R
Roseeurekacross
Guest
However, Paul met the resurrected Jesus
- Status
M
midori
Guest
Saul’s breathing out murderous threats against the Christian community.
Light flashes. He falls to the ground. A voice says, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
Saul sez, “Um, who are you?”
The voice says, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.” (Note that he’s saying Saul is persecuting him— even though the crucifixion had taken place a few years previously, and he’s not actually on earth to be persecuted. But his followers are the Body of Christ, so he’s making this personal.) “Now get up, go to the city, and I’ll tell you what to do later.”
Saul’s blind. His traveling companions are confuzzled, because they saw the light, but didn’t hear the voice. He fasts, because he’s disturbed by the occurrence. And he probably does a lot of prayer and thinking.
Meanwhile, Jesus says to Ananias in a vision-- “Go to x location on y street. Ask for a man from Tarsus, named Saul. He’s praying. I’ve given him a vision where you come, lay hands on him, and give him his sight back.”
Ananias sez, “Uh, I don’t know if you know this, but Saul of Tarsus is a bad guy. You do know he’s killed your people, right? And you know that he can arrest anyone who works in your name. You know this thing is totally a trick, right?”
And Jesus sez, “Ya think? Go do what I told you to do, because this is how I’ve chosen to do stuff.”
And Ananias goes and does what he’s supposed to do, and Saul’s blindness is cured, and he eats something. He spends a bit of time in Damascus, hanging out with Ananias, and preaching about Jesus in the synagogue, and everyone sez, “Uh, who is this guy? Isn’t he the one who’s supposed to be arresting Christians?” And everyone’s confused, until they decide he’s annoying, so let’s kill him, and then he snuck out of the city with the help of his friends and went to Jerusalem.
And the people in Jerusalem didn’t want anything to do with him. “This is so totally a trick.” But Barnabas vouched for him, and he keeps preaching, and the Hellenistic Jews tried to kill him, too, so they helped him move on to Tarsus.
So-- he met someone who SAYS he was the resurrected Jesus, because the voice not only self-identified to him, but also coordinated with Ananias. Otherwise, no one would have touched him with a stick, because everyone feared for their lives.
There were no witnesses to the meeting-- except for the traveling companions who saw part of it.
You’re assuming epilepsy-- can you cite a mainstream scholarly article that predates, say, 1980? I’m not talking about “ancient Irish traditions.” But you have a person who vigorously tries to squelch this new cult, and then Something Happens, and three days later is the beginning of the next period of his life, where he spends the next 30 years of his life propagating and defending that cult with just as much enthusiasm as he’d tried to squelch it before-- preaching, having people try to kill him, and continuing to preach anyways.
Or are we going to start arguing about the historicity of Paul now?
Light flashes. He falls to the ground. A voice says, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
Saul sez, “Um, who are you?”
The voice says, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.” (Note that he’s saying Saul is persecuting him— even though the crucifixion had taken place a few years previously, and he’s not actually on earth to be persecuted. But his followers are the Body of Christ, so he’s making this personal.) “Now get up, go to the city, and I’ll tell you what to do later.”
Saul’s blind. His traveling companions are confuzzled, because they saw the light, but didn’t hear the voice. He fasts, because he’s disturbed by the occurrence. And he probably does a lot of prayer and thinking.
Meanwhile, Jesus says to Ananias in a vision-- “Go to x location on y street. Ask for a man from Tarsus, named Saul. He’s praying. I’ve given him a vision where you come, lay hands on him, and give him his sight back.”
Ananias sez, “Uh, I don’t know if you know this, but Saul of Tarsus is a bad guy. You do know he’s killed your people, right? And you know that he can arrest anyone who works in your name. You know this thing is totally a trick, right?”
And Jesus sez, “Ya think? Go do what I told you to do, because this is how I’ve chosen to do stuff.”
And Ananias goes and does what he’s supposed to do, and Saul’s blindness is cured, and he eats something. He spends a bit of time in Damascus, hanging out with Ananias, and preaching about Jesus in the synagogue, and everyone sez, “Uh, who is this guy? Isn’t he the one who’s supposed to be arresting Christians?” And everyone’s confused, until they decide he’s annoying, so let’s kill him, and then he snuck out of the city with the help of his friends and went to Jerusalem.
