Why do catholics leave the Catholic Church

[guanophore]

Then my friend let US pray that God finds your feelings to be of greater sinnificance than his Devine will.

I would participate in no such prayer.

Our feelings are always secondary to His “devine” will. That being said, our feelings are not outside of His will either. Through them, He draws us closer to Himself, and places within us the deep desire and yearning for His “devine” will. When we move in congruence with that yearning, we find Peace that passes all understanding.
AND with this one too

 

[PRmerger]

My understanding,per an ongoing class on the Cathecism,is there are 23 Catholic Churches(every ritual type of the apostolic churches of the catholic world can be found in the Roman Catholic Church) Orthodox is not one of them.The ones that are in communion are East Syrian(those under that heading)WestvSurian(Marionitr,Syrian,Syro-MalankarvChurch,Melekite Greek Church(both Syrian and Byzantine) Alaxandrian(CopticChruch,Ethiopian Church)ArmenianChurch,Byzantine Church(there are thirteen churches under this heading)

This does not address how you think the poster was “Wrong!” when he proclaimed that the Orthodox liturgy is the same Eucharistic feast that the Catholic church participates in.

And how he was wrong in proclaiming that we recognize the Apostolic Succession of the Orthodox churches.

 

[Jeanne_S]

This does not address how you think the poster was “Wrong!” when he proclaimed that the Orthodox liturgy is the same Eucharistic feast that the Catholic church participates in.

And how he was wrong in proclaiming that we recognize the Apostolic Succession of the Orthodox churches.

Orthodox don’t believe in papal infallibility,they also don’t believe the priest acts in persona Christi ,so they are not in Communion with the Roman Catholic Chirch.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Because,

In a nutshell, people leave because Catholicism is hard. Also faith is a gift, there is nothing we can do to “make” someone stay in the Church.

If people left Christ even while he stood in their midst, why would it be any different now?
Catholicism is difficult, spiritually, intellectually, all of it.

Well said!

 

[PRmerger]

Orthodox don’t believe in papal infallibility,they also don’t believe the priest acts in persona Christi ,so they are not in Communion with the Roman Catholic Chirch.

You are correct.

But how was the poster wrong in saying that “the Catholic Church recognizes the Apostolic Succession and the sacraments of the Orthodox as valid. So when Constantine attends His Divine Liturgy, he is participating in the same divine worship you are. And so to do I”

Please explain the error in the above statement, given that the Catechism proclaims almost the above verbatim.

 

[Jeanne_S]

You are correct.

But how was the poster wrong in saying that “the Catholic Church recognizes the Apostolic Succession and the sacraments of the Orthodox as valid. So when Constantine attends His Divine Liturgy, he is participating in the same divine worship you are. And so to do I”

Please explain the error in the above statement, given that the Catechism proclaims almost the above verbatim.

Constantine is a Byzantine Catholic,yes,in communion with thevRoman Catholic Church.I am responding to his comment re Orthodox Catholics,for the reasons I previously stated,are not in communion.How can their sacraments be valid,if they don’t believe that their priests are acting in persoa Christi,or the validity of the Papacy?

 

[PRmerger]

Constantine is a Byzantine Catholic,yes,in communion with thevRoman Catholic Church.I am responding to his comment re Orthodox Catholics,for the reasons I previously stated,are not in communion.How can their sacraments be valid,if they don’t believe that their priests are acting in persoa Christi,or the validity of the Papacy?

Your post #429 was one word: “Wrong!”, and it was in response to guanophore.

Everything that guanophore posted there was 100% correct.

If you were responding to another concept about the Orthodox Church you should have made that clear.

As it appears right now, you are objecting to guanophore’s comment. Not ConstantineTG.

 

[PJM]

=guanophore;10766753]I would participate in no such prayer.

Our feelings are always secondary to His “devine” will. That being said, our feelings are not outside of His will either. Through them, He draws us closer to Himself, and places within us the deep desire and yearning for His “devine” will. When we move in congruence with that yearning, we find Peace that passes all understanding.
AND with this one too

NEITHER would I; which was the point.

God bless you,

pat

 

[Jeanne_S]

Your post #429 was one word: “Wrong!”, and it was in response to guanophore.

Everything that guanophore posted there was 100% correct.

If you were responding to another concept about the Orthodox Church you should have made that clear.

As it appears right now, you are objecting to guanophore’s comment. Not ConstantineTG.

