Why do Churches Continue to Purchase OCP Material?

[JuantheTuba]

In my favor?

Eh, figure of speech, probably should’ve worded it better.

 

[Cat]

Our very large parish doesn’t buy from OCP, but we still sing the modern hymns, and do not make use of the propers or Gregorian chant. We do about half modern hymns and half traditional hymns, which is very nice. There are other publishing companies–giving up OCP doesn’t mean a return to ancient music.

I agree with all those on this thread who say that many Catholics, including many orthodox and devout Catholics who DO believe in True Presence, love the modern hymns. Of course Catholic parishes are not congregational in their politics. In Catholic Churches, the bishops have the final say about music, and the fact remains that many bishops in the U.S. are just fine with OCP products, and are just fine with the four-hymn sandwich Mass instead of the propers and Gregorian chant. After all, this IS still a valid option for Masses according to the written documents.

Is it really possible that so very many bishops are…not as knowledgeable and theologically-correct and pastorally-sensitive as the conservative members of CAF?

I sincerely suggest that those of you who despise the modern hymns so very much should try very very hard to try to figure out why so many people love them and why you don’t. Take off the critical hat and put on the humble hat and try to figure this out.

I can’t see that it is conducive to worship to sit and stew over the music during Mass and then come here to CAF and write a diatribe against modern music in the Mass. Why not search around for a parish and a Mass that does less of the modern music and more of the music that you personally like? Stop subjecting yourself to something that brings so much bitterness and resentment into your soul.

OR…why not figure out a way to make peace with this music and possibly even enjoy it a little? Study the words and melodies and try to get into the heads and hearts of those who like it so much. You still may personally prefer something more ancient, but at least you will be able to appreciate the music without having your blood pressure go up everytime you hear a piano or guitar play the intro to “City of God” or “Gather Us In.”

Just keep reminding yourself that no parish is doing something “wrong” to use OCP and to use modern hymns. And no parish is doing something “wrong” to avoid Gregorian chant either. The reason you don’t hear Gregorian chant in Mass is the same reason you don’t hear a lot of organists play Bach or Vierne for prelude and postlude–because it’s DIFFICULT. There are not a lot of people in the U.S. who know much about Gregorian chant or how to sing or teach it.

And even though there are people here on CAF who insist that Gregorian chant is easy to sing, well…I think a lot of people, including me, would disagree strongly. This isn’t an evil plot by liberals to deliberately avoid doing what the Church wants us to do–it’s just the way things are in the U.S.–we are not very knowledgable about Gregorian chant. Just keep donating money to the seminaries and colleges that have a strong music program and teach their music students about Gregorian chant. Then you will see more of it in the parishes.

 

[Elizium23]

Personally, Cat, I think the modern hymns are the most difficult to sing. They have twitchy rhythms and surprise notes that come out of nowhere. I am always raising my hand in rehearsal to clarify a rhythm that we got wrong and the director’s always saying “yeah, you’re right…” Modern hymns go by rules of pop music rather than hymnody, and so they have intractable vocal ranges that the assembly can’t match, there are dynamic and time signature changes willy-nilly, all kinds of shenanigans are pulled in favor of putting on a “good show”.

There are hymns with good lyrics, Biblically based that are just set to incredibly cheesy melodies that set my teeth on edge. Then there are the hymns with really questionable banal lyrics that do nothing to catechize the faithful. Flor y Canto offers both of these together. I would gladly sing OCP’s load of junk in English all day long if it meant I didn’t have to do any Flor y Canto. The Latinos love it, the same way that little children enjoy eating candy. Because it tastes good and you can eat it all day until it gives a stomach ache and cavities, what nutrition do you have left?

The simplest hymns to sing are traditional four-parters. They have somber rhythms made of quarter- and half-notes. There are no surprise pitches. I can sight-read many harmonies easily out of the book (and these days, I do, because we spend 45 minutes on one OCP piece and don’t leave time to rehearse, e.g. “Songs of Thankfulness and Praise”.) The reason OCP material is perceived as easy is because it is ubiquitous. If Gregorian chant were as widespread and common as OCP then nobody would have a problem singing it, it would be second nature. Gregorian chant is a mysterious, rare thing in the Church now because it was swept away in “reform”. It is not familiar to Catholic school children, nor young adults or their parents, and the elderly barely remember a time they heard it in church, and most of them hated the old Latin form anyway. That’s an accurate description of my own Catholic family.

