Why did Mary specifically mention Russia in Fatima?

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Polak

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In the Fatima apparitions Mary told the children about Russia potentially spreading her errors throughout the world. Many believe she (Russia) is doing that now.

I just wondered why Mary would mentioned Russia specifically, a big communist power, and not a different communist power like China? Why not give a few countries as examples? Some of the things going on in China more recently are arguably worse than what is going on in Russia.

It’s easy to see how many patriotic Russians would look at this message from Mary as anti-Russian political propaganda from the Catholic Church.

To clarify, I don’t think that’s the case and I believe what happened in Fatima and what Mary said, but to pick one specific communist atheist country in the world, when there are others, and as far as big powerful countries go, might seem unusual to some, and is likely to be refuted by many Russians as Russophobic propaganda.
 
Polak said:
not a different communist power like China
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I think most private revelations have some sort of bearing on or relationship to immediate contemporaneous current affairs to maintain relevancy: reveal too far and too ambiguously into the future and it might have no meaning for the witnesses.

At the time of the Fatima apparitions, the Russian Revolution had just occurred (Nicholas abdicated on 15 March, first apparition on 13 May). The Communist Party of China wasn’t to be founded for another 4 or so years, and the PRC wasn’t established until 1949.
 
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@Polak

Kindness is a virtue but a delirious apprehension of hurting somebody’s feelings is not.

If a Russian person wants to be upset by Fatima, you just have to accept the fact that it is a conscious choice which they are choosing to make. Similar warnings came about France prior to the French Revolution. If a Parisian wanted to be upset by that, that isn’t something within your control to stop. We can’t control how other people feel or the choices that other people make.

Peace.
 
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@Polak
The “errors of Russia”, which Our Lady spoke about in her apparition was the evil of atheistic materialism, which has its origins in Communist Russia, not in China or any other country (they have accepted it from Russia).

Unfortunately the errors of Russia have been spread all over the world, or has been stopped only partially - the whole Western World is bathing now in cultural Marxism and sin stemming from it. This is what Pope Benedict XVI spoke about in 2010 in Fatima. He said then that ‘it would be deluding to think that the prophetic mission of Fatima is over’. He made it clear that this revelation is still relevant, because the call to conversion and penance is relevant.
 
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Polak said:
and not a different communist power like China?
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The Communist regime in China was thirty years in the future. Russia – not yet renamed the USSR or Soviet Union – was, at that time, the only communist country in the world.
 
Polak said:
In the Fatima apparitions Mary told the children about Russia potentially spreading her errors throughout the world. Many believe she (Russia) is doing that now.
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The Immaculate Heart of Mary is known from the Wedding Feast at Cana (John 2: 1-12) when she tells the steward, “Do whatever he tells you.” referring the her son Jesus. But also from her virtuous qualities such as being pure, prudent, humble, faithful, devote, obedient, poor, patient, merciful, and sorrowful, all attested to in scripture. Qualities that everyone should have and pray for, to prevent errors.

Some history between 1914 and 1922:
  • Russia and its allies (Britain and France) in war with Ottoman empire, WWI 1914 - 1918
    1 November 1914 Russia, 5 November 1914 Britain and France
  • February Revolution - March 8, 1917
  • Miracle of the Sun (Fatima) - October 13, 1917
  • Bolshevik Revolution - November 6 and 7, 1917
  • 1918 End of WWI: Austro-Hungarian, German, Ottoman, and Russian Empires ended
  • 1918 to 1920 Russian Civil War between Red and White armies.
  • 1921-1922 Russian Famine
  • 1921 Chinese Communist Party founded (Marxism–Leninism)
 
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BartholomewB said:
The Communist regime in China was thirty years in the future. Russia – not yet renamed the USSR or Soviet Union – was, at that time, the only communist country in the world.
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And, as someone else said above, China and other Communist countries took their cue from Russia.

Russia did indeed “spread its errors throughout the world”, just as Our Lady said.
 
Erundil said:
The “errors of Russia”, which Our Lady spoke about in her apparition was the evil of atheistic materialism, which has its origins in Communist Russia, not in China or any other country (they have accepted it from Russia).
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BartholomewB said:
Russia – not yet renamed the USSR or Soviet Union – was, at that time, the only communist country in the world.
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So Russia spread its errors to China (and other nations since). That makes more sense. I knew The CCP had ruled in China for a long time and that China has long been a communist country, but I didn’t realise it wasn’t yet at that time.
 
