Why did the talmud never get into christianity?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sublime_Prince
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Kaninchen said:
I wouldn’t take a word of it seriously, obviously.

Please supply details from somewhere other than your own scriptures.
Click to expand...
Why not? Would you mean to say we should not take the narrative parts of the Hebrew Bible seriously?
 
I know there are Jews who have come to hate all Jewry and would work in order to annihilate them! But that doesn’t mean those Jews who followed Jesus and became his apostles were such people. Certainly not Paul (formerly Saul) of Tarse! Whoever has read chapters 9, 10 and 11 of his letter to the Romans attentively would be able to see it! These chapters were an inspiration for the Vatican text Nostra Aetate, for one.
 
God promised to save the Jews first. This has always been the promise made to Israel.

When Jesus sent his disciples to the Jews it was to spread the word that the Kingdom of God is at hand repent and be baptised. It wasn’t until the fulfillment of the prophecies about the comming Messiah that the Gentiles would hear the Good News.

Once Jesus was cruxified, ressurected, and assended to Heaven, The Holy Spirit came apon the apostles and they began to peach the Good News to the Jews for the first 10 years of Christianity before preaching to the Gentiles.

Those who closed their hearts to God’s revelation rejected the Good News spread by the apostles.
 
Sepharad said:
This is correct. If you notice, much of what Jesus said was directed only to Jews who believed in him (few Gentiles at that point had joined the new sect, because it was still a part of Judaism and had not become too heretical just yet).

In fact at one point Jesus said “I am sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel”! He even prefaced that comment with, “Do NOT go to the areas of the Gentiles”. That tells me that he a) never intended to form a new religion, but simply reform the one he was born into, and b) he never meant for his teachings to be given to nonJews. Paul was the one who changed all of that, historically.

Any fighting or “persecution” between Jews and Christians (the Nazarene sect of Judaism, as it was known then) could be compared to modern-day verbal battles between Orthodox and Reform Jews…in fact when I read about such arguments and “battles”, I often am reminded of the first century regular Jewish vs Christian Jewish polemical battles and fightings.

And I agree: to compare such minor skirmishes with gas chambers, ovens, blood libels, setting synagogues aflame with entire medieval Jewish communities locked inside, is hardly any comparison, and it boggles the mind to think anyone could even make such a comparison.
Click to expand...
Persecution of Christians could be “compared to modern-day verbal battles between Orthodox and Reform Jews”?
Do modern day Jews stone each other to death when they “verbally battle”?

Also - tell me, Sepharad - when did the Church put Jews in ovens and gas chambers and torch filled synagogues?
**I can’t wait for *this *answer! **

**The History Channel migh have a documentary on it . . .:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: **
 
Kaninchen said:
Oh, I take it with about the same seriousness with which the average Catholic would take the Book of Mormon, I expect.
It would be quite expected, I guess. But sometimes some remarks of yours seem designed to make the Catholic Church look like she is phoney. I would hate to treat the Jews that way!

What’s the ‘Hebrew Bible’?
Click to expand...
Well, you should know: the TaNaKH..
 
elvisman said:
Persecution of Christians could be “compared to modern-day verbal battles between Orthodox and Reform Jews”?
Do modern day Jews stone each other to death when they “verbally battle”?

Also - tell me, Sepharad - when did the Church put Jews in ovens and gas chambers and torch filled synagogues?
**I can’t wait for *this ***answer!

The History Channel migh have a documentary on it . . .:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Click to expand...
Well, I find your question worthwhile, elvisman. I wish I could say the same about your sarcasm at the end, but I can’t!
 
Lapell said:
It would be quite expected, I guess. But sometimes some remarks of yours seem designed to make the Catholic Church look like she is phoney.
Click to expand...
To which the response is a rather inevitable: “if you know you won’t like the answer, why ask the question?”