English is not easy to learn, nor the best sacred language, and yet it is learned by billions of children and spoken worldwide. Foreigners learn it because it is the lingua franca of commerce. English enjoys “pride of place” in today’s world thanks to the imperialistic efforts of Britain and the USA. The peole of the USA know and love Lady Gaga songs and dance moves. Justin Bieber and Usher dominate the charts. People find their songs easy to learn and sing along. Wouldn’t it be nice if Latin and Gregorian chant enjoyed the same use? Everyone would consider them a snap to learn if they were so ubiquitous.

The Church will do best to encourage chant in schools and seminaries, and plant seeds that will grow into a new generation of appreciation for sacred music that is appropriate at Mass. Popes and bishops can lead by example. This is a problem that won’t be overcome in one generation, but several, with patient attention.

As for finding the right parish, well I love my parish. We recently got Lumen Christi Missals and I was over the moon until I found out the director doesn’t like them and won’t implement them. There are so many good things about my parish that I wouldn’t leave if every Mass were full of Peter, Paul & Mary tunes. In general, I put up with music I don’t like, because I love to sing and I love the liturgy, and for me, music ministry is about service to God and His people, not my personal opinions.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

Personally, Cat, I think the modern hymns are the most difficult to sing. They have twitchy rhythms and surprise notes that come out of nowhere. I am always raising my hand in rehearsal to clarify a rhythm that we got wrong and the director’s always saying “yeah, you’re right…”

I agree. And for most of the modern hymns, every verse seems to have a new rhythm, with notes added or taken away from the melody based on what words the composer tried to squeeze in there, plus the occasional coda and an alternate melody for the ending verse… I think it’s a lot more difficult to keep track of all that than it is to sing an older hymn that has a single melody for every verse and refrain.

I do think there are some nice songs, even a few nice modern songs, in the OCP hymnal (in Advent, our parish sang “Late have I loved Thee” once, and I was rather fond of it)… but there are many more that are just badly written from a musical standpoint, and difficult to sing along with, and then there are some others whose lyrics are certainly questionable.

Changing a parish’s music takes time, and a slow and gradual approach – and even with a gradual approach it’s likely that some parishioners like the OCP hymns, even the questionable ones, and are going to be offended. Major changes like that require great delicacy. At my prior parish, they began a transition away from the OCP hymnal by continuing to use the OCP hymnals but being increasingly selective about which songs they sung. Then, they introduced more traditional hymnals as a supplement, and eventually they were going to discontinue buying the OCP hymnals entirely. (I moved away from the parish before they reached the last step). It’s a slow process.

 

[agapewolf]

The 4 part old school hymns are BY NO MEANS AT ALL easy.

They are textbook difficult to learn. textbook. The wordiness of cramming all the syllables of bigger words into measures that don’t fit it is one of the bigger problems.

Yes, people sing out “Holy God we praise thy name”. Because they know it. They’ve heard it lots of times. When I try to teach the children this song, it takes us a LONG time before they can even squeak it out in any kind of coherent manner. A praise and worship song that is repetitive, uses long tones, simple scriptural phrases, however, they sing along the first time because its so easy. (and THIS type is closer to chant than the 4 part harmony hymns).

P/W music is NOT the same as the haas/schutte/jesuit era music, by the way.

Do NOT accuse me of not liking it, or somehow giving off some sort of bad vibe when I teach it either, as has been suggested before. I LOVE the old hymns. They’ve stood the test of time. I talk it up to the kids. They don’t like it, they don’t pick it in their song choices, and they don’t sing it well.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

The 4 part old school hymns are BY NO MEANS AT ALL easy.

P/W music is NOT the same as the haas/schutte/jesuit era music, by the way.

Except most parishes, at least in my neck of the woods, seem to choose Haugen/Haas/Schutte/etc. music almost exclusively… There are some good songs out there that were composed after the 1960s, and there is good praise & worship music – the problem is that those choosing the music for Mass in many (most?) parishes tend to choose the bad music. (Bad from a compositional standpoint, at minimum, and some are bad in lyrics, too.) And then you end up with bad music that is poorly sung. Sigh.

I was raised in another church, and when I joined the Catholic Church as an adult, one of the biggest things I mourned was the loss of good music on Sundays.

 

[Joe_5859]

I agree with CB Catholic.

Before I began reading Catholic Answers materials, viewed info on their website, and then eventually (in 2004) joined this forum I had not heard that anyone disliked OCP’s music or materials. Most of the musical opinions expressed in this forum are extremely conservative.

The Church is obviously not a democracy. But that doesn’t change the fact that majority opinions have a lot of influence.

I guess it’s just the circles I run/ran in, but I heard people complaining about OCP long before I ever came to CAF.

I woulldn’t discount price as a factor. Currently, you can get OCP’s annual Breaking the Bread for $3.70 each (for 50 or more). Hardcover hymnals are significantly more expensive, especially when you consider you’re talking about hundreds of copies.

