Why do I sometimes get called a "fundamentalist" when I say that Jesus will return to judge the world?

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livingwordunity

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Although I’m a convert, I’ve never been a Protestant. How can some Catholics not believe in Jesus’ Second Coming at the end of the world when we profess it at every Mass in the Creed? Just because the End Times has recently become popularly associated with the Protestant “Left Behind” book series and movie doesn’t mean that we should abandon the concept of End Times events and Jesus’ Second Coming. The Catholic Church doesn’t teach that things will happen the exact same way that Protestants do, but we do have our End Times theology. And we are supposed to believe that sooner or later it will happen.
 
In what way are you explaining the eschaton, in those times when you get accused of being ‘fundamentalist’?
 
Gorgias said:
In what way are you explaining the eschaton, in those times when you get accused of being ‘fundamentalist’?
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An example of how I’ve been explaining what I believe can be found in the “End Times - signs” thread in the Sacred Scripture subforum. I’ve never studied what Protestants believe about the End Times. And, as far as I know, I haven’t said anything that contradicts what is taught by the Catholic Church. I know that there are some who give End Times speculation a bad name by trying to say when the year or day will be when Jesus returns. But I have never done this.
 
Perhaps it’s your focus on end-times signs, and trying to fit them to current-day events.

Your desire to identify the ‘whore of Babylon’ is also something that has the feel of a fundamentalist worldview. 🤷

(After all, a literal interpretation of Revelation as predicting purely future events is a bit off-kilter from mainstream Catholic thought…)
 
It is Catholic teaching that Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead, but the reason people probably don’t like associating current events with the end times is that people have been doing that for ages. The Crusades were the end times. The incursion of the Muslims in Europe was the end times. The Reformation was the end times. The Napoleonic War was the end times. World War I was the end times. World War II was the end times. The Cold War was the end times. The decay of the West is the end times. Somebody give me a lawn chair, a ham sandwich, and a cold beer until we finish up with all of these false alarms. Fundamentalists can have a reputation for being theatrical over such things.

What is relevant to our lives is to not delay when the grace of God moves us to repentance, for nobody knows when our hour will come. Jesus tells us to be at the ready with our lanterns, with extra oil prepared in our vigilance.
 
Gorgias said:
Perhaps it’s your focus on end-times signs, and trying to fit them to current-day events.

Your desire to identify the ‘whore of Babylon’ is also something that has the feel of a fundamentalist worldview. 🤷

(After all, a literal interpretation of Revelation as predicting purely future events is a bit off-kilter from mainstream Catholic thought…)
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Fundamentalists believe that the Whore of Babylon is the Catholic Church. If I believed this I wouldn’t be a Catholic. And there’s a difference between Babylon and the Whore of Babylon. My focus was on Babylon and which nation of today I think is most like a modern Babylon. I see no reason why we can’t compare the unprecedented global evil going on today with what was prophesied in the Holy Bible about the global evil of the End Times. We are only told in Sacred Scripture that we can’t speculate on the time when Jesus will return. It doesn’t say that we can’t notice the world events that lead up to the Second Coming.
 
TK421 said:
It is Catholic teaching that Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead, but the reason people probably don’t like associating current events with the end times is that people have been doing that for ages. The Crusades were the end times. The incursion of the Muslims in Europe was the end times. The Reformation was the end times. The Napoleonic War was the end times. World War I was the end times. World War II was the end times. The Cold War was the end times. The decay of the West is the end times. Somebody give me a lawn chair, a ham sandwich, and a cold beer until we finish up with all of these false alarms. Fundamentalists can have a reputation for being theatrical over such things.

What is relevant to our lives is to not delay when the grace of God moves us to repentance, for nobody knows when our hour will come. Jesus tells us to be at the ready with our lanterns, with extra oil prepared in our vigilance.
Click to expand...
Nowhere does it say in our faith that the events that lead up to the Second Coming have to happen all in one day or all in one year. And in fact, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that the last days is the time of the Church (CCC 732). So, that means that from then until now we have been in the last days which means that the events of the End Times can be spread out over this whole time. In Matt. 24, the events are compared to birth-pangs. When a woman experiences these, they start out spread apart and then become more frequent and more intense as the time comes closer. I believe that the Crusades, for example, was one of the End Times events (see my thread about it here). And I believe that the “Black Death” was another event of the End Times. I believe that these events have been adding up over time. An analogy is how an hour glass fills up with sand.

“But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” - 2 Peter 3:8

Now consider the unprecedented things of our age such as so-called same-sex “marriage” laws and it suddenly being accepted by nation after nation. Another is so-called “abortion rights” going global. And no one 100 years ago or more had to worry about the world being destroyed by a nuclear war.
 
livingwordunity said:
Fundamentalists believe that the Whore of Babylon is the Catholic Church. If I believed this I wouldn’t be a Catholic. And there’s a difference between Babylon and the Whore of Babylon. My focus was on Babylon and which nation of today I think is most like a modern Babylon. I see no reason why we can’t compare the unprecedented global evil going on today with what was prophesied in the Holy Bible about the global evil of the End Times. We are only told in Sacred Scripture that we can’t speculate on the time when Jesus will return. It doesn’t say that we can’t notice the world events that lead up to the Second Coming.
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👍👍👍
 
We are certainly in the end times because right is wrong and wrong is right and the Gospel has almost reached all the corners of the earth.

