Why did the talmud never get into christianity?

[Eden]

Please supply details.

The most famous is, of course, the Jewish man Saul (Paul) who, by his own testimonial, had vigorously persecuted Christians before his conversion. Of what benefit would it be for him to claim to be participating in persecution of Christians, if it weren’t true? If you can give a convincing answer to that, then I’ll agree to disagree about the authenticity of the rest of his claims.

 

[Kaninchen]

The most famous is, of course, the Jewish man Saul (Paul) who, by his own testimonial, had vigorously persecuted Christians before his conversion. Of what benefit would it be for him to claim to be participating in persecution of Christians, if it weren’t true? If you can give a convincing answer to that, then I’ll agree to disagree about the authenticity of the rest of his claims.

So, there’s not the slightest evidence outside your own scriptures.

 

[Eden]

So, there’s not the slightest evidence outside your own scriptures.

You are not going to comment on the testimony of the Jewish convert Paul, who personally said he participated in persecuting Christians?

And I’m not aware of Jewish records detailing the persecution of Christians, if that is what you are looking for. I highly doubt they would have recorded it.

I based my comment on the historical study by James Everett Seaver:

“The following examination of the sources for fourth century Jewish history will show that the universal, tenacious, and malicious Jewish hatred of Christianity referred to by the church fathers and countless others has no existence in historical fact. The generalizations of patristic writers in support of the accusation have been wrongly interpreted from the fourth century to the present day.8 That individual Jews hated and reviled the Christians there can be no doubt, but there is no evidence that the Jews as a class hated and persecuted the Christians as a class during the early years of the fourth century. Jewish hatred was rather directed toward the Gentile Romans who had despoiled the Temple and kept the Jews from Jerusalem. Evidence that the Jews took no part in the great persecutions of the second, third, and fourth centuries comes not from Jewish sources nor from inference, nor from later generalization, but from the Acta Sanctorum, which records the lives of the very martyrs whose deaths are in question. The responsibility for the persecution of Christians lay completely with the Romans and not with the Jews after the first century of our era. Scattered throughout the Acta Sanctorum, however, are many references to Jewish hostility and often violence towards the Christians. An examination of those Acta involving the Jews may help to show first: how small a part of the vast number of fourth century martyrs were molested by the Jews; and second: how dangerous these documents are for use as historical evidence, since the fanciful and imaginative are inextricably entwined with the kernel of fact.”

vlib.iue.it/carrie/texts/carrie_books/seaver/text.html

Like I said, it’s accepted by historians as fact that individual Jews hated and reviled the Christians. Considering the fact that Jews were under the control of the Roman authorities, it is not surprising that attacks on Christians would have been on an individual basis and not a collective activity. Can you provide evidence contrary to Paul’s claims that he persecuted Christians before his conversion, for instance?

 

[Kaninchen]

Can you provide evidence contrary to Paul’s claims that he persecuted Christians before his conversion, for instance?

I can’t provide evidence contrary to Gandalf either.

 

[Eden]

I can’t provide evidence contrary to Gandalf either.

That’s a pretty pathetic response. Is that really the quality of discourse you seek?

 

[Yerusalyim]

The Talmud did not become a part of Christianity’s literature because the focus of Talmud is understanding how to apply the Law (you recall the 613 Mosaic Laws found in scripture) to daily life. As observance of the Law was deemphasized for Jewish Christians and not applicable at all to Gentile Christians, it follows that Talmud would not be considered important to Christians.

As to suppossedly anti-Christian or anti-Jesus passages of Talmud, show them to me in a JEWISH source, and then we can address them.

 

[Sepharad]

So, there’s not the slightest evidence outside your own scriptures.

You saved me some typing, thanks!

 

[Valke2]

Sorry to interrupt but, the last time somebody put this forward, they didn’t actually know what was happening to Jews at the time.

Not to mention that any sukch persecution happened when everyone was still Jewish. IF it happened, it happened between Jews. From what I have read there is little (and that is being generous) evidence that Jews persecuted christians. And to suggest, as so many on these boards seem to do, that there is some sort of parity between jewish persecution of “christians” and the persecution of jews by christians is beyond ludicrous. I don’t know how anyone can post such nonsense.

 

[Valke2]

Most of the writings and programs written and made about the Inquisition are made with an anti-Catholic bias. An example where you can see this is on the History channel. Historically, Protestants have written falsehoods about the Inquisitions and now since the media is controlled by the Jews, it is their turn to dictate THEIR own version of history to us.

