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Doxiemom
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Janet, I was making a bit of a joke. Can’t be serious all the time. Should have added a smiley, huh?
Since Mass is structured around the remembrance of the Last Supper, has three Scripture reading, the Lord’s prayer, the Gloria. the Creed is really why i think Mass is Christ centered.
Is everyone who is there Chrsit centered. Yes and no. Are some lukewarm/ yes and no. Are some way too much into Mary? most yes and no.
There are a lot of folks here who are very well educated and can sput off latin with the best of them. Does that make them more Chrsit centered? it can and it may not.
There is as much of a danger in thinking that all this knowledge of church history, all this exactness of following all the rules, as there is in adopting a once saved always saved argument because that leads to what is sometimes called 'greasy grace".
Both catholics and non-catholics anrsometimes so busy being proud of who they are not that forget Who they are supposed to love and know and worship rather than the denomination or the rule book.
Each of is responsible of keeping Christ centered in our lifes. Being closed minded doesn’t help.
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ccolley2
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I think you mean 1st and 2nd Maccabees…The New Testament cannon that Protestants have is the same 27 books of the Bible that we have. It is their Old Testament Cannon that is different. They have 7 less books because they use the Palestinian Cannon instead of the Septuagint cannon. The Palestinian cannon was not set until after the death of Jesus. The Septuagint was translated immediately after the diaspora from the Hebrew to Greek.The First and Second Corinthians, they clearly define that the early catholics believed in the true presence of the Eucharist. Especially in 2 Corinthians Chapter… 10 I think, verse 26, I’m not sure, and the nearest bible is a hole 30ft away.(I need a servant
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This was some 200-300 Years BEFORE the birth of Christ. So it was the translation that the Jews were using. By the time the Jews at Jamnia decided on a cannon in 130 (well after the death of Jesus). The Early Christians were already using the Septuagint so they just ignored the Palestinian version and continued using the one they already had.
So the Catholic version of the OT is the version that Jesus and the early church used. Which version would you rather use?
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Holly3278
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We believe that we receive Jesus Christ at every single Mass. The consecration of the Eucharist is one of the most important parts of the Mass and we believe that the Eucharist is Jesus. Yeah, we minimize Jesus alright! 
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nsper7
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I must say I find your posts confusing (are you Catholic or Protestant, you seem to advocate both positions), but then I saw your profile and you describe yourself in terms of religion as: one foot in catholicism the other in the evangelic church.
I find that a most disturbing statement. If you believe that the Catholic Church is the True Church, then how can you have any part with an ecclesial community that lacks valid Holy Orders and Apostolic Succession and teaches error and heterodoxy? If you deny that the Catholic Church is the True Church, then how can you claim to have a foot in Catholicism?
I hope you will understand that bluntness, but part of it is because the Catholic Church has more than enough problems already with people who say they are Catholic, but then make heterodox statements. This confuses Catholics and Non-Catholics and such confusion and error is good for no one.
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Doxiemom
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I am sorry if it disturbs you. Really. But have no fear for my soul. As i have no fear for your soul, my friend. It is what that is in your heart that matters. My seeking as full a knowledge that i can comprehend and match according to Scripture is all I seek.
I accept apostolic succession because this office is necessary for the Eucharist which I do believe is the True Body and Blood. It makes me so sad and disturbs me that so many catholics just walk by the cup as if it doesn’t really count. What an insult to Him.
I do not accept the amillennial view of the end of time. I believe in a pre-tribulation and a rapture. It is plain in Scriptures that is what is to happen.
There will be Anti-christ and a false prophet. And 7 years of horror. I find it so sad and disturbing that this mighty church has done so little to prepare it followers for what is to come. They are the 10 virgins who have lamps but no oil. I have great hope though that those who are not taken up will be able to remain strong and never go over to anti-christ. Should they be beheaded, they will be amongst those martyrs under the altar of God calling out for vengeance of their innocent blood.
I think that my church is riddled with liberation doctrine, replacement doctrine, and a cultish maryism.
It values writings too much and some doubt that Scripture is the absolute Truth given by God Himself. genesis isn’t really real and Revelation has nothing to do with Israel. God, that is so wrong. It elelvates man’s writings and de-values God’s Written Word.
So, for real understanding of Scripture I am forced to look beyond the priests and the catechism. But if I want the best of the best, Holy Eucharist, I look to my cradle church and Mass.
