....why didn't jews accept Christ as the messia?

[Zundrah]

I think you misunderstood me.

.

I probably did.

If Jesus were really the Christ,

…which he is.

then the Jews’ rejection of him would put their souls in peril.

No, not really, since if Christ is the messiah (which evidently he is) then their rejection of him is most likely only of two ways; ignorance or indeed full stubborness.

If they really do think that Jesus is the messiah, then being “stubborn” would just be stupid and self-destructive

It is stupid, and it is self-destructive, for “if anyone does not believe then they are already condemned.” You must accept your saviour because he is the one and only lamb that’s sacrifice pays for ALL sins. The sins of the world and not just the sins of one person like the old ways were; one lamb to repent ones sins.

 

[Caramel]

Christ came, he died and left us. Jews know this, but they are stubborn and will not even accept what God said would happen!

Zundrah, I am a Catholic like you and I have read most of the posts in this discussion. I would like to try to point out a few things that maybe you haven’t considered.

You have the gift of faith. You are blessed with that gift. But it comes at a cost. I don’t think you are getting what these most of these people are telling you.

They don’t believe it. Would you believe me if I told you that a giant green rabbit flew down from the sky and performed miracles and turned water into wine and gave herself up for the sins of mankind? I don’t think you would and of course you shouldn’t. I know that Jesus fulfilled some of the prophecies from the OT but the Jewish people were looking for a messiah that would rebuild Jerusalem. Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world and many Jewish people didn’t like that or understand that because of their belief in a messiah that would act in this world, now.

Even the twelve Apostles, who walked with Jesus and ate with Jesus and talked to Jesus face-to-face and saw the miracles He performed with their own eyes didn’t understand. One betrayed him; one denied him three times in a short period of time. Even after Jesus was resurrected they didn’t understand. And even after He ascended into heaven they hid in fear. It wasn’t until the Pentecost that they were given the gifts of strong faith and courage from the Holy Spirit. It turned them from cowering, terrified people into people who were willing to go out and spread the message and offer their lives up as martyrs if necessary. It wasn’t as clear-cut as you might think.

One who has unquestionable faith in God is blessed and cursed at the same time. It’s so obvious to you!! It’s so obvious that you cannot comprehend why anyone would have doubt and that is the curse. You can’t identify with those of us who don’t have that unquestioning faith. I wish I had your faith. I don’t. I struggle daily with faith issues. Sometimes I even wonder if God exists at all. I was an agnostic for many, many years and even now I struggle. I am a “Doubting Thomas.” I admit it. And I would bet that more Catholics struggle with their faith than those who don’t.

I hope this makes some sense to you. I think I can relate to your frustration simply because I personally know someone who also has that unquestioning faith and she has told me that sometimes it is very hard. I told her I was jealous of her. Now I’m not so jealous because I realized (not too long ago, like about yesterday ) that it isn’t easy even for one who is blessed with such faith.

If I had the faith that you have I think I would get down on my knees and thank God for this gift and pray for the people who don’t have it, whether they be Christian, Jewish, Quaker, Protestant, agnostic, atheist or whatever. Prayer is always good if it comes from someone with a pure heart.

The Jewish people are the Chosen People. He won’t abandon them. As Catholics we must respect them for Jesus was Jewish, too.

God bless!!

 

[Anna_Scott]

There is a book called “Why the Jews Rejected Jesus” and I think it’s by a guy named David Klinghoffer. . .It was too much of a mental burden for me to finish reading Klinghoffer’s book. Simply put, he doesn’t have faith in Jesus Christ. . .

Christians have been telling other Christians–and the Jewish people, why the Jews rejected Jesus, for nearly 2000 yrs. I think we owe the Jews the respect of listening to what they have to say.

I also read “Why the Jews Rejected Jesus.” There were some parts that were very informative. A few parts would, by nature, be offensive to Christians. However, the author’s comments were no more offensive than some of the Christian comments to Jews here at CAF.

It seems we, Christians, can “dish it out,” but we “don’t take it” so well.

When I look back over the history of Christianity and all the persecution of the Jews at the hands of Christians; I am quite astonished that any Jew would convert to Christianity.

Historically, have Christians demonstrated the love of Christ to the Jewish people? I would say, “no.”

