then Jews would have made a complaint to Rome against Jesus, otherwise the Romans had no interest in Jesus. I think you agree with me that it was the animosity of Jews that prompted Jesus’ putting him on the Cross with the intention of humiliating and killing him over there.

That is true.

By the grace of God they could not do it and Jesus died a natural death in India. Catholics, to be steadfast onto their faith, this is my belief with rational reasons.

This is not true. Where are your rational reasons for believing that Jesus died a natural death in India? Even Jews,who do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah,do not believe such a thing.They know that Jesus was put to death on the cross.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey;2434541:

That is only to prove that Jesus was a true Prophet and therefore Jews could not kill him humiliatingly on the Cross in Judea.

It proves no such thing. There had been true prophets,such as Zechariah

,and John the Baptist,who had been put to death.

Hi
I would like to give here an excerpt from the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908 which is quite relevant one:alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

“Among the testimonies of the gospel which have reached us is the verse from Matthew: ‘That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, all these things shall come upon this generation’.* Now, if you think over these verses you will find that Jesus (peace be on him) clearly states that the killing of prophets by the Jews ceased with the prophet Zacharias, and that after that, the Jews would have no power to kill any prophet. This is a great prophecy which clearly points out that Jesus (peace be on him) was not killed as the result of crucifixion; he was rather saved from the Cross, dying ultimately a natural death. For if Jesus (peace be on him) was also to suffer death by murder like Zacharias, at the hands of the Jews, he would have hinted in these verses at his own murder. If it is urged that Jesus (peace be on him) also was killed by the Jews but his being killed was not a sin on the Jews’ part, for Jesus’ death was of the nature of an atonement, the contention is hardly tenable, for in John, chap. 19, verse 11, Jesus clearly says that the Jews have been guilty of a great sin for having resolved to kill Jesus; and likewise, in many other places there is the clear hint that as a penalty for the crime of which they had been guilty against Jesus, they had deserved punishment in the sight of God.**”

• Matthew 23:35-36.
  ** Matthew 26:24.
  Unquote
  Thanks

 

[adrift]

and that after that, the Jews would have no power to kill any prophet.

Doesn’t say that at all.

For if Jesus (peace be on him) was also to suffer death by murder like Zacharias, at the hands of the Jews, he would have hinted in these verses at his own murder.

Why did Imam Mahdi ignore
Matt 23

34
18 Therefore, behold, I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and pursue from town to town,

Some of them you WILL kill and crucify is in the future tense. It refers to His own death.

 

[anthony022071]

anthony022071;2434661:

Hi
I would like to give here an excerpt from the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908 which is quite relevant one:alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

"Among the testimonies of the gospel which have reached us is the verse from Matthew: ‘That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, all these things shall come upon this generation’.* Now, if you think over these verses you will find that Jesus (peace be on him) clearly states that the killing of prophets by the Jews ceased with the prophet Zacharias, and that after that, the Jews would have no power to kill any prophet.

These verses say no such thing. John the Baptist was a prophet,and he was killed. Where is the verse which says the Jews would have no power to kill any prophet?

This is a great prophecy which clearly points out that Jesus (peace be on him) was not killed as the result of crucifixion; he was rather saved from the Cross, dying ultimately a natural death.

These verse point out no such thing. Where is the verse which says he was saved from the cross? And if Imam Mahdi thought that the verse from Matthew was true,why did he not believe the verse where Jesus said: “See,we are going up to Jerusalem,and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and scribes,and they will condemn him to death;then they will hand him over to Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified;and on the third day he will be raised.” Matthew 20,18-19

For if Jesus (peace be on him) was also to suffer death by murder like Zacharias, at the hands of the Jews, he would have hinted in these verses at his own murder.

He had already told the disciples what was going to happen to him in Matthew 20,18-19.

If it is urged that Jesus (peace be on him) also was killed by the Jews but his being killed was not a sin on the Jews’ part,

Who says that it was not a sin? It was a sin.

for Jesus’ death was of the nature of an atonement, the contention is hardly tenable,

Who has made this contention?

for in John, chap. 19, verse 11, Jesus clearly says that the Jews have been guilty of a great sin for having resolved to kill Jesus; and likewise, in many other places there is the clear hint that as a penalty for the crime of which they had been guilty against Jesus, they had deserved punishment in the sight of God.**"

What is Imam Mahdi’s point? Christians have always known that
the Jews who resolved to kill Jesus had committed a great sin.

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus said: “See,we are going up to Jerusalem,and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and scribes,and they will condemn him to death;then they will hand him over to Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified;and on the third day he will be raised.” Matthew 20,18-19

Hi
I think perhaps you have not inferred correct meaning of the passage. The passage does not mention that ** Jesus would be killed on Cross **, it just mentions that he would be put on Cross with the intention of killing, nevertheless it won’t be and could not be accomplished. If you read it with the following passage from OTBible the verse becomes very clear:
Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from killing on Cross.
Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
Unquote
I think now the matter is quite clear to you. Isn’t it?
May GodAllahYHWH bless you all!
I love Jesus and Mary.
Thanks

The Word of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is of itself complete and without doubt and requires no external witnessing.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi
I think perhaps you have not inferred correct meaning of the passage.** The passage does not mention that Jesus would be killed on Cross , it just mentions that he would be put on Cross with the intention of killing, nevertheless it won’t be and could not be accomplished**. If you read it with the following passage from OTBible the verse becomes very clear:
Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from killing on Cross.
Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
Unquote
I think now the matter is quite clear to you. Isn’t it?
May GodAllahYHWH bless you all!
I love Jesus and Mary.
Thanks

The Word of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is of itself complete and without doubt and requires no external witnessing.

