Why do Catholics pray to Saints........

[rinnie]

I’ve already addressed all of this above, please see the link as well.

The Bible states that there is only one mediator between God and man, who is Jesus Christ. And yet when one is asked to pray for someone else, they are acting as an intercessor/mediator. The very act of praying for someone else is intercession, so you are creating an artificial division here.

I think the problem that he has TheosisM is he does not understand what intercessor is. To intercede is pray on behalf of someone. So we mediate in the sense of going with that person and praying for them. But we do not mediate in the sense to settle anything the way God does.

But he does not understand to be a intercessor is not a mediator in the way Christ is.

What he does not understand that while our prayers are powerful and can help it is still the will of God, what is to come out of the situation. All our prayers really do, and the prayers of the Saints do is to not change the will of God, for no one can do that. But to pray fo the person in need to have the extra GRACE to accept the will of God. And thats makes a real big difference in how a person can cope with a situation.

All the Saints do is ask God to give us a Special Grace to deal with whatever is comming our way. And we are guaranteed that the Grace that they ask for is granted. God will give that Grace if it is asked for. But we still must on our behalf be willing to accept it. And if we do that Grace is all that is needed in the first place. That is the Gift we get from the Blessed Mother, St Joseph etc. And until anyone really understands that, they will really never understand the reality of prayer. Not that God will not grant it to us himself he always gives us grace, but this is extra. It has to be or there would be no power in prayer for eacthother. And we know there is power in prayer because when we pray for one another we are imitating Christ. When he said to Peter I have prayed for you. Sure Peter could have prayed for himself. But CHrists prayers made him receive even more grace. And to be a Saint is to be Christlike!

You will hear people say well I don’t want they extra grace. Well fine have it your way. But we as Catholic’s understand how much easier life is to cope with, and our problems are to cope with when the extra grace given to us from the prayers of the Saints can do.

 

[rinnie]

Zerinus. What you do not understand we as RC do not believe in death. We believe in eternal life. We believe that Jesus Christ took away death. So until you understand the meaning of the resurrection of CHrist and what it means, you will never understand eternal life.

 

[TheosisM]

I think the problem that he has TheosisM is he does not understand what intercessor is. To intercede is pray on behalf of someone. So we mediate in the sense of going with that person and praying for them. But we do not mediate in the sense to settle anything the way God does.

But he does not understand to be a intercessor is not a mediator in the way Christ is.

What he does not understand that while our prayers are powerful and can help it is still the will of God, what is to come out of the situation. All our prayers really do, and the prayers of the Saints do is to not change the will of God, for no one can do that. But to pray fo the person in need to have the extra GRACE to accept the will of God. And thats makes a real big difference in how a person can cope with a situation.

All the Saints do is ask God to give us a Special Grace to deal with whatever is comming our way. And we are guaranteed that the Grace that they ask for is granted. God will give that Grace if it is asked for. But we still must on our behalf be willing to accept it. And if we do that Grace is all that is needed in the first place. That is the Gift we get from the Blessed Mother, St Joseph etc. And until anyone really understands that, they will really never understand the reality of prayer. Not that God will not grant it to us himself he always gives us grace, but this is extra. It has to be or there would be no power in prayer for eacthother. And we know there is power in prayer because when we pray for one another we are imitating Christ. When he said to Peter I have prayed for you. Sure Peter could have prayed for himself. But CHrists prayers made him receive even more grace. And to be a Saint is to be Christlike!

You will hear people say well I don’t want they extra grace. Well fine have it your way. But we as Catholic’s understand how much easier life is to cope with, and our problems are to cope with when the extra grace given to us from the prayers of the Saints can do.

I agree. If asking for the intercession of the Heavenly saints is wrong because it detracts from Christ’s role as the only mediator, then it is also wrong to ask for the intercession of earthly saints. Unless we understand Christ’s role as mediator and what it means to intercede. I also find that theosis (partaking of the divine nature) is also relevant to this.

 

[wmscott]

I agree. If asking for the intercession of the Heavenly saints is wrong because it detracts from Christ’s role as the only mediator, then it is also wrong to ask for the intercession of earthly saints. Unless we understand Christ’s role as mediator and what it means to intercede. I also find that theosis (partaking of the divine nature) is also relevant to this.

I am not sure if anyone has looked at this angle, however if intercessory prayers are unbiblical and unnecessary, then as a Church community why even come together to worship and pray? We can all just take our Bibles and stay home and pray and do as we like. Just a thought. Peace.

