Why do Curses of pagans work?

[_Gandalf]

MtnDwellar:

How many witches have resurrected themselves bodily from the dead?

As far as I know, zero. Though it’s up to debate whether Jesus did either. Though that is a completely different discussion, and one I’m not planning on getting into.

SunnaB16:

You must have “The Sight”! That post (#30) was the first post i made on this thread…unless you just meant that someone would say that.

I never said that, and for that matter I don’t recall anyone else saying that, so to be honest I have no idea what you are talking about.

Magic is NOT a natural force; neither is God, and neither is Satan.

I would disagree. For instance, after Googling “Define: natural”, then the first definition for the adjective form of the word was “Existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind”. Unless you claim that god was man made, then by that definition at least you are wrong. Though I’m sure you could find one to prove yourself right as well. Words are funny like that.

Read my earlier comment about Satan.

There isn’t really that much I can say. You seemed to have already made up your mind that magic is “Pure deception!” and “Pure malice!”. There isn’t any empirical way I can prove it one way or the other, so I’ll leave you to your beliefs. Know though that magic does a lot of good in this world, and that you are judging it too harshly.

vz71:

Interesting that when a point is made well and cannot be refuted people will often resort to a distortion of it and try to refute the distortion instead.

You didn’t make a point, you stated an opinion. And even then, there isn’t much to be said about it. I don’t agree with your opinion, but I thought that that went without saying. If you need me to be more clear, I can manage that.
Additionally, my argument is not a distortion, it is experience. Whether my point is right or wrong, I have heard many Christians blame every bad thing that happens on Satan, and attribute every good thing that happens to God. It’s either a product of your choices (as well as other peoples) or it’s the product of divine intervention. You can’t have it both ways.

Imryl:

I’m a diabolist. That is, a Satan worshipper.

A curious religion if you ask me. You accept the basic primes of Christianity, but you reject it’s teachings. Or that’s my understanding of it anyway; I might be woefully incorrect. Either way, I would be interesting in hearing more.

First, you keep saying “your religion”…

My beliefs are more clear-cut then I have let show, but because this thread is about magic and not my beliefs, I haven’t spent time elaborating on the subject.

Second, when you speak of different spells, what do you have in mind?

There are so many different spells for so many different applications, that it’s hard to properly answer your question. What I would refer to as more common spells would be ones of cleansing and protection, but you can cast a spell for virtually anything. If it works or not is another issue, but it can be cast.

I may start a thread in the Non-Catholic forum to discuss some of your misconceptions, not only about Christianity and Catholicism, but “magic” in general.

Rather bold words. Though if I wanted to learn more about Christianity, I’m unlikely to turn to a Satanist to do so. The same is true for magic.

To the original poster - there is no such thing as magic, and therefore curses do not work.

Here we must disagree. Magic exists, and it has nothing to do with Satan, a figure that I personally think doesn’t exist. You may disagree all you like, you are entitled to your opinion, but that is the truth as I see it.

By any chance, have y’all noticed what has happened now that Imryl has pitched in? We have a Witch that doesn’t believe in Satan, but does believe in magic; we have Catholics that believe in magic, and believe that Satan is behind it; and we have a Satanist that believes in Satan, but does not believe in magic. I can’t help but find that amusing.

 

[SunnaB16]

SunnaB16:

I never said that, and for that matter I don’t recall anyone else saying that, so to be honest I have no idea what you are talking about.

???!!!
The very words that you quoted explain what i was getting at.
In my first post on this thread, i said: “This will upset you…”; and “suggested” that Satan has deceived you etc. etc. etc. Your response was: “I assumed you would take that stand.”. My response was: “You must have ‘The Sight’!”: suggesting that you knew that i, personally, would make that remark. My response about “The Sight” was a feeble attempt at humour. The last part of that sentence asked whether you were assuming that one or other of the Christian posters would say that.

(That last paragraph was Lesson #N in how to make a mountain out of a molehill.)

I would disagree. For instance, after Googling “Define: natural”, then the first definition for the adjective form of the word was “Existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind”. Unless you claim that god was man made, then by that definition at least you are wrong. Though I’m sure you could find one to prove yourself right as well. Words are funny like that.

Ignoring the fact that the site managed to misspell “mankind”:
Read imryl`s last paragraph. He expresses it much more clearly than my clumsy attempt does.