There was a very important question in the book, “Why the Jews Rejected Jesus.” Paraphrased: If God is God, and He makes the rules, why does anyone have to die for our salvation. I still have not been able to answer this question. Earlier today, I posted this on the Thread entitled, Jews, the Talmud, and Jesus. Cut and paste below:

The O.T. does reveal a point, when God seemed to no longer desire a sacrifice or blood atonement for sins.

Micah 6: 6 “With what shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? 7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?” 8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

**Proverbs 21: **2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the heart. 3 To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

**Jeremiah 7: **22 **For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. **23But this command I gave them: ‘Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people. And walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.’

Even in the N.T. we find Jesus quoting Hosea 6:6:

Matthew 9: 12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 **Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ **For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Hosea 6: 4 What shall I do with you, O Ephraim? What shall I do with you, O Judah? Your love is like a morning cloud, like the dew that goes early away. 5 Therefore I have hewn them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth, and my judgment goes forth as the light. 6 For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

One of the most intriguing passages in the NT reveals Jesus agreeing that loving God and your neighbor is more important than “all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him. 33 And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

This seems to be a very strange thing for Jesus to say, since he came as the ultimate sacrifice for our sins.

Also, throughout the NT, Jesus forgave sins. Not once did he tell those he forgave to go and make a sacrifice to complete the forgiveness.

In addition, John proclaimed Baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Luke 3: 2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. 3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 1: 4 **John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. **5 And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

If God is God, and He makes the rules, why did anyone have to die for our salvation?

 

[chosen_people]

But you are an athiest so according to your beliefs even God is fictional?

Christ came, he died and left us. Jews know this, but they are stubborn and will not even accept what God said would happen!

Certainly it bears examining whether the Jews do no accept your beliefs due to an intellectual deficiency that prevents them from comprehension or whether Jews suffer from a serious deficiency of character which causes Jews to wilfully reject obvious truths.

Of course the other possibility is that God in making His eternal covenant with the Jewish people didn’t get it wrong and didn’t require a “new” covenant that is the antithesis to the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people. Perhaps the Jews ability to be able to conceive of God without imagining God in “human” form, as an animate or inanimate object, something that few have been able to do before or since, simply shows a comprehension that many others have not yet reached. Perhaps Torah in its widest sense was possible among the Jews not because of an intellectual or character deficiency but simply because they had reached universal male literacy some 1700 years before their non Jewish neighbours.

 

[Zundrah]

Certainly it bears examining whether the Jews do no accept your beliefs due to an intellectual deficiency that prevents them from comprehension or whether Jews suffer from a serious deficiency of character which causes Jews to wilfully reject obvious truths.

Of course the other possibility is that God in making His eternal covenant with the Jewish people didn’t get it wrong and didn’t require a “new” covenant that is the antithesis to the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people. Perhaps the Jews ability to be able to conceive of God without imagining God in “human” form, as an animate or inanimate object, something that few have been able to do before or since, simply shows a comprehension that many others have not yet reached. Perhaps Torah in its widest sense was possible among the Jews not because of an intellectual or character deficiency but simply because they had reached universal male literacy some 1700 years before their non Jewish neighbours.

Hmm, but the thing that I find hard to understand is that you don’t believe what God promised you? So when is “your” messiah coming?

 

[trdchubi]

I always stood by with the people of Eretz Israel who were fighting for their preservation and their right to live in the Holy Land especially the Jewish Catholics and Christians there.

Having to deal with the “Other faithful” People called to be beacons of Hashem’s unwavering faithfulness is, sometimes, very disappointing.

Although, I believe that it is plainly God’s charitable will that their rejection of Christ Jesus be a blessing to us and those who are yet to see the Light of His Salvation .

Zundrah try to reflect on this one:

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited**: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in**. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

"The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins. Romans 11:25-27

Might as well read this one:
**
Why Don’t (Most) Jews Believe in Jesus?**

 

[Anna_Scott]

I always stood by with the people of Eretz Israel who were fighting for their preservation and their right to live in the Holy Land especially the Jewish Catholics and Christians there.

Having to deal with the “Other faithful” People called to be beacons of Hashem’s unwavering faithfulness is, sometimes, very disappointing.

Although, I believe that it is plainly God’s charitable will that their rejection of Christ Jesus be a blessing to us and those who are yet to see the Light of His Salvation .

Zundrah try to reflect on this one:

Might as well read this one:
**
Why Don’t (Most) Jews Believe in Jesus?**

trdchubi:

This is an excellent post. I read the article and it covered some very key ideas regarding the reasons the Jews reject Jesus.