Polak said:
So Russia spread its errors to China (and other nations since).
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Excerpt from history of CCP on Wikipedia:
The CCP has its origins in the May Fourth Movement of 1919, during which radical Western ideologies like Marxism and anarchism gained traction among Chinese intellectuals.[20] Other influences stemming from the Bolshevik revolution and Marxist theory inspired the Communist Party of China.[21] Li Dazhao was the first leading Chinese intellectual who publicly supported Leninism and world revolution.[22] In contrast to Chen Duxiu, Li did not renounce participation in the affairs of the Republic of China.[23] Both of them regarded the October Revolution in Russia as groundbreaking, believing it to herald a new era for oppressed countries everywhere.[23]
The CCP was modeled on Vladimir Lenin’s theory of a vanguard party.[24] Study circles were, according to Cai Hesen, “the rudiments [of our party]”.[25]
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Because if Russia hadn’t fallen to communism, communism never would have spread to China or others. It was the first domino.
 
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Yeah, communism successfully rose to power in Russia.

The fascists of WW2 also created an opportune vacuum for communists to spread. The Chinese nationalist army was in a prolonged war of survival against imperial Japan and the Chinese communist army remained isolated further inland throughout the ordeal.

Germany annexing the Balkans and Eastern Europe and then subsequently getting obliterated by the Soviet Union allowed communism to move deep into Europe.
 
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Thank you for those dates, @Vico. I see I made a serious mistake in my earlier post. At the time of the Fatima apparitions (from May 13 till October 13, 1917) Lenin’s Bolsheviks had not yet seized power in Russia. That didn’t happen until the night of November 7-8. In the May-October period, Russia was still governed by Kerensky’s Social Democrats, who had been in power since the czar was forced to abdicate on March 15.
 
Are you referring to Orthodox Catholics, traditional and conservative, or the Eastern Orthodox Church?
 
I think there is an Orthodox area here, Eastern. One could make the statement you did about Baptists and LDS too. Not sure what the purpose of that was.
 
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Not sure the parents would have been that concerned with events unfolding in Russia. I would have thought they’d have hundreds of other things to talk about before even considering the politics of a far away country.
 
Polak said:
Not sure the parents would have been that concerned with events unfolding in Russia. I would have thought they’d have hundreds of other things to talk about before even considering the politics of a far away country.
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Mega dittos to that.

As I understand it, Jacinta did not know what Russia even was. She thought it was the name of a little girl.
 
As with anything else, one can research about what the Orthodox think of Fatima and apparently, there have been some opinions versus someone anecdotally telling us they don’t think about it.

http://www.orthodox.org/fatima.htm
The Real Meaning Of Fatima

For Orthodox Christians Fatima was a particularly powerful attack on the Orthodox Church,
since it introduced the subject of the conversion of Russia, thereby appealing to many Russian Orthodox Christians, distressed by the enslavement of their homeland. But it is absolutely impossible to separate the “prophecies” about Russia from the total context of the visions. The purpose of Fatima was to present and reinforce a number of distinctively Roman Catholic doctrines which are absolutely foreign to the Orthodox Church.
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http://www.orthodox.org/Fatima.pdf

I thought we heard one’s wife was Jewish; but now are talking about Orthodoxy. Sure makes one wonder.

 
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Polak said:
Not sure the parents would have been that concerned with events unfolding in Russia. I would have thought they’d have hundreds of other things to talk about before even considering the politics of a far away country.
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I’ve met dozens of Eastern Orthodox who are fascinated with the topic though, some of the topic areas do not cross over well like the concept of purgatory but this is a discussion for the Eastern Orthodox area.
 
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I’ve pondered exactly what problem Russians could have with Fatima, assuming they do, and the only thing I can come up with, is that, looking at it from their point of view, you have here these Latins — and the history behind that, we don’t need to tell you, it’s far too well-known — using three little children as shills of a sort, claiming that their bishops, in collegial union with the Pope of Rome, need to consecrate our country to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, so that we will then be “converted”. Converted to what, they could ask — to have Holy Orthodoxy restored to its position of glory and prominence, with the Russian people once again adhering to it en masse after years of atheistic brainwashing, or to make us into “uniates” under the Roman heel? Or are they insinuating that we will go even further, and become Latin Rite Catholics? If I were Russian, if I were Orthodox, those are the questions I’d be asking. It could also come across as kind of insulting and overbearing, for a church to which relatively few Russians adhere, chiming in and saying “you poor people who don’t have the right religion, bless your hearts, don’t you worry, here comes Rome to the rescue, we’ve got just what the doctor ordered, we’re going to save you from yourselves”.
 
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