Oops!Wrong poster.Regardless,not everything guanophere stated was correct. The Orthodox are not n communion with RCC,again for the reasons I previously stated.Not sure where the confusion lies in what I posted

 

[Nicea325]

Why do and are catholics leaving the Church and possibily their salvation. Heb. 6:4-8

Continued Blessings,

Pat

One easy answer: Free-will.

 

[PRmerger]

Oops!Wrong poster.Regardless,not everything guanophere stated was correct. The Orthodox are not n communion with RCC,again for the reasons I previously stated.Not sure where the confusion lies in what I posted

I am not confused.

You stated that guanophore was “Wrong!”.

Yet, he was 100% correct in his post that you responded to. We do recognize Apostolic Succession in the Orthodox, and they celebrate the same Liturgy that we do–we are both of us, Orthodox and Catholic, partaking of the Lamb’s Supper at our Liturgies.

That is 100% correct.

No one has posited that the Orthodox are in communion with the RCC.

What you are doing is similar to a Christian saying, “Muslims are monotheists!” and you responding, “Wrong!” and when you are asked to ask why you say this you state, “Because Muslims don’t believe Jesus is divine!”.

Your objection, while a true statement, has nothing to do with the original premise: Muslims are indeed monotheists.

Similarly, the Orthodox do have valid Apostolic Succession and a valid liturgy.

You see that now, right?

That they are not in communion with Rome is true, but no one has stated that they are.

 

[Jeanne_S]

I am not confused.

You stated that guanophore was “Wrong!”.

Yet, he was 100% correct in his post that you responded to. We do recognize Apostolic Succession in the Orthodox, and they celebrate the same Liturgy that we do–we are both of us, Orthodox and Catholic, partaking of the Lamb’s Supper at our Liturgies.

That is 100% correct.

No one has posited that the Orthodox are in communion with the RCC.

What you are doing is similar to a Christian saying, “Muslims are monotheists!” and you responding, “Wrong!” and when you are asked to ask why you say this you state, “Because Muslims don’t believe Jesus is divine!”.

Your objection, while a true statement, has nothing to do with the original premise: Muslims are indeed monotheists.

Similarly, the Orthodox do have valid Apostolic Succession and a valid liturgy.

You see that now, right?

That they are not in communion with Rome is true, but no one has stated that they are.

Valid,in the same sense as the holy sacrifice of the Mass as in the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[PRmerger]

Valid,in the same sense as the holy sacrifice of the Mass as in the Roman Catholic Church?

Yep. It’s the same Mass. Same sacrifice. Same sacrament.

That’s what the Catechism says.

And that’s why you can attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy, if there were no Catholic Mass nearby.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Yep. It’s the same Mass. Same sacrifice. Same sacrament.

That’s what the Catechism says.

And that’s why you can attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy, if there were no Catholic Mass nearby.

That isn’t my understanding.I am not trying to be obstinate,however ,unless I misunderstood the explaination given by the instructor of the"FourPillars" study on the Chatecism.which I am currently taking,your statement isn’t correct. I will follow up on this after my class this Thursday after clarification from the instructor.

 

[PRmerger]

That isn’t my understanding.I am not trying to be obstinate,however ,unless I misunderstood the explaination given by the instructor of the"FourPillars" study on the Chatecism.which I am currently taking,your statement isn’t correct. I will follow up on this after my class this Thursday after clarification from the instructor.

You believe that you were being told that the Orthodox Mass (or “Divine Liturgy” as they refer to it) is not valid?

If so, how do you explain the teaching in the Catechism which states that it is?

 

[Southy82]

I’m going to try and provide some (name removed by moderator)ut on this as a young Catholic (early 20s) who has been involved in a struggle to keep faith.

This might not be saying much, but I consider myself a more informed Catholic than most, and as such a lot of my struggles with the faith have been teaching based rather than reasons such as people “feeling” better in a protestant faith or something.

Let me just give you a run down of teachings that have caused me great distress at one time or another or even still today:

• Immaculate conception
• Mary as Mediatrix
• Papal infallibility
• Inerrancy of scripture
• Reconciling old testament violence with Catholic teaching on killing
• Reconciling Vatican II with pre Vatican II formulations of teachings especially “no salvation outside the Church”
• Trying to reconcile the love of God with Hell.

