Why did Mary specifically mention Russia in Fatima?

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JoyfulTune said:
Mary only received favor and blessings to become the most blessed & highly favored by who? By God.
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In the same way she recieved the ability to intercede to an extent that is inconceivable to us, here on Earth — including accepting things dedicated to her, just to subject them for God Himself.

As Caramel said:
Carmel said:
Mary was sent from heaven by God to request the Pope and Bishops to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
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You do understand that ther would be no ‘consecrating to Mary’ if it wouldn’t mean that the consecration is done through Mary to her Son?

This is turned into some Anti-Marian rhehoric and has been removed far from the subject of the thread.
 
JoyfulTune said:
Why not consecrate Russia to Jesus Christ, ‘her son’ instead?
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Joyful Tune, read “33 Days to Morning Glory” for a wonderful walk through the concept of Marian devotion & consecration. Fr. Gaitley explains it better than I ever could. I was really skeptical at first, but by the end of the book I was ready to consecrate myself to Mary with no more fears that I was NOT also giving myself in the fullest way possible to God Himself!
 
JoyfulTune said:
Why hairsplitting about everything else, but when regarding private revelations, then suddenly anything goes. Like literally any
theology offered by those apparitions, no matter what, they are allowed by the church, as long as the apparition seems “miraculous”, then suddenly no hairsplitting theological quarrels necessary.

when the message deviate from the gospel, that is perversion of doctrine.
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Joyful,
What’s your position on the Assumption, and Immaculate Conception of Mary in the womb of her mother? The Church considers these doctrines part of public revelation, but some Christians do not.

I’m trying to better understand your position. If you say that the Assumption, or Mary’s perpetual virginity, “deviates from the gospel,” I would respond one way.

If you say " Of course I accept articles of Faith as defined as Public Revelation by the Magisterium, but let’s not put Fatima, or Lourdes, etc on that level", then I would respond another way.

If the second, to some extent I may agree with you. The problem then is to differentiate between:
  • The Church’s pastoral response (no doctrine) on Fatima…
    and
  • what a few individuals say about Fatima.
 
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Jen7 said:
“33 Days to Morning Glory” for a wonderful walk through the concept of Marian devotion & consecration.
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Isn’t the word consecration in mass means Jesus Body offered as a sacrifice?

The word consecrate to are used in the bible:

Exodus 13:2
Consecrate to me all the firstborn; whatever is the first to open the womb among the Israelites, of human beings and animals, is mine.

Exodus 22:31
You shall be people consecrated to me; therefore you shall not eat any meat that is mangled by beasts in the field; you shall throw it to the dogs.
 
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Carmel said:
Mary was sent from heaven by God to request the Pope and Bishops to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. What part of that statement do you not understand ?
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I would put it in context.

According to an approved, highly recommended private revelation, Mary is believed sent from Heaven to urge conversion to the gospel, beginning with ourselves.
Also, to help facilitate and clarify that main message, Mary is reported with other statements, including that the Consecration of Russia be done, (which presumably would help the conversion of persons there to the gospel.)
 
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JoyfulTune said:
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Jen7:
“33 Days to Morning Glory” for a wonderful walk through the concept of Marian devotion & consecration.
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Isn’t the word consecration in mass means Jesus Body offered as a sacrifice?

The word consecrate to are used in the bible:

Exodus 13:2
Consecrate to me all the firstborn; whatever is the first to open the womb among the Israelites, of human beings and animals, is mine.

Exodus 22:31
You shall be people consecrated to me; therefore you shall not eat any meat that is mangled by beasts in the field; you shall throw it to the dogs.
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Joyful,

Jen 7 suggested a source to read she found helpful. Is there a source, other than the Bible, that you are using, to find the right Bible verses and perspective?
 
I am sure The Bible is more reliable than “33 Days of Morning Glory”
 
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commenter said:
Is there a book, or website, that guides you to quote certain Bible verses that apply, and not others?
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The guide is the word “consecrate to” that is used by the apparition. I was quoting the bible to cross check the usage of that word in the bible.
 
I think the errors of Russia were to downgrade Christian thought for a centralized secular government which removes freedom from the people, confiscates their wealth and constrains people’s potential under the slogan of redistributing wealth for the common good.

I think those mistakes that Mary warned us about are a lot closer than being a Russian or Chinese experience.
 
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And I think I read somewhere that Russia promoted abortion at the state level that year!!!
 
Petra202 said:
And I think I read somewhere that Russia promoted abortion at the state level that year!!!
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Please do not go off topic here. We aren’t talking about Russia. We are talking about “Why did Mary specifically mention Russia in Fatima”
 
So you mean things that were happening in Russia 100 years ago have no place in this conversation??? Odd!
 
JoyfulTune said:
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commenter:
Joyful,

Do you take the position of Sola Scriptura?
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Do you know that the bible is part of Church Tradition (with capital T)?

Private revelation, on the other hand, is not.
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Ok, just trying to understand your position.

Private revelation, to me, is like church music. A given hymn appeals to or inspires John, but not Mary. Hymns are supposed to be approved as compatible with Church teaching, but not add anything.

If John is getting most of his teaching from the songbook, or if he roams from Church to church to follow his organist, that can be a problem. But a good hymn can focus John’s attention on the gospel, ideally without John even noticing the hymn as such.

Private revelation is like that. If devotion to Fatima, or Lourdes, or Divine Mercy, leads you to actions of worshipping God, and spiritual and corporal works of mercy, it was good.

I’ve gnashed my teeth at a few church musicians or hymns, that seek too much attention for themselves, but let’s not throw out all church music or private revelations.
 
commenter said:
But a good hymn can focus John’s attention on the gospel, ideally without John even noticing the hymn as such.
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If it lead to focus on the gospel.

And the keyword is if

Otherwise, “distraction” instead of “focus”
on God, the focus goes to ‘mother of god’
 
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JoyfulTune said:
Abortion happ
“Petra202 said:
So you mean things that were happening in Russia 100 years ago have no place in this conversation??? Odd!
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Abortions happens everywhere, not only in Russia.
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Atheism, it Secular Humanism, wasn’t invented in Russia, but it was where it became entrenched in the (all powerful) government for a few generations, and tried to spread over the world.

Apart from any private revelation, public revelation, Catholic social teaching, should lead Catholics to lovingly oppose the spread of atheism.
 
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