If one believes the ‘New Testament’ is, somehow, ‘reportage’, then one is/would be a Christian, if one doesn’t, one isn’t/wouldn’t be. I don’t regard the Catholic Church as any more phony than you would regard Sunni Islam as phony or the Mormon Church as phony.
I would hate to treat the Jews that way!
Click to expand...
No, you treat us to continuous attempts to convert us and get a bit cross when we don’t go along with the program.
Well, you should know: the TaNaKH…
Click to expand...
Why not use the term - ‘Hebrew Bible’ can mean the Christian bible translated into Hebrew.
 
Lapell said:
Well, I find your question worthwhile, elvisman. I wish I could say the same about your sarcasm at the end, but I can’t!
Click to expand...
**It’s an effort - maybe a futile one - to inject humor and keep acrimony out of this thread. 😉 **
 
It’s disgusting to point out that the poster shouldn’t rely on the History Channel for the truth?

Read the earlier posts in this thread - IN CONTEXT - regarding the matter and you might change your tone. But, then again, maybe not . . .
 
Apparently, you haven’t read all the posts. I pointed out to Sepharad several times (see posts 55 & 57) that the History Channel and it’s twisted anti-Christian and anti-Jewish agenda shouldn’t be used for gleaning the truth.

**Jokes about the holocaust? Where are you getting *that *from?? 🤷 **

Whereas, I realize your intentions are noble - please don’t make these ridiculous accuations.
 
Kaninchen said:
To which the response is a rather inevitable: “if you know you won’t like the answer, why ask the question?”

If one believes the ‘New Testament’ is, somehow, ‘reportage’, then one is/would be a Christian, if one doesn’t, one isn’t/wouldn’t be. I don’t regard the Catholic Church as any more phony than you would regard Sunni Islam as phony or the Mormon Church as phony.

Well, do you have to be Christian to believe the account of the Acts of the Apostles? Have you heard of André Chouraqui, who translated the whole Bible, OT and NT, including the Deuterocanonical Books not included in the TaNaKH. Quite remarkable for a Jew born in Algeria who wrote also a translation or the Qur’an. And he has remained a Jew. He also wrote commentaries on the OT Books, on the Books and letters of the NT, and also on the Qur’an. You probably would be surprised at some of his comments, given the fact that he did not feel drawn to Christianity per se nor to Islam…

No, you treat us to continuous attempts to convert us and get a bit cross when we don’t go along with the program.

Me personally? You are free to think that if you like, but it’s not the case. I just KNOW it wouldn’t work with you, so I’m not even trying… I just hate to deny facts, even those you won’t believe. As for what the Jewish people has suffered, I don’t want to deny it, certainly not the horrors of the Holocaust! Not even the things you as a people have suffered prior to it, even though in some cases the record needs to be straightened a bit. Like when you and others say “the Catholic Church” for “important people among the Catholics”, which is not quite the same thing. Even when some of those Catholics were priests or even bishops. “The Catholic Church” does things according to Jesus’ spirit. Persecuting the Jews is not and can’t be one of them. Even if many groups of Catholics persecuted Jews, they were NOT following Jesus, spirit in doing so. Even when some thought they were!

Why not use the term - ‘Hebrew Bible’ can mean the Christian bible translated into Hebrew.

I merely used that term because some Jews also use it. André Chouraqui did.
Click to expand...
 
**Jharek - **
This is a thread about why the Talmud wasn’t included in Christian teaching. Some non-Christian posters were perpetuating myths about “the Church” committing some very specific atrocities - which it most certainly did not.
Certain people within the Church or in the name of the Church may have done these things but they were not speaking FOR the Church.

If you have a beef with me about my sense of humor - or lack thereof - start another thread or PM me as this has nothing to do with the thread. You have completely misconstrued the point of this thread and twisted my words.

That said - I await Sepharad’s respons to my questions before you decided to hijack our conversation with your confusion.
 