Checkout this good CD book.

catholiccompany.com/catholic-gifts/8001189/Fire-Sword-Crusade-Inquisition-Reformation-CDs/?category=17

Check out this website. www.stopblamingyourlifefonjewishcontroledmedia.com

 

[Valke2]

it is an historical fact individual Jews hated and reviled Christians in the first centuries of Christianity.

It is probably also a historical fact that individual jews hated broccoli. And just as relevant to this thread.

 

[Sepharad]

Not to mention that any sukch persecution happened when everyone was still Jewish. IF it happened, it happened between Jews. From what I have read there is little (and that is being generous) evidence that Jews persecuted christians. And to suggest, as so many on these boards seem to do, that there is some sort of parity between jewish persecution of “christians” and the persecution of jews by christians is beyond ludicrous. I don’t know how anyone can post such nonsense.

This is correct. If you notice, much of what Jesus said was directed only to Jews who believed in him (few Gentiles at that point had joined the new sect, because it was still a part of Judaism and had not become too heretical just yet).

In fact at one point Jesus said “I am sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel”! He even prefaced that comment with, “Do NOT go to the areas of the Gentiles”. That tells me that he a) never intended to form a new religion, but simply reform the one he was born into, and b) he never meant for his teachings to be given to nonJews. Paul was the one who changed all of that, historically.

Any fighting or “persecution” between Jews and Christians (the Nazarene sect of Judaism, as it was known then) could be compared to modern-day verbal battles between Orthodox and Reform Jews…in fact when I read about such arguments and “battles”, I often am reminded of the first century regular Jewish vs Christian Jewish polemical battles and fightings.

And I agree: to compare such minor skirmishes with gas chambers, ovens, blood libels, setting synagogues aflame with entire medieval Jewish communities locked inside, is hardly any comparison, and it boggles the mind to think anyone could even make such a comparison.

 

[inJESUS]

In fact at one point Jesus said “I am sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel”! He even prefaced that comment with, “Do NOT go to the areas of the Gentiles”.

these are totally different incidents…in the first one, Jesus was already talking to a non-Jew and granting her wish because of her faith, in him, not her father’s faith , in the second example it was the disciples’ first mission. So your conculsions, specifically the one about Paul is wrong.

 

[Sepharad]

these are totally different incidents…in the first one, Jesus was already talking to a non-Jew and granting her wish because of her faith, in him

, not her father’s faith , in the second example it was the disciples’ first mission. So your conculsions, specifically the one about Paul is wrong.

I seem to remember those quotes being in the same passage, or very close to each other.

Hmm, Matthew 10, seems I was right:

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2010&version=9;

5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

(Sorry for using the KJV, it was the first link I found when Googling “Matthew 10”.)

 

[Kaninchen]

That’s a pretty pathetic response. Is that really the quality of discourse you seek?

Good grief!

It takes you long enough to take the hint doesn’t it?

 

[inJESUS]

In fact at one point Jesus said “I am sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel”!

 

[Sepharad]

this is in Matthew 15 when he granted the woman’s request because of her faith, even though He said He is only come to the lost sheep of Israel.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;3800963:

Please re-read my post 49. I quoted directly from Mt 10 in which he said BOTH, in the same context.

you mentioned : sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel and you mentioned do NOT go to gentile lands…the first is NOT in Mt10 but Mt15.

 

[Sepharad]

Sepharad;3800967:

you mentioned : sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel and you mentioned do NOT go to gentile lands…the first is NOT in Mt10 but Mt15.

Sorry…I don’t have both passages in front of me to compare.

The point was: at some point, Jesus said not to go to the Gentiles, and that his mission is to the Jews. Therefore illustrating my point that I feel he never meant to found a new religion, but to reform the one he was already in.

 

[Angelos]

Sorry…I don’t have both passages in front of me to compare.

The point was: at some point, Jesus said not to go to the Gentiles, and that his mission is to the Jews. Therefore illustrating my point that I feel he never meant to found a new religion, but to reform the one he was already in.

I hope the following verses from the New Testament will be helpful:

**Luke 2:29-32 **
Now thou dost dismiss thy servant, O Lord, according to thy word in peace: Because my eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all peoples: A light to the revelation of the Gentiles and the glory of thy people Israel.

**John 1:10-12 **
He was in the world: and the world was made by him: and the world knew him not. He came unto his own: and his own received him not. But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.

**Matthew 24:14 **
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations: and then shall the consummation come.

 

[Lapell]

Yes but Ferdinand and Isabella were very devout Catholics…esp. Isabella…at least that is what Catholic history books claim. I’d think if the Pope truly had ordered them to stop, they would have done so.

As devout as they could have been, they still were not “the Catholic Church”! A tree isn’t the whole forest all by itself!