 

[SMHW]

But don’t forget that the majority is sometimes wrong, especially in the turbulent time after a council. This is true in so many different areas.

For example…Wrong again.

Just a few examples, off the top of my head.

I haven’t forgotten that the majority can be wrong. My point was that rocking the boat too hard can be damaging to the faith of some people. And if a bishop or priest is going to rock that boat he had better believe whole heartedly in what he is doing so he can sell his understanding to those whose faith is tender.

 

[clem456]

Been Catholic for most of 52 years and have never heard a complaint about any of this til these forums.
Our parish has a movement now to move away from the current mix of traditional and OCP stuff to praise and worship with combos including drumkit. One of the Masses is now using this music. It’s not for me, but my tastes don’t trump what the priest and bishop allow here.

 

[SMHW]

I guess it’s just the circles I run/ran in, but I heard people complaining about OCP long before I ever came to CAF.

Well, Catholic Answers has been around a lot longer than CAF. So I’ve heard *some *complaints since the mid-1990s. But not nearly so many as I have heard since after about 2006 or so.

 

[clem456]

But don’t forget that the majority is sometimes wrong, especially in the turbulent time after a council. .

The majority or minority may be right or wrong. That is irrelevant. The Church is not a modern American-style democracy subject to the tastes of the laity. It has a hieracrchy of authority and competence. As a layperson one of my tasks is to trust those who have competence in these areas. Pators. Bishops. Music directors.
This is a forever and always issue, not a post-conciliar issue.

 

[Sarabande]

The only thing I can say, because I can’t answer the question, is that the “revulsion” to the hymnals, in my experience, is largely limited to these forums, and a few others on the internet, and the more “traditionalist” Catholics. Most Catholics in most parishes like them just fine, and it is doubtful they want to change, as their favorite songs are in them.

You just have to deal with the reality that everyone has different tastes, even though yours seem the best to you. Suggesting something else is fine, but when it doesn’t happen, don’t be overly disappointed.

Yup.

Most people don’t really care. Believe it or not, CAF is by no means representative of the average Catholic population. Not by a long shot.

I think these two posts are very true. Most people just don’t care. Music isn’t as big of a deal to them as it is some people. It is to me because I am a musician and my easiest way for prayer and worship is through music, but that is not the case for many people. If people do like music, often times, they don’t know that there are other options.

Now, that’s not to say that people who usually are indifferent to music at mass won’t be affected. We have seen this at one of the parishes where I regularly work and have done a revamping of the music program, using professional instrumentalists and singers. We do a mix of sacred classical repertoire and the typical hymns you hear in the Gather hymnals. They sing very well, but only music they know and it takes a LOOONG time to learn anything new. They are not quick to change or like change. That said, it is one of the only parishes I have ever cantored at where lots of people will sing harmony during the hymns and mass parts. They do it in full voice. It’s great.

The other thing, too, is that many people’s favorite hymns (especially of a particular age group) are from the OCP hymnals.

 

[Sarabande]

Except most parishes, at least in my neck of the woods, seem to choose Haugen/Haas/Schutte/etc. music almost exclusively… There are some good songs out there that were composed after the 1960s, and there is good praise & worship music --** the problem is that those choosing the music for Mass in many (most?) parishes tend to choose the bad music. (Bad from a compositional standpoint, at minimum, and some are bad in lyrics, too.) And then you end up with bad music that is poorly sung.** Sigh.

I was raised in another church, and when I joined the Catholic Church as an adult, one of the biggest things I mourned was the loss of good music on Sundays.

I think this is true. Most parishes, at least where I work and live, do not employ P/W music for their liturgies. I know of only one parish in my diocese that does it almost exclusively and it is a charismatic parish. Many of the parishes use OCP, Gather hymnals and the Respond and Acclaim psalm book. Some use the Michel Guimont psalm book (which I actually like) in conjunction with the Gather hymnal. A few use WLP and Worship III as well as WLP psalm book. I’ve only seen the Adoremus hymnal in one country, farming parish in a neighboring diocese. (And I’ve cantored in literally 100+ parishes in my diocese and surrounding dioceses as a freelancer and substitute)

Although I’m not a fan of P/W music (I do appreciate most of the musicians’ talent who do it… many are very good at what they do), I agree with agapeolf that it is simple to sing. Once you get the style, musically-speaking, it’s easy. I partly agree with the comment that 4-part “traditional” hymns are difficult. To play, they can be deceptively difficult. There is a talent in knowing how to play those hymns well in order to correctly support the congregation in singing. You can’t be sloppy with the rhythms or change them around. Singing-wise, I’ve had different experiences. It always depends on the parish and what they are used to. For parishes that prefer more “traditional” hymnody, they can pick up a “new”, old, traditional hymn very easily. Some parishes, like the one I talked about in my previous post, take a long time to learn the music - whether or not it’s “traditional” or “modern”. If the musicianship is good to excellent, people will eventually pick it, but like with anything, all music is usually learned by rote. Some get it right away, others don’t. The thing to be careful of is not taking too long to learn something, otherwise, that’s when the complaints begin.