 

[rinnie]

I am not sure if anyone has looked at this angle, however if intercessory prayers are unbiblical and unnecessary, then as a Church community why even come together to worship and pray? We can all just take our Bibles and stay home and pray and do as we like. Just a thought. Peace.

Amen! We know that to pray for someone is not only biblical it was exercised by Christ himself. I have alot more understanding of the Protestants not understanding our faith. And any of us who truly study the CC understand that the Church is indeed a Mystery.

We as Catholics know that we ourself have not quite grasp the understanding of our faith until it is revealed to us not only from the Church and scripture but by the grace of God himself. So I myself have learned to have a little more patience for those who DOG our faith, because as Jesus himself said Forgive them Father they know not what they do.

We can only reveal what has been revealed to us by the Church and Christ himself and pray that God can give us the grace to help one another. But we must pray for them to receive that Grace from God also. Thats the best we can do.

 

[wmscott]

Amen! We know that to pray for someone is not only biblical it was exercised by Christ himself. I have alot more understanding of the Protestants not understanding our faith. And any of us who truly study the CC understand that the Church is indeed a Mystery.

We as Catholics know that we ourself have not quite grasp the understanding of our faith until it is revealed to us not only from the Church and scripture but by the grace of God himself. So I myself have learned to have a little more patience for those who DOG our faith, because as Jesus himself said Forgive them Father they know not what they do.

We can only reveal what has been revealed to us by the Church and Christ himself and pray that God can give us the grace to help one another. But we must pray for them to receive that Grace from God also. Thats the best we can do.

It has challenged me to do some research and learn more of what the Catholic Church teaches. Because of questions, challenges, and bashing, I have learned things in the areas of OSAS, SS, and SF, which I did not know before. Because of the questions, challenges, and bashing, my learning and then responding with the truth about the Beautiful Catholic Faith have done two things in my mind.

One - it has dispelled anti-Catholic falsehoods, for those who are intellectually honest enough to accept the truth. Those who are not, but are inflammatory and attack on every issue regardless of the truth, are actually an example to those who are on the sidelines observing and see the bigotry towards another Christian faith. I am not saying that those who are intellectually honest agree with the Catholic position, but they do respect the fact that it is the Catholics faith and right to believe and worship that way. There are no judgments or denigration perpetuated. However, there are “SOME”, who continue to attack, challenge, and bash, after the Catholic position is stated. They are not here for any honest discussion. They are here to tell us Catholics just how wrong Catholicism is according to the authority of (fill in the name) and their Bible. They do not want to know nor do the care to know what the truths are about Catholicism, it is attack, challenge, and bash.

Two – When dispelling anti-Catholic falsehoods or answering honest questions about our Beautiful Catholic Faith, you never know when or where a seed may be planted. That seed may spring forth in someone a new faith, or a return to God no matter the religious affiliation. We have to trust in God and put out there the truth the he would want us to perpetuate.

As a note, there are some Protestants here that do respect the Catholic faith and who will defend against ignorance to get the truth out there, no matter what side of the religious divide it falls on.

Peace.

 

[aspirant]

The catholic church has never to my knowledge claimed that we are all saints.

It’s all over the Bible and the Catechism. From the latter: “The communion of saints is the Church.”

 

[aspirant]

Is there a scriptural basis for this?

Article previously posted.

Also, when Catholics pray to saints, they don’t just ask them to “pray” for them; they appeal directly for their intercession

Intercession = “prayer, petition, or entreaty in favor of another.” So appeal for intercession = asking for prayer.

whereas the Bible says that there is only one intercessor between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

The word you’re looking for is “mediator.” Read the passage in context:

I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle ( I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

 

[wmscott]

Article previously posted.

Intercession = “prayer, petition, or entreaty in favor of another.” So appeal for intercession = asking for prayer.

The word you’re looking for is “mediator.” Read the passage in context:

Context is everything isnt it? Peace

 

[Catholic_to_LDS]

ok…so how does the rosary fit in to all this or is it something completly different? My mom said that when she would light a candle at the church, she had to pay money to do so…why? And what about those candles I see in Wal-Mart with saints on them???

Questions are popping out of mind like pop-corn!!!

 

[choy]

ok…so how does the rosary fit in to all this or is it something completly different? My mom said that when she would light a candle at the church, she had to pay money to do so…why? And what about those candles I see in Wal-Mart with saints on them???

