Why do gays want marriage? What do they hope gain from it?

[InSearchofGrace]

The original question was answered by a number of us. I’m guessing you were looking for something specific?

Bottom line-if you are Catholic, there will never be any such thing as gay marriage. However, there already are, and will likely be more civil gay marriages. You’re going to have to deal with that like you deal with everything else in the world that the Church says is not ok but the secular world says is ok.

Interesting to me-I’ve been gay my whole life and the only time I EVER hear about a “radical gay agenda” is from people who are not gay and are usually borderline hostile towards those who are. Nobody issued it to me with a pair of Birkenstocks and my flannel shirt. For most of us, the “agenda” is pretty much like yours-go to school, get a job, pay your bills,maybe if you’re lucky get a little travel or vacation time in there.

If there is one misconception I would love to eradicate is that gay people are this monolithic block of angry people that all march in lockstep and have some “master plan” to destroy the lives of all the “good people” who do everything right all the time. It’s simply not true and it causes a lot of unnecessary hurt.

In case you are reacting to the linked article by Mr. Bonchamps in American Catholic which I posted, it clearly addresses radical gays who push for legalized same sex marriage and adoption of children, radical gays who make enemies of Christians and Catholics that are against said social experiments. The language is blunt without making excuses for heterosexual wrongdoings.

It is not directed to individual homosexuals like yourself who do not participate in the promotion of the lifestyle that places adult desires over the common good, the secular world approving or not, states sanctioning gay ‘marriage’ or not. You may not have been personally engulfed by the radical gay agenda, but it is is real, driven by influential gays in position of power and wealth in various avenues in society.

Doing nothing, justifying, or enabling the dark forces to enshrine gay ‘marriage’ in law in every state is not being part of the solution to maintain the common social good.

In following the threads and postings of members on this hot topic, I would venture to say that a good many CAF forum members understand that gay people are not all angry and gay-agenda driven. I have a gay close family member who opposes same sex ‘marriage,’ for instance.

Please do not conclude that your personal and spiritual journey is being minimized, or that like-minded homosexuals are demonized with a thoughtless knee-jerk reaction by people who are not gay. It is the direction that our society is going vis a vis gay ‘marriage’ that is being contested here.

Arguments in internet forums are exchanged in relatively free form as no more than text on a computer screen and it is indeed hard to get complete messages across.

Your effort in correcting misconceptions in these threads about homosexuals is appreciated. You are to be commended because you have chosen to walk on the right but more difficult path.

May the Holy Spirit continue to guide you, Seeker.
,

 

[Agatha813]

They probably want it for the same reasons straight couples want to be, but most of them don’t realize the harm it would do for them in the afterlife to continue on living like that. Being homosexual is not a sin, but acting out on those desires are. That’s why I really admire homosexuals that profess their faith and live good and clean lives.

 

[markeverett49]

But if all the American Catholics who support gay marriage left the Church, between that and the scandals, the American Catholic Church would be bankrupt. OTOH, at least it would solve the priest shortage. And it might be very good for the soul of the Church…

You are assuming that that exodus would not include many priests, but I fear that it might! ;o) I’ve heard a priest claim that a “leaner” Church might be a much healthier one. I see the point, but with a large church—any sort of large voluntary group–the levels of commitment will vary and there will be “free riders.” I’m not sure that those American Catholics who think the Church is wrong about same-sex marriage, abortion, contraception, the ordination of women and so on are putting big bucks in the offering plate…

 

[Patavium]

But if all the American Catholics who support gay marriage left the Church, between that and the scandals, the American Catholic Church would be bankrupt.

The teachings of God are not easy to accept. They require us to submit to His Will.

This is not the first time people abandon Jesus Christ because of His teachings (think the people that abandoned Him when He proclaimed that we must eat His flesh and His blood), and it won’t be the last one.

Those that stay should remember the words of the apostles:

Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we have believed and have known, that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.

Domine ad quem ibimus verba vitae aeternae habes et nos credidimus et cognovimus quia tu es Christus Filius Dei

No, the Church CANNOT change its position as it will be contrary to God Himself. Those “catholics” that support gay marriage are already going contrary to God’s Will as it is divinely revealed (Sacred Tradition and Holy Scriptures) in 2000 years of Church history.

 

[Seeker1961]

The teachings of God are not easy to accept. They require us to submit to His Will.

This is not the first time people abandon Jesus Christ because of His teachings (think the people that abandoned Him when He proclaimed that we must eat His flesh and His blood), and it won’t be the last one.

Those that stay should remember the words of the apostles:

No, the Church CANNOT change its position as it will be contrary to God Himself. Those “catholics” that support gay marriage are already going contrary to God’s Will as it is divinely revealed (Sacred Tradition and Holy Scriptures) in 2000 years of Church history.