Kids can be hit or miss, I think. I personally had a good experience teaching my students the traditional hymns and chant and they were kids who were used to rap, hip-hop and R&B. That said, it took me about a year to help them experience singing actual melodies. (A lot of them were so used to rap, they didn’t know how to match pitches.) Once they got that, it was easier to teach them the hymns, chants and other secular songs in the classroom.

 

[gh4]

When I came into the Church, our parish used Glory and Praise. I quite like it!
Our parish now uses the disposable music issue from OCP. It works fine.
We often have less than 25 people at our vigil masses and 50-60 at Sunday mass, and our parish tends not to sing much or well. So the music issue is easy and works for us.

 

[Elizium23]

Just doing some routine checking here, I noticed that +Vlazny of the Archdiocese of Portland is almost 76 years old. This means that we should see a successor appointed relatively soon. I wonder if anything can be done to OCP or if the status quo will be maintained? Hmm…

 

[Joe_5859]

Just doing some routine checking here, I noticed that +Vlazny of the Archdiocese of Portland is almost 76 years old. This means that we should see a successor appointed relatively soon. I wonder if anything can be done to OCP or if the status quo will be maintained? Hmm…

What do you imagine a bishop doing?

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Just doing some routine checking here, I noticed that +Vlazny of the Archdiocese of Portland is almost 76 years old. This means that we should see a successor appointed relatively soon. I wonder if anything can be done to OCP or if the status quo will be maintained? Hmm…

I pray that the next Archbishop of Portland will take an interest in OCP, since the Archdiocese owns it. The Catholic Herald, the archdiocesan newspaper, is also printed by OCP and is quite liberal. The Spanish edition is largely dedicated to immigration-reform stories and recently asked for prayers for the health of Venezuelan Communist dictator Hugo Chavez.

However, we must remember that while OCP is the largest publisher of Catholic liturgical resources, there are others which one must also be cautious. GIA’s hymnals are musically superior to OCP, but have equally poor theological content. Likewise, the slightly more traditional J.S. Paluch hymnals and the new kid on the block, St. Augustine (which, in their favor, eschews inclusive language), still contain many troubling pieces.

 

[Joe_5859]

I pray that the next Archbishop of Portland will take an interest in OCP, since the Archdiocese owns it. The Catholic Herald, the archdiocesan newspaper, is also printed by OCP and is quite liberal. The Spanish edition is largely dedicated to immigration-reform stories and recently asked for prayers for the health of Venezuelan Communist dictator Hugo Chavez.

However, we must remember that while OCP is the largest publisher of Catholic liturgical resources, there are others which one must also be cautious. GIA’s hymnals are musically superior to OCP, but have equally poor theological content. Likewise, the slightly more traditional J.S. Paluch hymnals and the new kid on the block, St. Augustine (which, in their favor, eschews inclusive language), still contain many troubling pieces.

The archdiocese owns OCP? Are you sure about that?

It looks like the archbishop is the chair of their Board of Directors.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

I wouldn’t hold my breath about a change for OCP coming with a change of the Portland Archbishop. I’ve lived my whole life in this archdiocese and OCP material was almost exclusively used even when Cardinal Laveda and Cardinal George were Archbishops.

 

[Corki]

The revulsion with which many people view these hymanls is quite evident, especially on this forum. So why, with the bad music, lack of Gradual texts, and expense of replacing the hymnals, do churches continue to purchase them? I’ve seen these literally everywhere. Every single church that I have ever visited owns OCP hymnals. There are other options, especially recently that are permanent, contain good music, and all of the text necessary for the Mass. I’ve personally tried to convince a parish to purchase one of these alternatives, but to no avail. I received a lame excuse for the liturgical director (or whatever title she had) about the “changing needs of the church”, even though the church sings the same bad songs that we all know from the past 20 years.

Why are alternatives so difficult to pursue?

First of all, there are no real alternatives. The other major publisher, GIA, is just as bad. There are all-traditional hymnals such as Adoremus but they contain no contemporary music at all. While I signed the pledge to not sing H, H and S, all contemporary music isn’t as bad as what those three write. Even the OCP publications include contemporary music by Bernadette Farrel and Matt Maher, for example, who are pretty inoffensive for contemporary composers.

The other reason is that OCP spends a ton of money lobbying parishes and music directors.