Why do Curses of pagans work?

[_Gandalf]

The very fact that you cannot prove your cause to effect tells us that there is no correlation.

Wrong on sooo many levels. If you like, I can prove that.

Occam’s razor does not back your position.

Wrong. See my earlier posts, I covered it there.

Science does not back your position.

Science backs pretty much any position. For every study that says one thing, there is one that says another.

You have little left to back your position with

Coming from someone who has not even tried to back theirs. One of the reasons I am winning this dispute is that I have provided arguments in my favor, you have staunchly just stated an opinion. You have nothing backing your point, and you clearly know this, because you haven’t even tried.

 

[vz71]

Wrong on sooo many levels. If you like, I can prove that.

It is one thing to claim so.
It is quite another to do it.

Wrong. See my earlier posts, I covered it there.

Yes, I invite anyone to read through those posts.

One of the reasons I am winning this dispute is that I have provided arguments in my favor, you have staunchly just stated an opinion.

So let’s look at one of your arguments…

Science backs pretty much any position.

:ehh:

You have nothing backing your point, and you clearly know this, because you haven’t even tried.

Given the rather incredible piece provided by you “Science backs pretty much any position.” I am uncertain I need to do anything to demonstrate your argument false.

 

[_Gandalf]

It is one thing to claim so.
It is quite another to do it.

Lets start with simple stuff, because it’s usually easier to explain something to someone if they already know the answer.
You said:

“The very fact that you cannot prove your cause to effect tells us that there is no correlation.”

Let’s see… Once upon a time, we didn’t understand why earthquakes happened. Both Pagans and Christians alike pretty much unanimously attributed them, as well as other natural effects, on their respective deities. Now at some point in the past, somebody had an idea that would later be developed into plate tectonics, and would perfectly explain everything. But it was, at some point in time I’m sure, completely unprovable.
As I recall, there was also a German guy (I think he was a doctor) who theorized that the cause of sickness was by microbes - organisms too small to even be seen. Again, at the time it was completely unprovable, but he was absolutely right. The inability to prove something only means that we have not the means to prove it. It does not in any way mean it isn’t correct.

So let’s look at one of your arguments…

And? Do you have any idea how many people have some sort of scientific degree or another? And believe it or not, most of them know how to type. These two combined with people’s desire to get recognized compels them to work on theory after theory after theory. And whereas this is actually a good thing, the problem is that we end up with about a dozen theories for or against any point, and each one is in varying stages of likelihood. Though it is not always the case where there can be only one right answer. Light for instance, does it consist of particles or waves? We can prove and disprove both. Which leads into a completely different discussion really. A fascinating thing - light.

I am uncertain I need to do anything to demonstrate your argument false.

So let me get this right, you have been sitting on your high horse saying that you are right, and asking me to prove my point, and you don’t even want to bother to defend yours? Unless you want to step up to the challenge of actually backing up your words, I think we are done here. You clearly don’t know how to hold a proper debate. Since this is the case, I’ll sum it up for you.
I present my argument > You present your argument > I strengthen my point and tackle yours > You counter my arguments and provide your own > We repeat steps #3 and #4 until we’ve reached a clear end (though in a formal debate it’s actually timed).
As a general rule, that’s how two people go about exchanging ideas. Have you noticed how this is different from what has happened here? I’ve provided my point, and provided defense for my point, but yours is nowhere to be found. Why? Because there isn’t one. You know you are wrong just as well as I do, or if not you at least know you have no proof to say otherwise. I have provided you with my opinion, my argument, and my points. It’s high time you did the same. Unless you choose to do so, there is no point carrying out a redundant conversation.
Either way, I wish you the best of luck in your spiritual journey, and hope that you may open your mind in the future.

 

[vz71]

You clearly don’t know how to hold a proper debate. Since this is the case, I’ll sum it up for you.
I present my argument > You present your argument > I strengthen my point and tackle yours > You counter my arguments and provide your own > We repeat steps #3 and #4 until we’ve reached a clear end (though in a formal debate it’s actually timed).
As a general rule, that’s how two people go about exchanging ideas. Have you noticed how this is different from what has happened here? I’ve provided my point, and provided defense for my point, but yours is nowhere to be found. Why?

Here is why…

Science backs pretty much any position.

And with that, it is demonstrated that you clearly refuse to be bound by reality.
One cannot argue or debate with someone that refuses to see reality.

I stated before in this thread that it is to Satan’s advantage to make certain some miracles happen. It allows him to plant confusion among his followers, as this thread is titled, “Why do Curses of pagans work?” it is apparent that some confusion is already in the works.
And based upon your refusal to accept reality, the confusion has taken root.