There isn’t really that much I can say. You seemed to have already made up your mind that magic is “Pure deception!” and “Pure malice!”.

You bet!

There isn’t any empirical way I can prove it one way or the other, so I’ll leave you to your beliefs. Know though that magic does a lot of good in this world, and that you are judging it too harshly.

Old Nick and his fellow miserifics would be more than pleased by your outlook. As Don McLean sang: “…I saw Satan laughing with delight…”.

vz71:

Additionally, my argument is not a distortion, it is experience.

Any examples?

Whether my point is right or wrong, I have heard many Christians blame every bad thing that happens on Satan, and attribute every good thing that happens to God.

Thats too simplistic; and a Christian shouldnt hold that view. Eg. Mother Teresa said: "Suffering is Gods tender caress.". In this life, we Christians dont expect to get it easy.

It’s either a product of your choices (as well as other peoples) or it’s the product of divine intervention. You can’t have it both ways.

Why not?

Imryl:

A curious religion if you ask me. You accept the basic primes of Christianity, but you reject it’s teachings. Or that’s my understanding of it anyway; I might be woefully incorrect. Either way, I would be interesting in hearing more…

Rather bold words. Though if I wanted to learn more about Christianity, I’m unlikely to turn to a Satanist to do so. The same is true for magic.

imryl (“a Satanist”) has a better grasp of reality than you have. His reason for being one may be (misguided, but) well-intentioned. If thats the case, he wouldnt be the first! i`m not going to judge him.

By any chance, have y’all noticed what has happened now that Imryl has pitched in? We have a Witch that doesn’t believe in Satan, but does believe in magic; we have Catholics that believe in magic, and believe that Satan is behind it; and we have a Satanist that believes in Satan, but does not believe in magic. I can’t help but find that amusing.

We Catholics can`t help but find that damned tragic!

 

[vz71]

You didn’t make a point, you stated an opinion. And even then, there isn’t much to be said about it. I don’t agree with your opinion, but I thought that that went without saying. If you need me to be more clear, I can manage that.
Additionally, my argument is not a distortion, it is experience.

And what experience do you have that tells you some piece of magic that you believe you performed was not, in fact, done by Satan?

Whether my point is right or wrong, I have heard many Christians blame every bad thing that happens on Satan, and attribute every good thing that happens to God. It’s either a product of your choices (as well as other peoples) or it’s the product of divine intervention. You can’t have it both ways.

Obviously there are things done by God (or a servent thereof), things done by Satan (or a servent thereof), and things done by yourself…assuming we are not talking about supernatural events.

I see no problem with acknowledging all of these possibilities.
It is very distorted to believe that only one of those possibilities exists.

 

[vz71]

By any chance, have y’all noticed what has happened now that Imryl has pitched in? We have a Witch that doesn’t believe in Satan, but does believe in magic; we have Catholics that believe in magic, and believe that Satan is behind it; and we have a Satanist that believes in Satan, but does not believe in magic. I can’t help but find that amusing.

I missed this.

I was under the impression the Catholics here disbelieved magic knowing that the power to do something must come from something other than man.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Take my mother-in-law.

Please.

 

[_Gandalf]

SunnaB16:

???!!!
The very words that you quoted explain what i was getting at.

Ah! Sorry, that went completely over my head. I thought you were trying to quote me.

Ignoring the fact that the site managed to misspell “mankind”:
Read imryl`s last paragraph. He expresses it much more clearly than my clumsy attempt does.

Though I disagree with the term “humankind” in general (Or more, what it represents), it is not actually incorrect to use it in the place of “mankind”. With that aside, I’ve already posted something for Imryl. I would be glad to continue discussing it with him, though in order for me to formulate a response I would like it if you made something original. Otherwise I’m just going to cut and past what I said to him, which is a waste of every bodies time.

Old Nick and his fellow miserifics would be more than pleased by your outlook. As Don McLean sang: “…I saw Satan laughing with delight…”.

I would disagree. When ones doesn’t exist, it’s hard to find pleasure in anything. Though I am unfamiliar with the song you are quoting.

Any examples?

Are you asking my to videotape people, or are you going to take my word for it?

Thats too simplistic; and a Christian shouldnt hold that view. Eg. Mother Teresa said: "Suffering is Gods tender caress.". In this life, we Christians dont expect to get it easy.