Additionally, it being a mortal sin to not fast on Ash Wednesday or Good Friday or not abstain from meat on the appointed days for those obliged have caused me great distress. I just don’t understand why such a high penalty is attached to it. I don’t think I could ever not believe in God, and my crises of faith have usually been very Catholic specific and to be quite honest I feel I have not received great answers when it comes to these issues that trouble me.

On a related note, I also suffer from anxiety issues, and as such I suffer from scrupulosity which has associated negative emotions with spirituality. I want to pray more and read scripture more, but it seems the more time I spend devoting myself to such things, the more my scrupulosity bothers me. It’s so hard for me to see God as a loving father and just let go and trust Him when I’m reminded of things like certain old testament acts of violence, and damnation for a single mortal sin.

So taking into consideration the things I’ve said, I can see how someone having doubts over some of these things might refuse to adhere to the Church’s teaching and leave the Church.

I was a convert to Catholicism and had been raised as a Freewill Baptist. It was my feeling too that God was only wrathful. It was hard for me to ever think of God as my loving father, too. It wasn’t until years after I converted, that my wife told me something so simple, yet it opened my eyes. She said, “Ya know, it’s ok to be mad at God. You can yell at him, too.” Once I realized that, I could see God as my loving Father. He suddenly became approachable from my perspective. Weird, huh?

As for the list of things you have a hard time coming to terms with, I would say ask God for faith and a chance to be more obedient. Remember, God works in mysterious ways. There are things we will never understand. There are things that cannot be understood because of our limitations. Just believe because you know God doesn’t lie to you and because you wish to be obedient. It’s what worked for me. Maybe it will for you, too.

 

[ConstantineTG]

And that’s why you can attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy, if there were no Catholic Mass nearby.

I haven’t developed amnesia since conversion to Orthodoxy so I still remember my RC Catechism pretty well.

If there is no Catholic Liturgy within reasonable distance, the obligation to attend Sunday Liturgy is dispensed. So as a Roman Catholic, you are not required to go to an Orthodox Divine Liturgy.

 

[PRmerger]

I haven’t developed amnesia since conversion to Orthodoxy so I still remember my RC Catechism pretty well.

If there is no Catholic Liturgy within reasonable distance, the obligation to attend Sunday Liturgy is dispensed. So as a Roman Catholic, you are not required to go to an Orthodox Divine Liturgy.

It is the same divine worship, both Orthodox and Catholic.

 

[GraceUnderFire]

Disobedience.

 

[guanophore]

Orthodox don’t believe in papal infallibility,they also don’t believe the priest acts in persona Christi ,so they are not in Communion with the Roman Catholic Chirch.

There are many issues that are behind the current schism. I am curious if you have any evidence to show that they “don’t believe the priest acts in persona Christi”. I have never heard this about the Orthodox, and it seems to me that their sacraments would not be considered valid by the CC if this were the case.

 Constantine is a Byzantine Catholic,yes,in communion with thevRoman Catholic Church.

No, he is not. He is a convert to Orthodoxy. His personal convictions and conscience would not allow him to remain in communion with the Bishop of Rome.

I am responding to his comment re Orthodox Catholics,for the reasons I previously stated,are not in communion.How can their sacraments be valid,if they don’t believe that their priests are acting in persoa Christi,or the validity of the Papacy?

I agree, and since the CC considers their sacraments valid, it seems that they do believe this. They would call it by another name, though, because that terminology is Latin.

Oops!Wrong poster.Regardless,not everything guanophere stated was correct. The Orthodox are not n communion with RCC,again for the reasons I previously stated.Not sure where the confusion lies in what I posted

I never claimed that they were.

The confusion appears to be in your mind, since you are stating you are Catholic, yet rejecting what is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Valid,in the same sense as the holy sacrifice of the Mass as in the Roman Catholic Church?

Absolutely.

That isn’t my understanding.

Clearly not.

I am not trying to be obstinate,however ,unless I misunderstood the explaination given by the instructor of the"FourPillars" study on the Chatecism.which I am currently taking,your statement isn’t correct. I will follow up on this after my class this Thursday after clarification from the instructor.

The Orthodox also share the same four pillars with us. We were in unity for the first millenia until the Great Schism in 1054.

At that point, the Orthdox felt that the Roman Catholics left the One True Faith, which they believe they have preserved without error.

Be sure to collect some sources to back up your assertions, especially if you are going to so bluntly tell other forum members they are “wrong!”.