Also, more children have been sacrificed in the last 50 years than all the people that have died in wars combined according to my calculations. Furthermore, the abominations of child sacrifice and homosexual indoctrination are now being forced on poor countries by the US and the UN, thus compromising their sovereignty as predicted in the Bible.

Finally, if we are criticized, accused or defamed for Christ it means we are doing something right. 🙂
 
livingwordunity said:
Nowhere does it say in our faith that the events that lead up to the Second Coming have to happen all in one day or all in one year. And in fact, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that the last days is the time of the Church (CCC 732). So, that means that from then until now we have been in the last days which means that the events of the End Times can be spread out over this whole time. In Matt. 24, the events are compared to birth-pangs. When a woman experiences these, they start out spread apart and then become more frequent and more intense as the time comes closer. I believe that the Crusades, for example, was one of the End Times events (see my thread about it here). And I believe that the “Black Death” was another event of the End Times. I believe that these events have been adding up over time. An analogy is how sand passes through an hour glass and eventually gets full down at the bottom.

“But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” - 2 Peter 3:8

Now consider the unprecedented things of our age such as so-called same-sex “marriage” laws and it suddenly being accepted by nation after nation. Another is so-called “abortion rights” going global. And no one 100 years ago or more had to worry about the world being destroyed by a nuclear war.
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Joie_de_Vivre said:
The Roman Empire was the Whore of Babylon.
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Actually, I think the Roman Empire represented Babylon while “the Whore of Babylon” was first century Jerusalem. But our interpretation of Sacred Scripture should not be limited only to how it applies to the past.The Catechism of the Catholic Church

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: “All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.”

117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
  1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.
  2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.
  3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.
118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses:

The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.​
 
Catolico65 said:
Furthermore, the abominations of child sacrifice and homosexual indoctrination are now being forced on poor countries by the US and the UN
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I had a thought about the UN being like a big dragon with America being the mouth because of its power and the other less powerful nations making up the tail. God wasn’t going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if He could find at least ten who were righteous, so probably the only reason why He has been holding back now is because of the righteous who live in these countries. There seems to be a good number of the righteous, but I think the numbers have been dropping.
 
Back to the subject of this thread. With no negativism about your belief intended; as a social observation, have you given thought that your zeal about this subject may be irritating to your friends and acquaintences and their calling you a Fundamentalist is their way of letting you know they do not agree with you and want to stop?:
 
Probably because you’re trying to interpret things that literally no one but God knows. This is common practice among fundamentalist Christians. Catholics, on the other hand, usually don’t waste time trying to interpret Revelation by applying current events to it.

For a proper way to read Revelation, read The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn, and the Ignatius Study Bible. Stop worrying about the ‘signs’. Only God knows.
 
It’s worse in England now.

To teach your children that not believing in Jesus will send people to Hell is called fundamentalist now.

You can foster children if you are a gay couple but not if you are a Christian. All the Catholic adoption agencies are shut/shutting as they refused to put children with gay couples.
 
TK421 said:
It is Catholic teaching that Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead, but the reason people probably don’t like associating current events with the end times is that people have been doing that for ages. The Crusades were the end times. The incursion of the Muslims in Europe was the end times. The Reformation was the end times. The Napoleonic War was the end times. World War I was the end times. World War II was the end times. The Cold War was the end times. The decay of the West is the end times. Somebody give me a lawn chair, a ham sandwich, and a cold beer until we finish up with all of these false alarms. Fundamentalists can have a reputation for being theatrical over such things.

What is relevant to our lives is to not delay when the grace of God moves us to repentance, for nobody knows when our hour will come. Jesus tells us to be at the ready with our lanterns, with extra oil prepared in our vigilance.
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Well said…Emailing TK a lawn chair, ham sandwich, and cold beer while awaiting
for end times. lol…😃
Mary.
 
George_Stegmeir said:
Back to the subject of this thread. With no negativism about your belief intended; as a social observation, have you given thought that your zeal about this subject may be irritating to your friends and acquaintences and their calling you a Fundamentalist is their way of letting you know they do not agree with you and want to stop?:
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I think that those who are irritated are so probably either because of an unquestioning patriotic zeal, the attitude of “my country right or wrong” or because maybe they agree with the direction the country is going in with abortion and sodomy. The recent polls of Catholics in America suggest the latter or a combination of the two. I’m trying to look at the global situation for what it is instead of with an unrealistic optimism that ignores reality.
 
livingwordunity said:
I’m trying to look at the global situation for what it is instead of with an unrealistic optimism that ignores reality.
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The thing is – and i think this addresses your ‘fundamentalist’ questions precisely – the Catholic approach to Revelation is generally preterist rather than futurist. That being the case, the very attempt to identify the ‘whore of babylon’ or to map the second coming on a timeline of current events… well, it sounds a lot more fundamentalist than it does Catholic. And so, that’s my guess at why you’re getting those charges leveled at you… 🤷
 
livingwordunity said:
I think that those who are irritated are so probably either because of an unquestioning patriotic zeal, the attitude of “my country right or wrong” or because maybe they agree with the direction the country is going in with abortion and sodomy. The recent polls of Catholics in America suggest the latter or a combination of the two. I’m trying to look at the global situation for what it is instead of with an unrealistic optimism that ignores reality.
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You make good points. While it is certainly ok to love one’s country we have a higher calling to love Christ and His church first. Also, we need more people like you to spread the truth so that we aren’t punished like Sodom and Gomorrah.
 
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