I don’t mean to affront you in saying this, but are there any Christians who actually hold all views of their religion? It just seems to me that all of the ones I’ve known have deviated from what many of you are describing as good Christian policy.

Why not?

Because something can’t be a product of both divine intervention and free will. There are three possibilities here:
1: It was a product of divine intervention exclusively, in which case people are not involved.
2: It was the product of people exclusively, in which case it was not by divine intervention.
3: There was divine intervention to get people to do something, which would violate their free will.
1 means that what we do doesn’t matter, something I reject. 3 means that we don’t have free will, which I reject. 2 means that we can influence the world around us, and we have free will. Both of which I agree with. Now these three are all a little to absolute to be taken completely literally, but as a basic explanation I think they work just fine.

imryl (“a Satanist”) has a better grasp of reality than you have. His reason for being one may be (misguided, but) well-intentioned. If thats the case, he wouldnt be the first! i`m not going to judge him.

I would obviously disagree with your first claim, but do not confuse my words for judgement. My philosophy is simple: If I want to learn more about Catholicism, I will talk to a Catholic. If I want to learn more about Wicca, I will talk to a Wiccan. If I want to learn more about Satanism, I will talk to a Satanist. If I want to learn more about Buddhism, Mormonism, Muslims, or the Baha’i, I will talk to members of those religions. I have no reason to go to a Satanist for information about Catholicism. That was what I was trying to convey. If you, Imryl, or anyone else misunderstood that, I apologize for not being clear enough.

We Catholics can`t help but find that damned tragic!

Why is that? Can you not see the symmetry? Or are you just under the belief that it’s tragic everyone doesn’t share your beliefs? If the later is the case, I would argue that it is considerably more tragic that you can not respect the beliefs of others.

vz71:

And what experience do you have that tells you some piece of magic that you believe you performed was not, in fact, done by Satan?

Right off the bat, you’re going to have to define “Satan”. There are forms of magic that utilize spirits, so if one of these happens to be named Satan then yes, some forms of magic are done by Satan (though still through the caster). However, even if you do choose to use that definition, it wouldn’t matter. I happen not to do that type of magic. With the majority of magic that I do, the energy comes from yours truly. Though it is not uncommon for me to utilize an element as well.

I see no problem with acknowledging all of these possibilities.

That’s reasonable.

I was under the impression the Catholics here disbelieved magic knowing that the power to do something must come from something other than man.

I was under the impression that y’all believed in magic, but disagreed as to how it worked. And I believe I said as much in that paragraph (“We have Catholics that believe in magic, and believe that Satan is behind it”). Though unless I am mistaken, we have said virtually the same thing two different ways.

Monte RCMS:

Take my mother-in-law.

Please.

Pardon? I’m sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

 

[SunnaB16]

SunnaB16:

I would disagree. When ones doesn’t exist, it’s hard to find pleasure in anything. Though I am unfamiliar with the song you are quoting.

American Pie: early 1970s.

Are you asking my to videotape people, or are you going to take my word for it?

Just asking for examples from your own experience. In print.

Because something can’t be a product of both divine intervention and free will.

Yes it can be!
Divine intervention can occur as a result of prayer.

There are three possibilities here:
1: It was a product of divine intervention exclusively, in which case people are not involved.
2: It was the product of people exclusively, in which case it was not by divine intervention.
3: There was divine intervention to get people to do something, which would violate their free will.

God doesn`t force us; He prompts.

1 means that what we do doesn’t matter, something I reject.

Is that logical?

I would obviously disagree with your first claim, but do not confuse my words for judgement.

The fact that Imryl believes in the existence of Satan and, apparently, God, shows that he has a better grasp of reality than you have. Thats all i meant. Again, the last paragraph of his first post says something thats worth reading.

Why is that? Can you not see the symmetry? Or are you just under the belief that it’s tragic everyone doesn’t share your beliefs? If the later is the case, I would argue that it is considerably more tragic that you can not respect the beliefs of others.

i respect the beliefs of others, all right; but “others” have to be prepared to accept the consequences of their beliefs…and that includes YOU! (already stated in an earlier thread)
We Catholics also have to accept the consequences of our violating God`s laws; which are there for our benefit, not His.

Monte RCMS:

Pardon? I’m sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

He might want you to hex his mother in law!