 

[_Gandalf]

It was a mistake to mention reality. First of all, nobody really knows what it is. It’s a completely subjective term. With that in mind, I don’t except your reality, that is, the world as you see it. How you interpret the world is very different from how I do, and both of our views are inherently flawed, because we both only have a slight glimpse of the nature of reality. However as a man of science, I do fully except reality, though maybe not the particular interpretation of it that you are using.

I have noticed though that once again you have refused to provide even the slightest argument in your favor. I can’t say I really expected any better, though I also can’t say that I’m not a little disappointed. Unless you choose to remedy that though, this will most likely be my last post; so good day to you. And again, I wish you the best of luck in your spiritual journey.

 

[vz71]

First of all, nobody really knows what it is.

Would not appear to go with this:

I do fully except reality, though maybe not the particular interpretation of it that you are using.

So you are now in the position of advocating science backing any position.
As well as no one knowing what reality is.
As well as your acceptance of reality even though no one knows what it is.

May I make a suggestion…
Stop digging.

 

[Vladd]

So one hears of witchcraft etc. stories and curses. So why or does, a witches curse work?

Also how can the outward form of a oujia board, or horoscope cause a demonic possession?

Is there simply something more to this?

Most Pagans do not use the board unless they are very advanced because he or she can’t tell the difference between One entity from another and could be a imposter posing as another entity ! In fact most Pagans are highly influenced not to work with a board!

 

[Vladd]

Here is why…

And with that, it is demonstrated that you clearly refuse to be bound by reality.
One cannot argue or debate with someone that refuses to see reality.

I stated before in this thread that it is to Satan’s advantage to make certain some miracles happen. It allows him to plant confusion among his followers, as this thread is titled, “Why do Curses of pagans work?” it is apparent that some confusion is already in the works.
And based upon your refusal to accept reality, the confusion has taken root.

Usually if a curse actually works its because he or she has highly empowered his or her souls by the method of advanced meditation and they are a master at astrology because the timing of planets is essential to working magic! Never tried it myself! Don’t plan on it either!!!

 

[Vladd]

And what experience do you have that tells you some piece of magic that you believe you performed was not, in fact, done by Satan?

Obviously there are things done by God (or a servent thereof), things done by Satan (or a servent thereof), and things done by yourself…assuming we are not talking about supernatural events.

I see no problem with acknowledging all of these possibilities.
It is very distorted to believe that only one of those possibilities exists.

I highly doubt he has performed magic that worked unless he is a master in meditation, astrology and programming ones aura then it’s not his magic and if so it was pure luck! To add to this most Pagans don’t know jack from Jill so there is no need to worry!

 

[_Gandalf]

Most Pagans do not use the board…

I would agree with you here. Using a one is like making a phone call to a random number: you never know what is going to be on the other side. Though I’ve heard if you are adept at it it is a little more reliable, however I am not much of a fan of them.

…and they are a master at astrology

Depending on how you define astrology, I would be inclined to disagree. Classical astrology has been proven to be arbitrary, however it would be foolish to suggest that everything else in the universe has no effect on us. Everything from Newtonian physics to quantum physics stipulates that every object with mass in the universe is interconnected with it’s fellows.

To addd to this most Pagans don’t know jack from Jill…

Hehe, unfortunately I do not disagree with the general level of ignorance in the pagan community. However I would venture a guess that the same could be said for most religions. A Catholic friend of mine has quite a lot to say on the level of ignorance with most of her peers. But that is neither here nor there.

However, in your last post you seemed to imply that people are incapable of doing magic of their own accord, is that your view? If so, I must admit that we fundamentally disagree on the mater.

 

[NonServiam]

“Why do Curses of pagans work?”

They don’t – there’s no such thing as magic or anything supernatural.

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

“Why do Curses of pagans work?”

They don’t – there’s no such thing as magic or anything supernatural.

Wrong. Curses and spells work if the victim is in the state of mortal sin.

 

[_Gandalf]

Hey, Buck Crosswhite, your last post has made me think of a question I’d like to through at you. In my experience, curses are actually very rare. For instance, I’ve never actually known someone who uses them. But if a spell was intended to do a good thing instead of something malicious then, in your opinion, would the castee still have to be in a sinfull state for it to work?

The reason I ask is because the logic seems inconsistent. It makes no sense to say that something beneficial would be “blocked”, but if you say it does work then how is the distinction made between boon or burden? Magic is inherently neutral, neither good nor bad. I like using steel as an analogy for magic. Steel is not inherently good or bad, but can be forged into just about anything, and what is forged can be used for just about anything. For instance, blacksmith could forge a candlestick to use as a murder weapon (in the billard room perhaps), and a sword can be used to defend hearth and home. Anyway, I think I’ve drifted off topic. I was wondering how you accounted for the anomaly in your logic.