Questions are popping out of mind like pop-corn!!!

well, the candles aren’t free to begin with
the money goes to purchasing the candle and the upkeep of the area where the candles are lit. the candles won’t clean up themselves so you have to hire someone to do that

the rosary is for meditation. the mysteries reflect the life of Jesus, from Annunciation to Birth to Suffering and Death to Ressurection to Ascension and to placing Mary as the Queen of Heaven and Earth

 

[wmscott]

View attachment 7276

ok…so how does the rosary fit in to all this or is it something completly different? My mom said that when she would light a candle at the church, she had to pay money to do so…why? And what about those candles I see in Wal-Mart with saints on them???

Questions are popping out of mind like pop-corn!!!

It is a donation for the lighting of a candle, not mandatory, but they need to be replenished somehow at an expense to someone. The Rosary is an intercessory type prayer. As for the rosary, see the attached PDF

 

[choy]

Is there a scriptural basis for this? Asking a dead person to pray for you is a different thing from asking a living person to pray for you. There are scriptural examples of asking a living person to pray for you; but none that I know of for asking a dead person to pray for you. Also, when Catholics pray to saints, they don’t just ask them to “pray” for them; they appeal directly for their intercession; as shown in this quote form the opening message to the Catechism:

At the conclusion of this document presenting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I beseech the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Incarnate Word and Mother of the Church, to support with her powerful intercession the catechetical work of the entire Church on every level, at this time when she is called to a new effort of evangelization. …

Given 11 October 1992, the thirtieth anniversary of the opening of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, in the fourteenth year of my Pontificate.

Pope John Paul II

whereas the Bible says that there is only one intercessor between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

thats the thing, people in heaven aren’t dead. they are alive

so we’re not asking prayers from the dead. in fact, Catholics are not allowed to ask dead relatives to pray for them, because we don’t know if they are in heaven or not. but those revealed by God to be in heaven, those canonized to be saints, we know they are in heaven so we know they live forever in heaven, therefore we can ask from them their prayers for us on earth

 

[TheosisM]

ok…so how does the rosary fit in to all this or is it something completly different? My mom said that when she would light a candle at the church, she had to pay money to do so…why? And what about those candles I see in Wal-Mart with saints on them???

Questions are popping out of mind like pop-corn!!!

The rosary is somewhat related. The rosary is a meditation. One says certain prayers (such as the Lord’s Prayer, Glory Be, Oh My Jesus, and the Hail Mary) while meditating on various events in the lives of Jesus and Mary. These events are called “mysteries”, and they include: the annunciation, the nativity, the baptism of Jesus, the crucifixion, the resurrection, the ascension, the assumption of Mary, etc.

Many if not most churches ask for a donation for the candle, to pay for the cost of it. However, no one will stop you from lighting a candle if you don’t have any money. I have done this a number of times when I simply didn’t have any change on me. I would then donate a little more the next time I went to church. I’ve paid between 25 and 75 cents for a candle, depending on the size of the candle. Again, if you don’t have money, it’s still okay.

I know about the candles you’re talking about in Walmart and other places, but I personally don’t use those. I frequently see them associated with Mexican-Catholic traditions, especially those surrounding Mary’s appearance in Guadalupe. I’m not really sure of their origin.

 

[rinnie]

It has challenged me to do some research and learn more of what the Catholic Church teaches. Because of questions, challenges, and bashing, I have learned things in the areas of OSAS, SS, and SF, which I did not know before. Because of the questions, challenges, and bashing, my learning and then responding with the truth about the Beautiful Catholic Faith have done two things in my mind.

One - it has dispelled anti-Catholic falsehoods, for those who are intellectually honest enough to accept the truth. Those who are not, but are inflammatory and attack on every issue regardless of the truth, are actually an example to those who are on the sidelines observing and see the bigotry towards another Christian faith. I am not saying that those who are intellectually honest agree with the Catholic position, but they do respect the fact that it is the Catholics faith and right to believe and worship that way. There are no judgments or denigration perpetuated. However, there are “SOME”, who continue to attack, challenge, and bash, after the Catholic position is stated. They are not here for any honest discussion. They are here to tell us Catholics just how wrong Catholicism is according to the authority of (fill in the name) and their Bible. They do not want to know nor do the care to know what the truths are about Catholicism, it is attack, challenge, and bash.

Two – When dispelling anti-Catholic falsehoods or answering honest questions about our Beautiful Catholic Faith, you never know when or where a seed may be planted. That seed may spring forth in someone a new faith, or a return to God no matter the religious affiliation. We have to trust in God and put out there the truth the he would want us to perpetuate.

As a note, there are some Protestants here that do respect the Catholic faith and who will defend against ignorance to get the truth out there, no matter what side of the religious divide it falls on.