Dont bother replying: youre not going to budge; and i`m certainly not going to.
This is just trench warfare.

 

[vz71]

Right off the bat, you’re going to have to define “Satan”. There are forms of magic that utilize spirits, so if one of these happens to be named Satan then yes, some forms of magic are done by Satan (though still through the caster). However, even if you do choose to use that definition, it wouldn’t matter. I happen not to do that type of magic. With the majority of magic that I do, the energy comes from yours truly.

And what evidence do you have that the supernatural was done by yourself and not some supernatural being?

 

[Imryl]

I am constructing a response, which for some reason just got deleted so it will be much shorter now, but I only have short blocks of time so it might be a little while.

By the way, for future reference, I’m a woman.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

He might want you to hex his mother in law!

.

Just the opposite: I spend all my time dodging her hexes … lightning bolts that kill. She’s got three so far.

So, just keep your heads down!

 

[Imryl]

I’m rather annoyed that my computer ate my first response because I was going to nuance a few things that you were pointing at that weren’t entirely correct. But, since that did happen, I’ll respond only to what you directed at me.

Imryl:

A curious religion if you ask me. You accept the basic primes of Christianity, but you reject it’s teachings. Or that’s my understanding of it anyway; I might be woefully incorrect. Either way, I would be interesting in hearing more.

You’re right, this isn’t the thread for an in depth discussion about it, but I can say a thing or two quickly. I do not accept the “basic primes of Christianity”. I accept all the assertions of Christianity, not just the basic things. I don’t reject the teachings, I reject God.

You will find, if you’re serious about learning about Christianity, and in particular, Catholicism, that this is not the type a religion where you check your brain at the door. This is not about rainbows and unicorns and fluffy bunny love, peace and harmony. This religion is very thoughtful, very deliberate and requires critical thinking. It will not disappoint.

My beliefs are more clear-cut then I have let show, but because this thread is about magic and not my beliefs, I haven’t spent time elaborating on the subject.

Your right, this is not about your beliefs, but we definitely need to know what you mean when you say religion, what you believe magic is and what spells can do and why. I specifically need to know what you mean by energy and where and what you think it comes from, since you mentioned somewhere in this thread, that these things cannot be proved empirically. All of this is very important to the discussion.

What I would refer to as more common spells would be ones of cleansing and protection, but you can cast a spell for virtually anything. If it works or not is another issue, but it can be cast.

As I said - If we are going to have this discussion about magic, spells, curses and the like, we need to know how you think you effect these changes.

Rather bold words. Though if I wanted to learn more about Christianity, I’m unlikely to turn to a Satanist to do so. The same is true for magic.

Well, the unfortunate truth is I probably know a wee bit more then the average Christian or Catholic. But I say the average Catholic. The Catholics here are usually catechized far better. The good news is… If I were to say anything off on these forums, they’d surely correct me.

Here we must disagree. Magic exists, and it has nothing to do with Satan, a figure that I personally think doesn’t exist. You may disagree all you like, you are entitled to your opinion, but that is the truth as I see it.

Part of my first response answered this question. And it bothers me that I have to rewrite some of it again… because it was rather lengthy and explained this very well. This will not explain it as well, because some of this hinges on how you answer the questions I posed above instead of my effort to lay down the right use of vocabulary.

No one can say that “magic” or a “spell” has a specific connection with Satan. Anything you pray for (which really means asks for) could just as easily be answered by God rather then devils. The point is, Christians believe since you’re not specifically petitioning God, a different sort of spiritual being could very well answer the call.

(Not addressing where these other things could answer even if you were specifically answering God btw.)

By any chance, have y’all noticed what has happened now that Imryl has pitched in? We have a Witch that doesn’t believe in Satan, but does believe in magic; we have Catholics that believe in magic, and believe that Satan is behind it; and we have a Satanist that believes in Satan, but does not believe in magic. I can’t help but find that amusing.

This all hinges on what you really believe magic is, and this energy you speak of. Since you’ve conceded that you also believe in spiritual beings, it also depends on what you think these spiritual beings are and what they are capable of.

Aside: Pretty sure the mother-in-law was a joke. Don’t be wound so tight! This is all in good humor!

 

[_Gandalf]

SunnaB16:

Just asking for examples from your own experience. In print.