I think many Christians are unaware of the violent history of Christianity and persecution of the Jews.

It is actually quite amazing that the Jews have been so forgiving of past actions of those who called themselves Christians.

I would recommend all Christians read the article you linked.

Anna

 

[chosen_people]

Hmm, but the thing that I find hard to understand is that you don’t believe what God promised you? So when is “your” messiah coming?

Well actually I was going to ask you when you believe your Messiah was going to come to bring the Messianic age. The Messiah will come and it will be the fulfilment of God’s everlasting covenant with the Jewish people not its rejection or correction. Also when it does happen I’m pretty sure it will be obvious to all.

 

[chosen_people]

trdchubi:

This is an excellent post. I read the article and it covered some very key ideas regarding the reasons the Jews reject Jesus.

I think many Christians are unaware of the violent history of Christianity and persecution of the Jews.

It is actually quite amazing that the Jews have been so forgiving of past actions of those who called themselves Christians.

I would recommend all Christians read the article you linked.

Anna

For those righteous Catholics having the fortitude to be willing to take an extremely uncomfortable and unpleasant but necessary journey on the subject of mordern anti-Semitism and the Catholic Church may I recommend The Popes against the Jews by David Kertzer.

 

[chosen_people]

I always stood by with the people of Eretz Israel who were fighting for their preservation and their right to live in the Holy Land especially the Jewish Catholics and Christians there.

Having to deal with the “Other faithful” People called to be beacons of Hashem’s unwavering faithfulness is, sometimes, very disappointing.

Although, I believe that it is plainly God’s charitable will that their rejection of Christ Jesus be a blessing to us and those who are yet to see the Light of His Salvation .

Zundrah try to reflect on this one:

Might as well read this one:
**
Why Don’t (Most) Jews Believe in Jesus?**

One cannot accept Christian beliefs concerning Yeshua bar Yosef and be Jewish.

 

[RobbyS]

Certainly it bears examining whether the Jews do no accept your beliefs due to an intellectual deficiency that prevents them from comprehension or whether Jews suffer from a serious deficiency of character which causes Jews to wilfully reject obvious truths.

Of course the other possibility is that God in making His eternal covenant with the Jewish people didn’t get it wrong and didn’t require a “new” covenant that is the antithesis to the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people. Perhaps the Jews ability to be able to conceive of God without imagining God in “human” form, as an animate or inanimate object, something that few have been able to do before or since, simply shows a comprehension that many others have not yet reached. Perhaps Torah in its widest sense was possible among the Jews not because of an intellectual or character deficiency but simply because they had reached universal male literacy some 1700 years before their non Jewish neighbours.

In his History of the Jews, Paul Johnson speculates that many, many Jews did accept Christ during the early centuries of the Church. Rabbinical judaism did not take shape until after the destruction of the temple, and while it remained the core belief of the Diaspora, it certainly could not prevent many of its members from being attracted to Christianity. Look at the way that Reform Judaism has attracted American Jews, has become an American expression of Judaism. Many Jews might have seen Christianity as the Jews saw the Enlightenment --a way of reconciling their tradition with the civilization in which they lived.

 

[chosen_people]

In his History of the Jews, Paul Johnson speculates that many, many Jews did accept Christ during the early centuries of the Church. Rabbinical judaism did not take shape until after the destruction of the temple, and while it remained the core belief of the Diaspora, it certainly could not prevent many of its members from being attracted to Christianity. Look at the way that Reform Judaism has attracted American Jews, has become an American expression of Judaism. Many Jews might have seen Christianity as the Jews saw the Enlightenment --a way of reconciling their tradition with the civilization in which they lived.

With your permission I’ll leave the reform Judaism argument aside though I believe you would be more correct to refer to the Conservative movement of Judaism in the United States.

The problem is that there is no comparative enlightenment, certainly not from a Christian point of view. The Christians did not enjoy the privi lege (read as two words c.p.) of the Jews and were themselves being persecuted by the Romans and literally thrown to the lions. Until the fourth century they would not become mainstream. The Diaspora already existed to a lesser extent in the first century of the common era and developments were already in place for religious Jewish practice away from the Temple. The oral law was already highly developed. The Jews were busy with their political and later religious problems with the Romans and the Christians would not join the Jews in this fight. I have never been able to find any scholarly basis for the speculation that there was a large movement of Jews to Christianity during the first centuries of the common era. The whole development of Christianity at this time is in a way that concentrates on attracting the Pagan and creating an anti Jewish atmosphere both from Christian religious tenets as well as socially. The rapid decrease of the Jewish population by some one third is the result of the Jewish anti Roman revolts between 66 c.e. - 135 c.e. If there is some logic or evidence to point to a large shift of Jews at this time , as opposed to a growing number of Pagans, to Christianity it has always eluded me and I would posit that such speculation is baseless and without scholarly foundation.

