Why do Catholics believe in Purgatory and Protestants do not?

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Calvin:
I think what most Protestants (and Orthodox) dispute is the idea of Purgatory as a place like Heaven or Hell. The idea of purgatory (lower case) as a time of purification is accepted by most Orthodox and some Protestants.

-C
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I agree. On a Fundamentalist Christian Families board I used to visit (stopped b/c it got too frustrating :banghead: ), they frequently discussed some sort of final “forgiveness” that would occur after death but b/f entrance into heaven. They used the verses from Paul about being saved but only through fire, as well as the verse talking about the sin that can’t be forgiven “either in this world or the next” (sorry, can’t remember exact citations right now) for this belief.

When I would point out that this is pretty much the same as the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, I would be ignored. I think the problem is that some protestants (especially the evangelical and/or fundamentalist anti-Catholic variety), can’t let go of their own preconceived erroneous notion of what the Church teaches. I’ve had people on that board insist that the Church teaches purgatory is a place where you get a “second chance” if someone on earth can “pay your way out of it” (indulgences). No matter how many times I’ve explained that’s not true, and what the actual doctrine is, like I said before, I was ignored. They just don’t want to admit that they share one of the hated “man made” Catholic beliefs.

Ellen
 
1962 Missal,

I should explain that I am definitely not a “classical Protestant.” I’m a rather strange hodge-podge of Wesleyan Protestantism and Anglo-Catholicism. I used the term “classical Protestant” because I’m all too aware that some Protestants do give sanctification short shrift, and at any rate any statement beginning “Protestants believe” is likely to be false. What I described is the classical Protestant position, I believe, but my Wesleyan tradition would be considerably closer to Catholicism (and I’m a good deal more Catholic in my theology than Wesley, let alone most of those who claim spiritual descent from him!). I wouldn’t have a problem with the statement you cited, although I would prefer to avoid putting it in terms of “punishment,” and most Protestants would be far more wary of that language.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
JimG wrote:

:If, as you indicated, many Protestants believe not only in sanctification, but in the completion of sanctification after death, then I do not see how it is incompatible with the Catholic concept of purgatory.:

Probably only a few Protestants would be comfortable speaking of santification as being completed after death; far more would say that it happens at the moment of death. That appears to have been the position of John Wesley, although he also believed that you could become “perfect in love” in this life. Probably the more common view among “classical Protestants” (certainly this is what the Reformers appear to have thought) is that sin remains in the life of a believer because we are still in an unglorified body. At death, sin simply drops off with the body. I find this way too “gnostic” in its identification of sin with the body. I suppose I might be willing to distinguish between sins, or at least temptations, that are a consequence of existence in this life, and sins that are a consequence of our failure to be entirely transformed by God’s love. In a Wesleyan view, arguably the former would drop off with the body, while the latter would hopefully be gotten rid of in this life, but otherwise would be purged away at the moment of death. Protestants have not normally spoken of this as a painful process or called it “purgatory,” but Jerry Walls (a Methodist who wrote an interesting article in First Things on purgatory) argues that they have no good reason not to do so.

: Since after death, there is no time as such, we have no way of defining any “duration” for purgatory.
:
And that of course depends on what we think about time–I know Walls (whom I keep citing) would not accept that view, because he thinks that we are the kind of beings who cannot change except through a temporal process. If one believes (as Gregory of Nyssa did) that change and growth are never-ending processes for human beings, then there will always be some sort of “time” for us even if it is very different from what we know as “time.”

One other note–while I’d say that the purging away of whatever in us is incompatible with God’s presence will have an end (and as long as it lasts would be painful, and hence would be “purgatory”), our positive transformation into God’s likeness is never complete, because God’s goodness is infinite.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
bbas 64:
Because they are told they must, therefore they do. We are not required to carry such a yoke, so most of us do not.

That was easy.

Bill
Yoke? Purgatory is not a burden to carry but a joy to be anticipated. It is a most consoling and logical doctrine. C.S. Lewis, that Evangelical favorite, found Purgatory so logical he believed in it and prayed for the dead (check out Letters to Malcolm.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ecstatic to be Catholic!
 