I’ve often heard Christians blame Satan in conversation, or attribute things to God in different subjects. I’ve heard everything from bad luck to “naughty” thoughts getting blamed on Satan. It just seems like that concept has been made into a scapegoat.
If you want specific example, I’m afraid I haven’t dedicated their words to memory. This is probably what you where going for to start with, so you probably have some elaborate point to make. Feel free to do so now.

Divine intervention can occur as a result of prayer.

In what sense? That a person will suddenly do something because of divine intervention (robbing them of free will) or does it just automatically happen? Both sound rather fishy to me.

God doesn`t force us; He prompts.

So you are defining divine intervention as a prompt? So you get a funny feeling that you should do something and that’s considered divine intervention? I just call it getting a gut feeling.

Is that logical?

I think it’s very logical to say reject the thought that our actions are meaningless. I could make a case for it if you like, but as it is I’m going to save space for other replies.

Dont bother replying: youre not going to budge; and i`m certainly not going to.
This is just trench warfare.

I just don’t understand it. If he was just posting to be random, sure, I can buy that. But if he actually had a point, it’s lost on me. At first I figured he accidentally posted on the wrong thread.

vz71:

And what evidence do you have that the supernatural was done by yourself and not some supernatural being?

How about because I’m the one doing it? I direct the energy for the needed task, there isn’t really much place for something else to intervene.

 

[_Gandalf]

Imryl:

I’m rather annoyed that my computer ate my first response because I was going to nuance a few things that you were pointing at that weren’t entirely correct. But, since that did happen, I’ll respond only to what you directed at me.

I hate it when that happens. For some reason, I can never write something as good the second time. Probably because it’s frustrating and monotonous the second time.

You’re right, this isn’t the thread for an in depth discussion about it, but I can say a thing or two quickly. I do not accept the “basic primes of Christianity”. I accept all the assertions of Christianity, not just the basic things. I don’t reject the teachings, I reject God.

Um… Why? If you accept “All the assertions of Christianity”, why do you choose Satan over God?

You will find, if you’re serious about learning about Christianity, and in particular, Catholicism, that this is not the type a religion where you check your brain at the door. This is not about rainbows and unicorns and fluffy bunny love, peace and harmony. This religion is very thoughtful, very deliberate and requires critical thinking. It will not disappoint.

In general, I would agree. Catholicism is a very in depth religion, one that has had many scholars elaborate on things. It’s unfortunate that some branches of Paganism are so shallow, but the same can not be said for Catholicism.

Your right, this is not about your beliefs, but we definitely need to know what you mean when you say religion, what you believe magic is and what spells can do and why. I specifically need to know what you mean by energy and where and what you think it comes from, since you mentioned somewhere in this thread, that these things cannot be proved empirically. All of this is very important to the discussion.

A pop quiz! Always fun. I’ll take these one at a time:

Religion:
For the most part, I don’t see why you need to know. I don’t mind telling you, it’s just that that would bring up a whole different discussion, and this forum is about magic. Luckily, magic is not specific to my religion. If you want to pm me about the matter, feel free.

Magic:
I believe that magic is the channeling and manipulation of energy to accomplish a specific purpose.

What spells can do:
There is no clear cut answer to this. It greatly depends on the caster, how much energy is involved, and what you are trying to do. If you want to, for instance, blot out the sun, you aren’t going to get anything done. However if you wanted to do something simpler like help protect your home, that is likely to work.

How spells work:
Hard to answer specifically. Mainly because there are many types of magic. However, I think I can simplify them into two categories: Magic that involves channeling energy, and magic that involves - for lack of better words - domination. I’ve been discussing the first group primarily, though some forms of magic (Necromancy is an easy one to point out) work by forcing something to do something else, instead of you doing it more directly. I tend to avoid group number two, as it seems more then a little shady.
Category two is easy to understand. You basically make some entity do something. Category number one is harder to explain though. I’ll start by using a simplified universe. That’s a good place to start when I’m explaining physics to people, so I figure it’s worth a shot here as well.
Lets say that there are only two possible outcomes for everything. For most things, there are certain events that have been put into motion in the past that effect it one way or the other. Here I can use a scale as an analogy. You have so much weight on one side of the scale, and so much on the other. Magic would essentially add more weight to one side of it without physical activity. This simplistic description has flaws, but I think it works as a basic summation.