 

[trdchubi]

An explanation from Judaism 101 on Who is the Messiah:

The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5).

Jesus inspired confidence in his followers.
He knew what he was doing and where he was going in his leadership.
He was able to communicate effectively with those he expected to follow him.
He had genuine faith in his disciples.
He conducted himself as a leader.
He believed in helping his disciples improve themselves and in their ability to do their job.
He had a clear vision of his objectives.
His followers trusted his leadership.
He inspired loyalty.
He defended his disciples against all outside forces. ** Check**

The mashiach is often referred to as “mashiach ben David” (mashiach, son of David).

Jesus: Son of David, Son of Abraham, Son of Adam, Son of God (Luke 3:23-38). Check

He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5).

Jesus at the young age of 12 was . (Luke 2:46-47) Check

He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example.

Jesus has followers in drove. (Mark 5:21-25) and of course He established the Catholic Church. Check

He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel.

Jesus succeeded against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places — on His sacrifice at the cross. Check

He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15).

Jesus the Just. (John 8:1-1) Check

But above all, he will be a human being…

Jesus was born (Luke 2:7). He grew (Luke 2:40). He grew tired (John 4:6) and got thirsty (John 19:28). He got hungry (Matthew 4:2) and was physically weak (Matthew 4:11; Luke 23:26). Check

It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the mashiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person’s lifetime, then that person will be the mashiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the mashiach, then that person is not the mashiach.

Jesus said: “It is finished” (John 19:28-30) Check

 

[trdchubi]

One cannot accept Christian beliefs concerning Yeshua bar Yosef and be Jewish.

How come they believed Yeshua Ha’Mashiac? Surely this didn’t make them less Jewish?

remnantofisrael.net/

hebrewcatholic.org/

hebrewcatholicsnz.com/

 

[trdchubi]

trdchubi:

This is an excellent post. I read the article and it covered some very key ideas regarding the reasons the Jews reject Jesus.

I think many Christians are unaware of the violent history of Christianity and persecution of the Jews.

It is actually quite amazing that the Jews have been so forgiving of past actions of those who called themselves Christians.

I would recommend all Christians read the article you linked.

Anna

Thank you Anna.

I pray that we will all have a deeper understanding on this issue concerning our Jewish brothers and sisters’ reluctance to accept our faith.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Okay please tell me, why didn’t jews accept Christ as the messia?

Please remember when you are posting that I haven’t got a clue about any of this and that is why I am asking (so, no writing in jargon)!

1-
claiming to be God

2- taking on sins of all people

3- there is more but its all small stuff compared to the first 2 things.

 

[Kaninchen]

It always seems as if our ‘not believing a word of it’ is some great scandal that has to be explained away, largely by us providing explanation of some great failure in ourselves not to accept the ‘checklist’.

It’s not a Jewish problem, it’s a Christian problem.

 

[Zundrah]

1-claiming to be God

2- taking on sins of all people

3- there is more but its all small stuff compared to the first 2 things.

So, Christ is a fraud? Is that what Jews believe?

 

[Zundrah]

Well actually I was going to ask you when you believe your Messiah was going to come to bring the Messianic age.

You mean the second coming? When? Well, obviously when human life needs to come to a physical end. That will be the end when the messiah comes again. Sound simple to me.

The Messiah will come

Indeed he will, it will be the “second” coming.

and it will be the fulfilment of God’s everlasting covenant with the Jewish people

Of course, what else would it be?

not its rejection or correction.

Err… say what?

Also when it does happen I’m pretty sure it will be obvious to all

Obvious how? Let me know.

 

[Zundrah]

It always seems as if our ‘not believing a word of it’ is some great scandal that has to be explained away, largely by us providing explanation of some great failure in ourselves not to accept the ‘checklist’.

It’s not a Jewish problem, it’s a Christian problem.

No my friend, it is a jewish problem. You killed what God promised you. But hey, lucky for you and us, you can still purchase his saving grace!