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Katholikos:
Yoke? Purgatory is not a burden to carry but a joy to be anticipated. It is a most consoling and logical doctrine. C.S. Lewis, that Evangelical favorite, found Purgatory so logical he believed in it and prayed for the dead (check out Letters to Malcolm.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ecstatic to be Catholic!
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STOP THE PRESSES!!! Katholikos and I agree, this is definitely a day to mark on the calendar or Kalandar.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
The belief of purgurtory is just that {A BELIEF]. It is pure speculation, for no one has come back to this earth and revealed this process. I do know this, that my sins are forgiven. They haved been washed as white as snow. Jesus does not look back at our sins. The cross and his precious blood have taken care of them. We can discuss this all day long,but the bottom line is ,we as christians will enter into the kingdom of heaven. Maybe some of us will come quicker. God Bless 👍
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Purgatory is not about the forgiveness of sins, but about the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.

Protestants believe they can sin, and by simply believing they’re home free. Catholics know that every sin – no matter how small – carries a penalty. This penalty has to be paid – either in this life or in the next – before we can reach heaven.

I deliberately smash your window. You forgive me. That’s great, but I still have the obligation of fixing your window. That’s a simple example of what the Church means by “temporal punishment due to sin.” Every sin has a penalty – nobody skates. Pay now by doing voluntary penance or pay later in Purgatory. But God’s justice is inescapable. Nothing unclean shall enter heaven, and we need to be scrubbed clean before we get there, with few exceptions.

Catholicism is so perfectly logical, so symmetrical, so beautiful, so Biblical. Thank you God!

JMJ Jay
 
space ghost:
because catholics are taught about purgatory and protestants are taught there is no such place… 👍
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Since Protestant beliefs are based on a cut version of the Bible, we could expect that at least some Protestant organizations would teach the truth that Purgatory exists if Martin Luther had not taken out 7 of the OT books and parts of Esther and Daniel. His main target was Maccabees where Purgatory is clearly taught. “Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin” 2 Maccabees 12:45b.

We must remember that when ML announced his new doctrine of Sola Scriptura, he meant his shortened canon of the Scriptura, not the contents of the original Bible.

JMJ Jay
 
Katholikos said:
Purgatory is not about the forgiveness of sins, but about the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.

Protestants believe they can sin, and by simply believing they’re home free. Catholics know that every sin – no matter how small – carries a penalty. This penalty has to be paid – either in this life or in the next – before we can reach heaven.

I deliberately smash your window. You forgive me. That’s great, but I still have the obligation of fixing your window. That’s a simple example of what the Church means by “temporal punishment due to sin.” Every sin has a penalty – nobody skates. Pay now by doing voluntary penance or pay later in Purgatory. But God’s justice is inescapable. Nothing unclean shall enter heaven, and we need to be scrubbed clean before we get there, with few exceptions.

Catholicism is so perfectly logical, so symmetrical, so beautiful, so Biblical. Thank you God!

JMJ Jay
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Every unconfessed sin has a penalty. The consequences of sin is death.That is why there is no sin that will enter into the kingdom.Works do not pay the price for our sins. Jesus paid it all. PAID IN FULL. :confused:
 
Little Mary:
protestants do not believe in a lot of things taught by the Catholic church because they don’t understand it…furthermore, it’s yet another one of those unpleasant things that they’d rather not think about. Protestants would rather focus on the Resurrection and the happy party (the “feel good” religions) and not what you have to go through to get there.
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Let’s see…maybe I need to make it clear here that this is not an un-true assumption and that there is evidence to back this statement up. Take a look around these boards and read the various posts. There are many protestants right here that do not understand what The Catholic Church teaches on Mary, the saints, the real presence, purgatory, tradition, faith vs. works, and so on. The mere wording of some of the questions proves that they do not understand the teaching. Yes, there are also many protestants that might grasp the concept yet disagree, but not all of them.

Maybe I should have opened that post with “Many protestants…” or “Some protestants…” rather than inferring all protestants. I might also have included the fact that some Catholics, sadly, leave the Church for the same reason - lack of understanding. I certainly would not have been offended if someone had pointed that out to me.