So in that sense the catholic church has failed me. You could say i failed it. Sometimes i fail Jesus. But then, Scripture has told me to get my self back up and try again. There is no number of times that failure cannot be forgiven.
I do not expect you to understand. I mean no disrespect for those who choose to remain within the (for lack of a better word) rigidness of the laws and teachings of the Catholic church. There is a disipline about those here that is to be admired and God will reward you.
But God will never be able to call me lukewarm and spue me from His mouth. That is a given.
I accept apostolic succession because this office is necessary for the Eucharist which I do believe is the True Body and Blood. It makes me so sad and disturbs me that so many catholics just walk by the cup as if it doesn’t really count. What an insult to Him.
I do not accept the amillennial view of the end of time. I believe in a pre-tribulation and a rapture. It is plain in Scriptures that is what is to happen.
There will be Anti-christ and a false prophet. And 7 years of horror. I find it so sad and disturbing that this mighty church has done so little to prepare it followers for what is to come. They are the 10 virgins who have lamps but no oil. I have great hope though that those who are not taken up will be able to remain strong and never go over to anti-christ. Should they be beheaded, they will be amongst those martyrs under the altar of God calling out for vengeance of their innocent blood.
I think that my church is riddled with liberation doctrine, replacement doctrine, and a cultish maryism.
It values writings too much and some doubt that Scripture is the absolute Truth given by God Himself. genesis isn’t really real and Revelation has nothing to do with Israel. God, that is so wrong. It elelvates man’s writings and de-values God’s Written Word.
So, for real understanding of Scripture I am forced to look beyond the priests and the catechism. But if I want the best of the best, Holy Eucharist, I look to my cradle church and Mass.
So in that sense the catholic church has failed me. You could say i failed it. Sometimes i fail Jesus. But then, Scripture has told me to get my self back up and try again. There is no number of times that failure cannot be forgiven.
I do not expect you to understand. I mean no disrespect for those who choose to remain within the (for lack of a better word) rigidness of the laws and teachings of the Catholic church. There is a disipline about those here that is to be admired and God will reward you.
But God will never be able to call me lukewarm and spue me from His mouth. That is a given.
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nsper7
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I never said I had fear for your soul. Your final disposition (Heaven directly, Heaven with a detour through Purgatory or Hell) is up to God.
Catholic doctrine states that one receives the fullness of the Body and Blood under only one species if they so choose. The position you just advocated borders on the Hussite heresy of the 15th Century.
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Traditional_Ang
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YoungSaint:The First and Second Corinthians, they clearly define that the early catholics believed in the true presence of the Eucharist. Especially in 2 Corinthians Chapter… 10 I think, verse 26, I’m not sure, and the nearest bible is a hole 30ft away.
What you need is to put some Bible Helps in your computer so you can put them in a Tab/Window when needed…
The Scriptures you need from 1st Corinthians are:
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I speak as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. Consider the people of Israel: are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. **You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he?*
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But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. When you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper that you eat. For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the Church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.* - For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that* the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread*, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is broken for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.*
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Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.* - So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another — if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home — so that when you come together it will not be for judgment. About the other things I will give directions when I come.*
1 Corinthians 11:17-34 ESV
New American Bible - Vatican Copy (has Concordance)
New Jerusalem Bible - Catholic Online
Douay-Rheims Bible - DRBO.ORG (has search help)
Revised Standard Version - Univ. of Mich. (Has Search Helps)
Bible Gateway - Protestant - 35 Translations (Excellent Search Helps)
Scripture4All - Greek Interlinear N.T. (requires Adobe Reader)
StudyLight - Includes Greek & Hebrew Interlinears
If you Save/Bookmark these into your Browser, you won’t need to keep your Bible by your computer, because it’ll be as if you had a couple of Bibles in your computer. You’ll also find it much easier to find Scriptures such as the ones I quoted above.
In fact, I had a much more difficult time writing this than I did finding and doing the copy-paste on the Scriptures…
Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael
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dianaiad
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Because it broke the rules, Janet. The OP was extremely disrespectful of the Catholic faith and those who believe in it.
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dianaiad
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One of the loveliest True Scott fallacies I have ever come across, managing to grab both sides of the coin.