That’s all fine and good…if you are CATHOLIC. That’s never going to change. That’s the choice we all made to either convert or to continue in the faith of our childhood. It’s tough sometimes, but I think we would all agree that it’s our only choice.

My biggest concern is that we’re charging the wrong hill. We’re not attracting gay people to the faith so their lives can be transformed by God, we’re pushing them away with our language and our anger. ( I’m not thinking in terms of specific people here, just the overall rhetoric surrounding the issue) My return to the Church came from Sisters, Priests and laypeople who approached me with the love of Jesus FIRST, not their condemnation of me or who they thought I was because they knew all about gay people from what they read on the internet and saw on the news coverage of the local Pride parade.

IMHO, the hill we need to charge is the one that brings more people to the understanding that there IS NO OTHER TRUTH.

 

[Patavium]

That’s all fine and good…if you are CATHOLIC. That’s never going to change. That’s the choice we all made to either convert or to continue in the faith of our childhood. It’s tough sometimes, but I think we would all agree that it’s our only choice.

My biggest concern is that we’re charging the wrong hill. We’re not attracting gay people to the faith so their lives can be transformed by God, we’re pushing them away with our language and our anger. ( I’m not thinking in terms of specific people here, just the overall rhetoric surrounding the issue) My return to the Church came from Sisters, Priests and laypeople who approached me with the love of Jesus FIRST, not their condemnation of me or who they thought I was because they knew all about gay people from what they read on the internet and saw on the news coverage of the local Pride parade.

IMHO, the hill we need to charge is the one that brings more people to the understanding that there IS NO OTHER TRUTH.

I am not condemning anyone, or judging them. I am refusing to accept sinful nature, and I am open to debate the reason why homosexual behavior is disordered on all levels even nonreligious.

I have no problem with my brothers and sisters carrying such a heavy cross. I welcome them with open arms. Also, those brothers and sisters that decide to repent and return to the Lord despite of their past homosexual behavior are also welcome.

 

[Seeker1961]

I am not condemning anyone, or judging them. I am refusing to accept sinful nature, and I am open to debate the reason why homosexual behavior is disordered on all levels even nonreligious.

I have no problem with my brothers and sisters carrying such a heavy cross. I welcome them with open arms. Also, those brothers and sisters that decide to repent and return to the Lord despite of their past homosexual behavior are also welcome.

I understand what you’re saying, but I’m inside the Church and I get the nuances of the terms. What an outsider sees is a person standing with folded arms “refusing to accept” them because of their sinful nature, even though we all have that same sinful nature.

I’ve said this before and everyone gets all irritated, but the word “disordered” is not commonly used about other sins that straight people commit. Sins like adultery and divorce might also come under the official definition as “disordered” but let’s all be honest. When was the last time you heard it used other than in a conversation about homosexuality? It’s an off putting word, and we simply don’t use it about sins that a larger percentage of the population is more likely to commit. It may be unconscious, but we don’t want to offend that larger group. That inconsistency, even unconscious, is noticeable to those on the outside. Again, I get it because I’m on the inside, but trust me, it’s not getting across to those on the outside.

I really want more gay people to come inside and I see some of the roadblocks. I had to crawl over them myself and i want to make it easier for them. I want more gay people to find what I’ve found.

 

[Bradski]

I really want more gay people to come inside and I see some of the roadblocks. I had to crawl over them myself and i want to make it easier for them. I want more gay people to find what I’ve found.

You should have a wider audience. It would help. You would help.

 

[Patavium]

I really want more gay people to come inside and I see some of the roadblocks. I had to crawl over them myself and i want to make it easier for them. I want more gay people to find what I’ve found.

This is what I want as well.

God bless you

 

[Seeker1961]

You should have a wider audience. It would help. You would help.

The best any of us can do is affect those God brings into our lives. If one person thinks about how they can better reach a gay person and lead them to Jesus, and then another gay person gets led to Jesus…what more could I ever want?

 

[CopticChristian]

I understand what you’re saying, but I’m inside the Church and I get the nuances of the terms. What an outsider sees is a person standing with folded arms “refusing to accept” them because of their sinful nature, even though we all have that same sinful nature.

I’ve said this before and everyone gets all irritated, but the word “disordered” is not commonly used about other sins that straight people commit. Sins like adultery and divorce might also come under the official definition as “disordered” but let’s all be honest. When was the last time you heard it used other than in a conversation about homosexuality? It’s an off putting word, and we simply don’t use it about sins that a larger percentage of the population is more likely to commit. It may be unconscious, but we don’t want to offend that larger group. That inconsistency, even unconscious, is noticeable to those on the outside. Again, I get it because I’m on the inside, but trust me, it’s not getting across to those on the outside.

I really want more gay people to come inside and I see some of the roadblocks. I had to crawl over them myself and i want to make it easier for them. I want more gay people to find what I’ve found.