And the people in Jerusalem didn’t want anything to do with him. “This is so totally a trick.” But Barnabas vouched for him, and he keeps preaching, and the Hellenistic Jews tried to kill him, too, so they helped him move on to Tarsus.
So-- he met someone who SAYS he was the resurrected Jesus, because the voice not only self-identified to him, but also coordinated with Ananias. Otherwise, no one would have touched him with a stick, because everyone feared for their lives.
There were no witnesses to the meeting-- except for the traveling companions who saw part of it.
You’re assuming epilepsy-- can you cite a mainstream scholarly article that predates, say, 1980? I’m not talking about “ancient Irish traditions.” But you have a person who vigorously tries to squelch this new cult, and then Something Happens, and three days later is the beginning of the next period of his life, where he spends the next 30 years of his life propagating and defending that cult with just as much enthusiasm as he’d tried to squelch it before-- preaching, having people try to kill him, and continuing to preach anyways.
Or are we going to start arguing about the historicity of Paul now?
R
Roseeurekacross
Guest
Of course there were witnesses, his travelling companions. This incident, this meeting with Jesus changed his life completely. Jesus told Paul who he was. You don’t need have to have met God to know who God is.
There are no problems except those an unbeliever like yourself, throws up.
Are you going to recognise God when you meet Him? Or say how can I know who this is.
R
Roseeurekacross
Guest
We are way off topic. We are not in a thread questioning Catholic belief. Nor are we in the non Christian religions forum.
You are trolling Catholics, mate.
That’s against CAF rules
Last edited:
C
ConstantLearner
Guest
You took it off-topic by mentioning Paul. I did not.
So, how about if we get back to the topic. The resurrection stories of the gospels differ, but each has MM as meeting Jesus first. Why? Who knows? Does it matter? If Jesus were the messiah, I don’t think it would matter one bit who saw him first.
Last edited:
C
ConstantLearner
Guest
Do not call me mate. I am not your “mate.”
And I’m not “trolling Catholics.” I’ve said many times, I don’t care what faith another adheres to. I was only answering questions presented to me out of politeness. I really don’t even know what “trolling Catholics” means, but I assume it’s negative. I also have to assume you’ve not read all my posts in this thread. I said, “I’m not about to challenge anyone’s faith. Faith is between the person and G-d.” I also have an MA in Catholic theology. So “trolling Catholics?” Whatever that means, I’m sure I’m not doing it. You said Paul met Jesus. I just made the correction that he SAYS he met the resurrected Jesus. Most of the Christian bible consists of Paul’s letters.
I would greatly prefer to stick to the topic myself. So, let’s do that.
Last edited:
H
Hodos
Guest
Added to that, I think the radical change in Paul’s life, to include his martyrdom for Christ will attest to his assurance that he met Christ on the road to Damascus. If the assertion is that Paul was crossing his fingers, that is a pretty ridiculous notion easily dismissed considering the suffering he put up with as a Christian. If the assertion is that he was fooled, how do you explain the blindness and the miraculous healing by Ananias? Also, keep in mind, Luke was notorious for namedropping people who were well known to the early church, making his claims verifiable by his readers. Lastly, given that Luke stops short at Paul’s first imprisonment, it is likely that the Acts of the Apostles was written during the lifetime of Paul. This means the account could be verified by Paul himself, and many of his sufferings and experiences can be verified in Paul’s epistles.
Great point you brought up concerning Paul’s traveling companions.
Great point you brought up concerning Paul’s traveling companions.
Last edited:
R
Roseeurekacross
Guest
I am an Aussie, mate. You are trolling Catholics saying nah, that Biblical person is not credible. That person in the New Testament who took the spread of Christianity beyond Israel into the diaspora.
Read CAF rules. Arguing the credibility of St Paul in a Catholic forum is trolling. It’s insulting to Catholics, it’s insulting to Christianity.
We Catholics have the greatest respect for the Old Testament and our Jewish heritage, Abraham is our adopted spiritual patriarch too.
You are not the only one with a theology degree. It doesn’t allow you to attempt to destroy the credibility of St Paul.
Last edited:
D
Dorothy
Guest
According to private revelation, which we do not have to believe, it was His Blessed Mother (and ours.)
C
ConstantLearner
Guest
I am a thirty-three year old WOMAN, and therefore, not your “mate.”
I brought things back to topic again, and you went off-topic again.
Does it matter if MM was the first he met? He didn’t converse with her much.