 

[adrift]

Hi
I think perhaps you have not inferred correct meaning of the passage. The passage does not mention that Jesus would be killed on Cross ,

You are the one who is mistaken.

they will condemn him to death;then they will hand him over to Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified;and on the third day he will be raised

He will be crucified is a clear statement of death. I have mentioned before that the Romans were experts at this they didn’t leave their victims alive. You ignore what someone else told you that when the soldier found Him to be dead put a spear through His side. Your arguments are not rational.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey;2434510:

The Jews handed Jesus over to the Romans to be crucified.
The Roman governor consented to the Jew’s demand that Jesus be put to death, because he was afraid that a riot would break out if he did not put him to death,and also the Jews had said “If you release this man,you are no friend of the emporer. Everyone who claims to be a king sets himself against the emporer” (John 19,12).

Hi

The Jews handed Jesus over to the Romans to be crucified.The Roman governor consented to the Jew’s demand that Jesus be put to death

Yes, I agree that Jews handed over Jesus over to the Romans with the intention that he may gets killed disgracefully on the Cross.

because he(Pilate) was afraid that a riot would break out if he did not put him to death,and also the Jews had said "If you release this man,you are no friend of the emporer.

This speaks a volume about the mindset of the Pilate, that he did not want to put Jesus to death. The Jews had to threaten him for putting him on the Cross, sort of armtwisting. Under the situation, as the wife of Pilate had seen a dream, Pilate arranged the plan of Crucifixion in such a way that outwardly it seemed he was doing it, so that there is no cause of complaint to the Jews, but secretly he took measures with the connivence of his Roman staff that Jesus escaped death on Cross, though Jesus faced a lot of trouble and agony on Cross.
This is in short, I think it is reasonable to understand under the circumstances.
Thanks

Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from getting a cursed killing on Cross.
Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

 

[anthony022071]

Under the situation, as the wife of Pilate had seen a dream, Pilate arranged the plan of Crucifixion in such a way that outwardly it seemed he was doing it, so that there is no cause of complaint to the Jews, but secretly he took measures with the connivence of his Roman staff that Jesus escaped death on Cross, though Jesus faced a lot of trouble and agony on Cross.

Where is this mentioned in the Bible?

This is in short, I think it is reasonable to understand under the circumstances.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

Jesus was put to death,as true prophets before him were put to death.

Acts 2,23 “…this man,handed over to you according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God,you crucified and killed by the hands of those outside of the law. But God raised him up,having freed him from death,for it was impossible for him to be held in its power.”

Acts 2,36-38: “Therefore let the entire house of Israel know with certainty that God has made him both Lord and Messiah,this Jesus whom you crucified.” Now when they had heard this they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and to the other apostles,
“Brothers,what should we do?” Peter said to them,“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven;and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from getting a cursed killing on Cross.
Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

Hebrews 5,8-9: “Although a Son,he learned obedience through all that he had suffered;and having been made perfect,he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.”

Hebrews 9,14 “…how much more will the blood of Christ,who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God,purify our conscience from dead works.”

Hebrews 9,15-17: “For this reason he is the mediator of the new covenant,so that those who are called may recieve the promised eternal inheritance,because a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant. Where a will is involved,the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death,since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.”

Hebrews 9,22: “Indeed,under the law almost everything is purified with blood,and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.”

Hebrews 9,27-28: “And just as it is appointed for mortals to die once,and after that the judgement,so Christ,having been offered to bear the sins of many,will appear a second time,not to deal with sin,but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.”

Hebrews 10,10: “And it is God’s will that that we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all.”

 

[paarsurrey]

Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
anthony022071:
Jesus was put to death,as true prophets before him were put to death.

anthony022071:
Hi
Jesus was a Jew, he always referred to OTBible; and if you are one of his followers then you should also refer to OTBible. Deuteronomy commands Jews to kill the false Prophets; that is why they were after Jesus to kill him, and to make it disgraceful, they wanted to kill him on Cross which according to OTBible is a disgraceful killing.
It is very clearly mentioned in Deuteronomy, I give another passage from it to clear your doubt:
“If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ (gods you have not known) ‘and let us worship them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NIV).
I think now you should understand; but I don’t say you should change your faith; remain a steadfast Catholic but with reasonable arguments and not with blind faith. It is against humanity to follow someone blindly; God has given us eyes to see and brain to understand reason with free will.
Thanks

 

[anthony022071]

Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
anthony022071:
Jesus was put to death,as true prophets before him were put to death.

Hi
Jesus was a Jew, he always referred to OTBible; and if you are one of his followers then you should also refer to OTBible. Deuteronomy commands Jews to kill the false Prophets; that is why they were after Jesus to kill him, and to make it disgraceful, they wanted to kill him on Cross which according to OTBible is a disgraceful killing.

All that goes to show is that some of the Jews thought that Jesus was a false prophet – it does not mean that they were right.

It is very clearly mentioned in Deuteronomy, I give another passage from it to clear your doubt:
"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ (gods you have not known) ‘and let us worship them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer.

Jesus did not say “Let us follow other gods”.

The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery;

Jesus did not preach rebellion against God…

he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow.

Jesus did not try to turn the Jews from the way that God commanded them to follow.

You must purge the evil from among you" (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NIV).

The Jews did not purge evil from them when Jesus was killed,they purged good from them.

I think now you should understand; but I don’t say you should change your faith; remain a steadfast Catholic but with reasonable arguments and not with blind faith. It is against humanity to follow someone blindly;

Then why do you blindly follow Imam Mahdi?

God has given us eyes to see and brain to understand reason with free will.

Then use your own eyes and brain when you read scripture,not Imam Madhi.