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4EverHis
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I don’t understand how believing in the Church “minimizes” Christ… He gave us the Church and He works through it… when we honour the Church and obey its teachings, we are glorifying Him. When we’re being disobedient we’re going against Christ… as He told Saul (later St Paul 
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youngsaint
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Thanks for clarifying, I would double check, but that bible still hasn’t moved
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Church_Militant
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once there was an understanding that the general public could, in fact, understand and interpret the readings. The Church hierarchy then took up the role of teacher, and counselor.
I personally am involved in bible study at my parish in three different groups.Sorry, but that is dead wrong. Here’s some articles about that from the CA online library.
CATHOLICS AND THE BIBLE (This Rock: September 1997)
PART II. ARE CATHOLICS ALLOWED TO READ THE BIBLE ? (This Rock …
That last article predates Vatican II by about 40 years. Why ever would anyone believe that the Church forbid the reading of the Bible, when in fact they attach a plenary indulgence to it?
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Church_Militant
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I didn’t see the OP as offensive or in violation of any rules. Her tone is a bit snarky, but 
. They have not been banned so it appears that Rachel Malloy (the NCR Mod) saw nothing egregious about it, so it’s all good IMO.
The fact is that it expressed a mistaken view of our most holy faith and gave us all a chance to step up and correct that.
That she hasn’t returned to the thread to respond is a bit weird, but regardless, every lurker that sees this and reads it will see the depth of her error, and I believe that that is a good thing.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
. They have not been banned so it appears that Rachel Malloy (the NCR Mod) saw nothing egregious about it, so it’s all good IMO.The fact is that it expressed a mistaken view of our most holy faith and gave us all a chance to step up and correct that.
That she hasn’t returned to the thread to respond is a bit weird, but regardless, every lurker that sees this and reads it will see the depth of her error, and I believe that that is a good thing.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
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ccolley2
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My thoughts exactly!I didn’t see the OP as offensive or in violation of any rules. Her tone is a bit snarky, but
The fact is that it expressed a mistaken view of our most holy faith and gave us all a chance to step up and correct that.
That she hasn’t returned to the thread to respond is a bit weird, but regardless, every lurker that sees this and reads it will see the depth of her error, and I believe that that is a good thing.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
:thumbsup:Good post.
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nsper7
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A lot of Protestants here behave like guerrillas. They come in and take potshots at the True faith and then retreat because they must know they cannot hope to stand against the brunt of a Catholic intellectual assault.
SMACK DOWN THE PROTESTANTS…intellectually and theologically of course.
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Janet1983
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I have a feeling that you’re not supporting your own argument with that… Talking about going into a friendly and Christian discussion? Find the “guerrillas” and “smack” them “down” intellectually? And I figured you’d try to listen, make sense of what is being said, state your position and always keep the possibility open to agree once in a while… maybe I was mistaken to assume something like that… But you do agree with the “guerrillas” that Jesus Christ is Lord, do you?
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gurneyhalleck1
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Well-stated, Janet. It’s amazing how honest people in here are getting, “Smack down” Protestants? Wow, the truth comes out. Hulk Hogan hyperbole at its best! I keep seeing people with “Catholic fanatic” and “Hardcore, educated, on-fire Catholic” etc. in their descriptions. It’s funny how the catechism calls Protestants our brothers and sisters in Christ. Whether seperated or not, differences notwithstanding, does God want an intellectual smack-down of siblings?
I harken back to the statements by our Lord, “if they are not against us, they are for us” and “where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I.” I guess those words don’t mean much in a smack-down tag-team blastathon event
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nsper7
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If you couldn’t tell, I was being quite facetious on that last note. You’ll notice I talked about giving an intellectual and theological (not physical) smack-down. In terms of an ‘intellectual smack-down of siblings’, read St. Paul’s Letter to the Galatians. He certainly gives the Galatian Judaizers a theological smack-down to use my turn of phrase.Well-stated, Janet. It’s amazing how honest people in here are getting, “Smack down” Protestants? Wow, the truth comes out. Hulk Hogan hyperbole at its best! I keep seeing people with “Catholic fanatic” and “Hardcore, educated, on-fire Catholic” etc. in their descriptions. It’s funny how the catechism calls Protestants our brothers and sisters in Christ. Whether seperated or not, differences notwithstanding, does God want an intellectual smack-down of siblings?
I harken back to the statements by our Lord, “if they are not against us, they are for us” and “where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I.” I guess those words don’t mean much in a smack-down tag-team blastathon event
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ae1234
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Good answers, some of you more so than others, of course, but in general, very good. Thanks for taking time. I enjoyed reading your responses.
ae123
ae123
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