F
FloridaCatholic
Guest
According to what private revelation
Last edited:
R
Roseeurekacross
Guest
I am an Aussie, doesn’t matter if you are male or female, mate.
Therefore gender does not determine ‘mate’
You haven’t been around many Aussies have you
Last edited:
C
ConstantLearner
Guest
I know. I don’t like to bring it up, but you seem to think I know nothing of Catholicism. I do.
This is a DB, not a sanctuary. I’ve not been impolite to anyone. I’ve seen arguments on here that go on for weeks, in circular fashion, in which atheists try to disprove the existence of G-d, so I think POLITE discussion is allowed. I’ve read the rules.
I pointed out MY OWN reservations with Paul. I didn’t say I expected Catholics to accept them.
Sp, let’s get back to the topic. Okay? Does it matter if Jesus met MM first? He didn’t interact with her much. He was interested in his disciples.
Last edited:
R
Roseeurekacross
Guest
This is a Catholic forum. Attempting to destroy the credibility of St Paul, a martyr to our faith, responsible for setting up and maintaining the early Christian churches, being imprisoned and killed eventually,
Is insulting to Catholics.
Then you claim Jesus didn’t talk to Mary Magdalene ( whom you reduce to mm) much
That’s also dismissive and insulting. You are trolling
Is insulting to Catholics.
Then you claim Jesus didn’t talk to Mary Magdalene ( whom you reduce to mm) much
That’s also dismissive and insulting. You are trolling
Yes it matters to the OP. And to the Authors of the Gospels!
Last edited:
C
ConstantLearner
Guest
C
ConstantLearner
Guest
Okay, but according to the gospels, he sent her to inform the disciples.
She was there at the right time, and even she didn’t recognize him. She mistook him for the gardner until he spoke her name.
R
Roseeurekacross
Guest
Mary Magdeline is her name, Saint Mary Magdalene. Not mm like a bag of chocolates. And Jesus spoke to Saint Mary Magdelene a great deal.
C
ConstantLearner
Guest
I did not write mm; I wrote MM as many of the Catholic posters here have done.
Please tell us where he speaks to her a great deal upon their first meeting.
R
Roseeurekacross
Guest
It was not a coincidence. Jesus crucified and resurrected wasn’t just hanging around doing a spot of gardening, and Saint Mary Magdalene just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
Are you really going to propose God works like that? Even for a Jewish person, who has God as Lord, Primacy Of position, over and above the monarchs of Jewish history, God does not work by random chance
Let me repeat God the Creator and author of life and time, even this minute you are taking to read this,
Is very deliberate
Last edited:
C
ConstantLearner
Guest
In Mark 16:9, it says that Jesus first appeared to Mary Magdalene. Mark doesn’t mention the other Mary or anyone else. But Mark never claimed specifically that Mary Magdalene was alone. All that we can know for certain is that Mark 16:9 is claiming that Mary Magdalene was first. Nothing more, nothing less.
In Matthew 28:9 it says that Jesus suddenly met “them” sometime after they had learned that Jesus was not in the tomb. I assume that the “them” includes Mary Magdalene and the other Mary because they are specifically named in Matthew 28:1. Matthew makes no distinction as to whether Mary Magdalene saw the risen Jesus first or if she and the other Mary saw Jesus at the same instant. So, it is possible that Mary Magdalene actually saw Jesus first and that the other Mary saw him soon after that. That would be consistent with Mark 16:9. However, perhaps Mark 16:9 only chose to focus solely on Mary Magdalene and that the other Mary was also present.
In neither passage does Jesus converse with her much, which seems plausible to me. He had things to do with the disciples.
In Matthew 28:9 it says that Jesus suddenly met “them” sometime after they had learned that Jesus was not in the tomb. I assume that the “them” includes Mary Magdalene and the other Mary because they are specifically named in Matthew 28:1. Matthew makes no distinction as to whether Mary Magdalene saw the risen Jesus first or if she and the other Mary saw Jesus at the same instant. So, it is possible that Mary Magdalene actually saw Jesus first and that the other Mary saw him soon after that. That would be consistent with Mark 16:9. However, perhaps Mark 16:9 only chose to focus solely on Mary Magdalene and that the other Mary was also present.
In neither passage does Jesus converse with her much, which seems plausible to me. He had things to do with the disciples.
- Status