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phil3
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So it is god’s fault people are poor? Being poor is a gift?
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rosejmj
Guest
On the same note though, Catholicism appeals to people for similar reasons- it feels good and maybe the Mass and traditions are more their style than the Christian concerts. I know a beautiful liturgy and Church could do that for me even if I don’t believe in Christianity at all. Just some awe for the beauty and history
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rosejmj
Guest
But those same people just don’t even care enough to either have good reasons to truly believe and practice a religion wholeheartedly and with strong conviction or to have good reasons for not filling a religion due to their searching and study. Like if problems with morality and boredom is causing you to “leave”, you never really had any reason to believe in the first place except maybe because you were raised into it and just told to believe it without good cause
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rosejmj
Guest
It’s probably your way of thinking. He is probably much more scientifically and rationally inclined and you just can’t prove the existence of God or that Jesus is God and that he rose from the dead. You seem to have not really questioned the faith deeply and just always believed and that might just be because it’s comfortable and it resonates with your or because you’ve been taught you’d go to hell and so the fear overrides any doubts
In regards to eternal salvation, yes being poor is a gift. The rich have a much harder time entering heaven according to our Lord.PeterT:
So it is god’s fault people are poor? Being poor is a gift?
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Jbrady
Guest
Uuuhhhhhh… not to rain on your parade, but Jesus gave a VERY explicit answer about this when asked by the Pharisees whether they should pay taxes, and it was quite contrary to your assertion that money belongs to God.
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Bernoulli
Guest
The spiritual advantage is not poverty as such but detachment. If someone is bitter and envious while poor, it is detrimental.
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phil3
Guest
Then why are so many people so upset over people living in poverty?
Crusader13
New member
I totally get where you’re coming from. In smaller non-denominational Church’s I’ve attended and from talking with my friends who are members of these churches, there is a greater sense of belonging and family that is shown.
In many of our larger parishes you sometimes feel like just another face in the crowd. The priest is probably so busy with other demands on his time, everything else is left to the parish staff to handle.
I can’t tell you how many times, I’ve sought out the help of a particular person who was placed in charge of a certain function at Church, then to be met with “you must be a member here?” Or “I’ve never seen you before, did you just start attending?” It’s a sad feeling when you’ve been going to that parish for years.
I think in many cases, the parishes are simply too large and the dioceses so vast that people don’t feel part of the Church. This could also be why so many leave.
In many of our larger parishes you sometimes feel like just another face in the crowd. The priest is probably so busy with other demands on his time, everything else is left to the parish staff to handle.
I can’t tell you how many times, I’ve sought out the help of a particular person who was placed in charge of a certain function at Church, then to be met with “you must be a member here?” Or “I’ve never seen you before, did you just start attending?” It’s a sad feeling when you’ve been going to that parish for years.
I think in many cases, the parishes are simply too large and the dioceses so vast that people don’t feel part of the Church. This could also be why so many leave.
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I’m just stating what the Church teaches.PeterT:
Uuuhhhhhh… not to rain on your parade, but Jesus gave a VERY explicit answer about this when asked by the Pharisees whether they should pay taxes, and it was quite contrary to your assertion that money belongs to God.
But using your interpretation of that Gospel passage, then the money in your pocket does NOT belong to you, but belongs to your government and its leaders (unless of course you happen to be the “Cesar”.)
I agree. Too many parishes have become far too impersonal. And even with the convenience of modern communications, too many priests often appear not to make a concerted effort to get to know their parishioners. It’s takes time and effort to get to know people, but I think parish priests need to prioritize and make a concerted effort to get to know all the parishioners who are making an effort to get to know the priests.
In my diocese, pastors are usually assigned to a parish for a six-year term which can be renewed for another six-year term for a total of 12 years. Unless it’s a super-large parish (most parishes in my diocese have 2,000 or less families), I think that after two years, the pastor ought to recognize and be on a first-name basis with all parishioners who regularly attend Sunday Mass and who take time to greet and talk to the priests after the Mass. And they ought to be on a first-name basis with all the lay ministers that serve at the parish’s Masses by the end of their first year with the parish. Sadly, that’s not always the case.
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Lifeisbeautiful3
Guest
Why can’t a Catholic Church offer this. Perhaps not in conjunction with Mass, but as another available avenue to enjoy community and celebrate!
I’ve often wondered if the basic tenants of Mass were offered but with a different delivery (extempore, enthusiasm, modern day teaching and homilies that resonate) whether it might allow people who are far from God, for whatever reason, to legitimately be raised to life in Christ’s love. If that requires a rock concert prior to or following mass, so be it. This isn’t to say that the solemn approach to mass for the other parishioners has to be abandoned. It could be offered at another time. Allow a married deacon to say the homily.
I think this would go a long way toward helping folks who don’t prefer the traditional mass to engage.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Since Vatican II, people have already tried to do a lot of tinkering around with the Mass to try to get more people engaged and so forth. We currently have quite a few Mass options such as guitar Mass, youth Mass with rock bands, charismatic Mass, and priests have improved with their homiletics in the last couple decades.
At this point I think those efforts have gone about as far as they can go and it’s time for the Church to do less pandering, not more pandering, to people who want a fun entertainment rather than the sacrifice of Jesus when they go to church.
I like rock concerts probably way more than the average person here, but I don’t need the Catholic Church to put on a show to lure me to Mass.
At this point I think those efforts have gone about as far as they can go and it’s time for the Church to do less pandering, not more pandering, to people who want a fun entertainment rather than the sacrifice of Jesus when they go to church.
I like rock concerts probably way more than the average person here, but I don’t need the Catholic Church to put on a show to lure me to Mass.
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johnd2
Guest
You must have leadership in the Church who is responsive to the people. It also has to listen to the people. People are not going to accept leadership who is not acting responsible and acting in a timely manner. I don’t think people are leaving because they do not believe in God, they are leaving because of the corruption in leadership, they are leaving because of the teaching of the Church and how darn near everything a person does is sinful; just not sure Jesus envisioned that humans were supposed to be almost god-like. Women especially feel rejected in the Church as they have little say and are expected to stay married to abusive or cheating spouses. I could go on, but in summary, the Church has become a huge bureaucracy that is not responsive to the people; since they cannot change the system and no one will listen to them, they move on.
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