Energy:
Possibly my favorite subject. Though my lack of homonyms can make it confusing to follow. As I’ve said earlier, everything is energy. If you doubt this, read up on some of Einstein’s work. However, there are more types of energy then mainstream science acknowledges. For instance, you have energy. And by “you”, I am not referring to your body, which is made of matter, I am talking about you. Your essence, soul, chi, spirit, consciousness, or whatever. There are different types of energy, like the energy of yourself, the elements, matter itself, and of course the more scientific ones like electricity, light, heat, mechanical energy, and whatnot. Though now that I think of it, matter would fit nicely in both categories. The whole E = MC^2 thing.
Anyway, energy is everywhere, and everything. Just in different forms. This is one of the reasons why I disagree with the claim that magic is supernatural. It is just energy, like everything else, making it simply natural. In the practice of magic, you try to direct some of this energy for a specific thing.

Whew! That was long.
I hope that those descriptions did the trick. If not, please ask for more information. I have no problems sharing what I know.
I would like to say though that these are all my views, and would not be universally accepted.

Well, the unfortunate truth is I probably know a wee bit more then the average Christian or Catholic.

Possibly, but I’m of the belief that the best person to ask about a religion are the practitioners of that religion.

Aside: Pretty sure the mother-in-law was a joke. Don’t be wound so tight! This is all in good humor!

If it’s a joke, I completely don’t understand it. Either way, I don’t really see why it’s relevant. It was probably just put here as a prank.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Imryl:

If it’s a joke, I completely don’t understand it. Either way, I don’t really see why it’s relevant. It was probably just put here as a prank.

Actually, … well … check out the power of negative suggestion.

 

[vz71]

How about because I’m the one doing it? I direct the energy for the needed task, there isn’t really much place for something else to intervene.

Not good enough.
Unless there is some direct connection between your action and the supernatural, you cannot lay claim that you did it.

Consider, I can pick up a pencil and thow it.
I can describe the physical energy expended upon the pencil and show where I emparted the energy there.

You cannot do the same with the supernatural.

In the world I see you describing, no one picks up the pencil, they just will it and the pencil appears where they want it.
With no physical connect you cannot know if you did it or if some supernatural being did it for you.

 

[_Gandalf]

Not good enough.
Unless there is some direct connection between your action and the supernatural, you cannot lay claim that you did it.

There is absolutely no connection between my action and the supernatural. Because Magic isn’t supernatural. I’m beginning to sound like a broken record by saying that, but I can’t stress it enough. Whether it’s fully understood or not, it is not supernatural. It is a completely natural force.
And besides, there is a direct connection between my action and the magic. That connection is the energy channeled in doing the magic. It’s less tangible then, say, throwing a pencil, but no less real. And besides, I am the one supplying and channeling the energy, where would some other being come into play unless I chose to involve it?

 

[MtnDwellar]

And besides, I am the one supplying and channeling the energy, where would some other being come into play unless I chose to involve it?

Can you tell us, briefly, how you do that?

 

[vz71]

There is absolutely no connection between my action and the supernatural. Because Magic isn’t supernatural.

Perhaps you haven’t a clear understanding of what supernatural means.
Let’s try a different approach.

What physical laws are being manipulated towards your ends?

I can press a key on the keyboard and define the exact process by which the character appears on the screen. There is nothing supernatural, every step of the way obeys a physical law.

Without physical laws in place, there is no direct connect between the ends and your actions. And you have no way of knowing if the act was done for you or not.

 

[vz71]

…where would some other being come into play unless I chose to involve it?

Indeed.

Involvement of some other being precludes your having done anything on your own.
The spell has been done for you. It was not done of your own power.

And now we must examine the motives of this being.

 

[Big_Dummy]

I am guessing based on the book of Job, it is a matter of authority. One who is unsaved is basically under Satan’s authority and as such demons will do what God allows them to get away with. For a pagan’s curse to effect a believer requires God’s direct approval unless we are some how opening a door by living in sin. One scripture says don’t let demons or satan get a foothold in your life. Another text warns us about a “root of bitterness”, the Armor of God in Eph 6 comes to mind too. When people in scripture sinned God allowed bad things to happen, example Acts 5, a married couple lied to the Holy Spirit and they died. Satan’s goals is to destroy and corrupt — schemes of the devil. God may allow their curse over believers to spank us for a sin habbit or to toughen us up for battle in spiritual realms.