Opinions are allowed on these posts. So are statements of Truth. The reputation system should not be abused becuase someone is offended by another’s opinion/statement. Such abuses should be reported.
 
…and furthermore, to say one rejects many things from the RCC because they are un-scriptural is sound evidence of one’s misunderstanding of Catholic teaching. One might say one just provided one’s self with same requested evidence.

If you are interested in the subject of the RCC and it’s role in scripture, please jump over to the thread, History of the Bible for enlightment.

Pax Christi:)
 
Purgatory is an imaginary half way place between heaven and hell, where unforgiven sin is purged away.
The Bible states clearly that Christ purged our sins on the cross.

When he had by himself PURGED OUR SINS. (Hebrews 1:3)
There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1 and John 5:24)

The purgatory was simply invented in 1439 by the Catholic church to keep people in a constant state of fear and also to recieve money from indulgences for it is known that the more money you pay, the faster the intended person will get out of purgatory.

But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. (Acts 8:20)
 
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homer:
Purgatory is an imaginary half way place between heaven and hell, where unforgiven sin is purged away.
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This thread’s already gone on long enough, but I just want to restate again that Purgatory has nothing to do with purging unforgiven sin.

JimG
 
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Shibboleth:
Oh dear… this should be fun.
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You might have to look elsewhere for fun, Shibboleth. Homer usually makes his statement and then runs, never to be heard from again. It may be that most are tired of that and will not bother to respond.

But, we’ll see…🙂
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Every unconfessed sin has a penalty. The consequences of sin is death.That is why there is no sin that will enter into the kingdom.Works do not pay the price for our sins. Jesus paid it all. PAID IN FULL. :confused:
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Every sin - confessed and unconfessed, forgiven and unforgiven --has a penalty.

My doctrine came from the Church founded by Christ and taught by the Apostles. Yours sprang full blown from your own “infallible” interpretation of the Scriptures. You’ve made yourself the authority. You’re your own pope.

Works salvation was condemned by the Catholic Church as early as the Council of Orange in 529 A.D. (a thousand years before a single Protestant existed) and again at the Council of Trent, 1545-63.

**COUNCIL OF TRENT - ON JUSTIFICATION **
**CANON I.- If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema. **

Please learn what the Catholic Church teaches before you condemn her for what she doesn’t teach.

Peace be with you, Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
 
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homer:
Purgatory is an imaginary half way place between heaven and hell, where unforgiven sin is purged away.
The Bible states clearly that Christ purged our sins on the cross.

When he had by himself PURGED OUR SINS. (Hebrews 1:3)
There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1 and John 5:24)

The purgatory was simply invented in 1439 by the Catholic church to keep people in a constant state of fear and also to recieve money from indulgences for it is known that the more money you pay, the faster the intended person will get out of purgatory.

But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. (Acts 8:20)
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Homer the ghost – our resident hit-and-run phantom – has left us another calling card on a CA thread.

He doesn’t want to dialog. He just cruises by, throws a pipe bomb through the window, and then he’s off doing malicious mischief somewhere else. But if he follows his usual pattern, he won’t be back here.

If you read this, Homer, I’m sorry to call this to your attention, but your ignorance is hanging out. 😛

JMJ Jay
 
Veronica Anne:
Um… I humbly offer to you that this WAS a “direct source”… the title of the book and the place to look up more about it.

The customer review gave a pretty good description of the contents.
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I didn’t ask for an anonymous customer review from Amazon.com I am asking for a primary source with a direct quote from CS Lewis himself. TIA
Or, see LETTERS TO MALCOM, chapter XX, pp.108-109, 1st American ed. Also, see THE GREAT DIVORCE, chapter IX, 1st American ed., pp. 63-66. When THE GREAT DIVORCE first came out, many reviewers assumed Lewis was RC, from the treatment of Purgatory, which irritiated Lewis at the time.
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And he makes a comment on the topic in ENGLISH LITERATURE IN THE SIXTEENTH CENTURY, pp. 163-164.
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Thank you 🙂 GKC for providing the source(s)-I’ll check them out.
 
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