Peace.

WOW:bighanky::bighanky: HAPPY TEARS HAPPY TEARS. THANK-YOU!

 

[rinnie]

View attachment 7276

It is a donation for the lighting of a candle, not mandatory, but they need to be replenished somehow at an expense to someone. The Rosary is an intercessory type prayer. As for the rosary, see the attached PDF

AMEN. Just because we are Catholic does not mean we do not have expenses just like everyone else.

By the way I am sure you know, but to others you do not have to light a candle to say the Rosary. THE ROSARY IS FREE!

 

[why_me]

Oh LOL, this thread has nothing to do with Mormonism, stop derailing.

The Catholic Church has always called members of the Church “saints”, evidenced by its use of the Apostles Creed and belief in the “communion of the saints”. The same goes for the Orthodox Church. We don’t need to put “saints” in our church name, or explicitly refer to each other as saints for it to be true. The fact is that our belief in intercession, whether on earth or in Heaven, is based on our belief that members of the Church are saints, and one does not cease being a saint or being a member of the Church when they die.

I am afraid that there is a little confusion among catholics about just what a saint is. For example saint therese stated:

Therese continued to worry about how she could achieve holiness in the life she led. She didn’t want to just be good, she wanted to be a saint. She thought there must be a way for people living hidden, little lives like hers. " I have always wanted to become a saint. Unfortunately when I have compared myself with the saints, I have always found that there is the same difference between the saints and me as there is between a mountain whose summit is lost in the clouds and a humble grain of sand trodden underfoot by passers-by. Instead of being discouraged, I told myself: God would not make me wish for something impossible and so, in spite of my littleness, I can aim at being a saint. It is impossible for me to grow bigger, so I put up with myself as I am, with all my countless faults. But I will look for some means of going to heaven by a little way which is very short and very straight, a little way that is quite new.

catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=105

I understant that her wish to be a saint was not a member of the church of christ on earth but rather to be a saint along with the saints of heaven. I said earlier that catholics attempt to emulate the saints through acts of holiness. But I have never known the catholic church refer to average members of the catholic church as saints. Certainly saint therese saw sainthood a little differently than you.

 

[rinnie]

ok…so how does the rosary fit in to all this or is it something completly different? My mom said that when she would light a candle at the church, she had to pay money to do so…why? And what about those candles I see in Wal-Mart with saints on them???

Questions are popping out of mind like pop-corn!!!

p.s When we light a candle for someone we can pray any Prayer we want. The candle is just a symbol of GOds living light. As we are making that light we are praying for that light to enter the persons soul. GOD LIVING LIGHT and take away the darkness, pain etc.

You know where there is light (JESUS) no evil will enter (darkness) evil the devil!

 

[TheosisM]

I am afraid that there is a little confusion among catholics about just what a saint is. For example saint therese stated:

Therese continued to worry about how she could achieve holiness in the life she led. She didn’t want to just be good, she wanted to be a saint. She thought there must be a way for people living hidden, little lives like hers. " I have always wanted to become a saint. Unfortunately when I have compared myself with the saints, I have always found that there is the same difference between the saints and me as there is between a mountain whose summit is lost in the clouds and a humble grain of sand trodden underfoot by passers-by. Instead of being discouraged, I told myself: God would not make me wish for something impossible and so, in spite of my littleness, I can aim at being a saint. It is impossible for me to grow bigger, so I put up with myself as I am, with all my countless faults. But I will look for some means of going to heaven by a little way which is very short and very straight, a little way that is quite new.

catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=105

I understant that her wish to be a saint was not a member of the church of christ on earth but rather to be a saint along with the saints of heaven. I said earlier that catholics attempt to emulate the saints through acts of holiness. But I have never known the catholic church refer to average members of the catholic church as saints. Certainly saint therese saw sainthood a little differently than you.

No, she views it the same way I do. Please read my first post in this thread, where I state ““Canonized saints” (who are those that are typically referred to as “saints”) are those that the Church believes should be known by everyone, for various reasons.”

As others have already stated in this thread, the Catholic belief is that the earthly members of the Church and the Heavenly members are all saints, hence the “communion of saints”. I mean, hello, it’s right in the Catechism, and is a concept that goes all the way back to the beginning of the Church. Please stop trying to be divisive.

 

[wmscott]

WOW:bighanky::bighanky: HAPPY TEARS HAPPY TEARS. THANK-YOU!

I did not mean to make you cry.

As a note though, some Protestant denominations also pray the Rosary. I cannot remember who they are.