Lapell said:
Well, do you have to be Christian to believe the account of the Acts of the Apostles?
Click to expand...
To take it as ‘reportage’, I would expect so.
I just hate to deny facts, even those you won’t believe.
Click to expand...
Well, at least you should, by now, know my opinion of those ‘facts’. You’ve read my comments often enough.
As for what the Jewish people has suffered, I don’t want to deny it, certainly not the horrors of the Holocaust!
Click to expand...
This isn’t about the Holocaust, it’s about us naughty, naughty Jews and our supposed persecution of Christians.
 
Angelos said:
I hope the following verses from the New Testament will be helpful:

**Luke 2:29-32 **
Now thou dost dismiss thy servant, O Lord, according to thy word in peace: Because my eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all peoples: A light to the revelation of the Gentiles and the glory of thy people Israel.

**John 1:10-12 **
He was in the world: and the world was made by him: and the world knew him not. He came unto his own: and his own received him not. But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.

**Matthew 24:14 **
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations: and then shall the consummation come.
Click to expand...
Why would they be? They’re not relevant to the discussion, are they? We were discussing the fact that Jesus claimed to have been sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, and he told his followers not to go to the Gentiles.
 
When I referred to gas chambers and ovens (along with blood libels, etc), I was referring to an assortment of events in the centuries-long persecution of Jews by Europeans, mostly all of whom were Christians at least in form if not in practice.
 
Kaninchen said:
To which the response is a rather inevitable: “if you know you won’t like the answer, why ask the question?”
Click to expand...
Hum! I had to look back at the series of posts to understand why you were saying this…
The fact is you made it sound as though the account of the Acts of the Apostles could not be true at all. You may want not to read any of it, but to immediately assume it’s not true when you don’t know that for sure looks to me like a case of false testimony. Anyhow, History in its entirety, you certainly know it, is far from having covered every single thing, even among the important ones. The Acts of the Apostles is a written account. I don’t know if there has existed other accounts of the things recorded there… If you don’t want to read the Acts of the Apostles, simply say so! You don’t need to make it sound as though it’s necessarily false when you don’t know that!
 
Kaninchen said:
This isn’t about the Holocaust, it’s about us naughty, naughty Jews and our supposed persecution of Christians.
Click to expand...
Well, if you want to include Jews of the present time, and those from after the reign of emperor Constantin, it’s your call, not mine. Or maybe you just wouldn’t call it persecution? After all, it was all between Jews back then!
 
Sepharad said:
When I referred to gas chambers and ovens (along with blood libels, etc), I was referring to an assortment of events in the centuries-long persecution of Jews by Europeans, mostly all of whom were Christians at least in form if not in practice.
Click to expand...
Fair enough - BUT, again, it must be pointed out that this was not the work of the Church. I’m sure that there are evil people of Jewish heritage out there and I would NEVER blame the whole of Judaism for their wrong-doing.

**As for the ovens and gas chambers, please don’t ever lump Hitler in with any form of Christianity. His beliefs spanned a wide variety of religious distortions that included pagan gods, occultism and a twisted and perverted form of “Christianity” that could never be mistaken for the real thing - no matter what the History Channel says. **
*(I just had to throw that in one more time!) 😉 *
 
elvisman said:
Fair enough - BUT, again, it must be pointed out that this was not the work of the Church. I’m sure that there are evil people of Jewish heritage out there and I would NEVER blame the whole of Judaism for their wrong-doing.

As for the ovens and gas chambers, please don’t ever lump Hitler in with any form of Christianity. His beliefs spanned a wide variety of religious distortions that included pagan gods, occultism and a twisted and perverted form of “Christianity” that could never be mistaken for the real thing - no matter what the History Channel says.
*(I just had to throw that in one more time!) 😉 *
Click to expand...
You said “the Church” never did anything to harm the Jews.

Please look over this list and tell me if you think this supports what you said:

sullivan-county.com/news/mine/timeline.htm
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top