Seeker,

I understand your dilema. Here is the dilema that creates the misunderstanding and concern.

Think about any sin, any sin…think about any act that is ordered towards procreation…

Gluttony
Avarice
Pride
etc…

none of these involve the one act that is tied to the union of two people…and for that reason it is the only sin that is disordered towards procreation…

It is what it is and it is the way it is because that is what we do how we do what we do…Ok…

 

[Julia_Mae]

I’ve already answered the original question on a previous post. But since that one is long buried, I’ll say it once more:
Gays want “marriage” because having this right will help them to feel that they are normal.

Why do you believe this? Have you spoken to many gay folks about why they want to marry?

 

[Julia_Mae]

I
Doing nothing, justifying, or enabling the dark forces to enshrine gay ‘marriage’ in law in every state is not being part of the solution to maintain the common social good.
,

See, I think it is. I also think charity and justice demand it. I think it’s the Christian thing to do.

 

[Julia_Mae]

My biggest concern is that we’re charging the wrong hill. We’re not attracting gay people to the faith so their lives can be transformed by God, we’re pushing them away with our language and our anger. ( I’m not thinking in terms of specific people here, just the overall rhetoric surrounding the issue) …

IMHO, the hill we need to charge is the one that brings more people to the understanding that there IS NO OTHER TRUTH.

Precisely. WWJD? We already know: He healed the Roman officer’s servant.

 

[spencelo]

What I am wondering is, why is this such a big deal for homosexuals? What are they trying to accomplish?

What an absurdly insulting question. Would you have asked interracial couples fighting for the legal right to marry why marriage for them was “such a big deal?”

 

[CopticChristian]

What an absurdly insulting question. Would you have asked interracial couples fighting for the legal right to marry why marriage for them was “such a big deal?”

Spence,

Race and behavior are non-sequitors.

 

[spencelo]

Spence,

Race and behavior are non-sequitors.

When two people in a committed relationship desire to get married, but the law denies them the right to do so, do you really have to ask why for them marriage is “such a big deal?” Again, that would be plainly insulting.

 

[CopticChristian]

See, I think it is. I also think charity and justice demand it. I think it’s the Christian thing to do.

Julia,

As a person in their 60’s with a history of some behavioral issues dental problems and a grandmother that was schizphrenic believing that you do not adhere to any book or Church I can understand you now.

Charity is the key. What is Charity?

Faith, Hope and Love…Love/Charity are one and the same…what is it to Love? It is nothing but willing God to another and in doing so Charity demands what you misapropriate…

To will God to another is not to say “hey you want to be gay” and “you want to live in a sinful relationship” well Ok lets be Charitable…because you once said…

To be in the Church, you have to receive the Sacraments. It took Saint Augustine a long time, years, to give up his mistress and his sinful life, even though he believed in Christianity and Jesus

Our job is not to force Catholicism on the world, but to be Christ to it. If we did that, we wouldn’t be able to build churches fast enough to hold the converts.

So to adhere to the real object of Charity, Christ, we cannot approve nor condone, nor promote sin…for we were saved in Faith by grace not of our own so that we must do what it is we are required to do to be like Christ…

and you would do well to evaluate your thinking as it regards what it is you are to do…

I am Catholic. ALL the answers are inside, as Christ lives in me. Also in you. Some people are satisfied with having someone give them answers. They trust the authority of a church or a book. Some find the answers inside, and then supplement their understanding through Church and Book.

Because you and I are not our own Magesterium…and you have asked and know what that means…

To be truly Charitable and Loving you must point out error, you must point out the road to depravity as Paul has said…

26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

  28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them

And you can reason as much as you like, but we are to Reason with Faith and with that you forget that unlike animals…like the monkeys that get together to kill other monkeys in an ordered fashion…unlike animals we can

Self Reflective think…and I suggest you do more of that as you think about what it is you are trying to accomplish…

Shall we sin so that grace may abound…by no means…

 

[Elizabeth502]

What an absurdly insulting question. Would you have asked interracial couples fighting for the legal right to marry why marriage for them was “such a big deal?”

You asked sweetcharity. Sweetcharity would probably say No, as would I, because those interracial couples were not trying to “marry” their own gender, but the opposite one, which is the only possible genuine definition of marriage. Any other “definition” sets up a faux “reality,” substituting fantasy for reality.

 

[Elizabeth502]

WWJD? We already know: He healed the Roman officer’s servant.

Yah.

And healing someone is interchangeable with approving of forbidden sexual relationships – which condemnation Jesus affirmed by embracing the moral code of Torah as a faithful Jew.

Way to reinvent not only Scripture but anthropological history.

It really sounds as if you have a great deal of disapproval of the same orthodox moral code which Jesus embraced and which the Roman Church after Him continued and continues.