Why do JW fear Jesus in scripture

[humble_maid]

Here is a site that will show you how the NWT translator’s changed some of the bible verses to go along with what they teach. They used to use the KJ but I guess then they needed a bible to match their teachings. Scroll down to E.

bible.ca/Jw-NWT.htm

Thank you for these wonderful posts. They are informative.

I would like to introduce myself. I am a devout catholic, especially within the last years. The reason I state this is because I studied with the JW’s on and off for about 10 years. It seems like a lot and believe me it is; I was desperately seeking God and truth through scripture.

I knew no other religion that would teach me at home other than JW’s and LDS(by the way I studied with them as well). I invited my husband’s family member who is a JW to study with me. I began my studies and found some difficulty accepting certain beliefs. This lead me to compare and contrast scripture using my own reasoning and using other religious interpretation; that of the catholic church,of which I have always been a part of, and went further on with LDS.

Rather than making this story long I can only conclude, and I hope I don’t sound smug, that through much deliberation, prayer and studying I discovered the very inconsistencies as mentionned in these posts. This of course led me to finally once and for all accept the catholic dogma and doctrines. With the help of the HS I kindly refused to study unless it was for their conversion and not mine. I haven’t seen much of them since.

I befriended all these people and for the most part we remain very respectful towards eachother, even lovingly I would say. However to that family relative that I studied with she calls me an idolator and heretic among other things. I take it with a grain of salt and sometimes I will debate somewhat, and other times I will simply say,“I love you and may God Bless.”

The thing about sects and cults is that they invest much time in you to convert you. The fraternal love one feels, the acceptance of oneself is so powerful that you forget the initial purpose… to find truth. If I was not as inclined to the HS, I would of become a convert. Thank you Holy Spirit.

Thank you to the sacred hearts of the Blessed Mother and Our Lord Jesus.

 

[sdtouchton]

Isaiah tells us that “he bore our griefs and carried our sorrows; that he was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities; that the chastisement of our peace was laid upon him; that by his stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:4-5). He redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). He was made a sin-offering, and He died in our place, on our account, that He might bring us near to God. It was this, doubtless, which caused His intense sufferings. It was the manifestation of God’s hatred of sin, in some way which He has not explained, that Jesus experienced in that terrible hour. It was suffering endured by Him that was due to us, and suffering by which, and by which alone, we can be saved from eternal death.

In those awful moments, Jesus was expressing His feelings of abandonment as God placed the sins of the world on Him – and because of that had to “turn away” from Jesus. As Jesus was feeling that weight of sin, He was experiencing separation from God for the only time in all of eternity. It was at this time that 2 Corinthians 5:21 occurred, “God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.” Jesus became sin for us, so He felt the loneliness and abandonment that sin always produces, except that in His case, it was not His sin – it was ours.

 

[twb1621]

twb1621,

I can appreciate your frustration. Be of good cheer. Rest in the knowledge that our Lord is truly present in all of the tabernacles all over the world. What Dan doesn’t understand and what Fr. John Corapi so wonderfully and forcefully expounds on is simply “THE TRUTH ISN’T SOMETHING, IT’S SOMEBODY - THE ETERNAL TRUTH, JESUS, THE CHRIST!”

There will always be, sadly, those who want their ears tickled by the likes of Dan. Prayer for their conversion and for our own deeper conversion is necessary here. We, you and me, have to leave the lightning to the Lord. The wheat and weeds will grow together until the final judgment. Let’s just make sure that we are both seeking to do His will and, by His grace, we are fruitful.

Well spoken by Brother… God’s peace

 

[twb1621]

Regardless of who the JW wish to believe Jesus is, not believing Him as “I AM” is eliminating His offer of salvation completely. Jesus in scripture tells us He is God. To say He is a mini god, a prophet but not God, or the son of God but nothing more than a human, is to say He deceived through lies in scripture. To say He is a mini or small god is to acknowledge more than one God in itself, regardless. In taking such a position a Jw bearing such a belief expresses the falsehood of their own “faith” as they then acknowledge they are honoring someone who is deceitful and obviously could not be of God at all. Even to compare Jesus in the same light as Saint Michael is to suggest the same disbeliefs and claim righteousness through honoring a prophet they founded in deceit. With this realized, there can be no question as to the fraudulent nature of a “faith” such as the JW practice.

 

[Tomster]

Regardless of who the JW wish to believe Jesus is, not believing Him as “I AM” is eliminating His offer of salvation completely. Jesus in scripture tells us He is God. To say He is a mini god, a prophet but not God, or the son of God but nothing more than a human, is to say He deceived through lies in scripture. To say He is a mini or small god is to acknowledge more than one God in itself, regardless. In taking such a position a Jw bearing such a belief expresses the falsehood of their own “faith” as they then acknowledge they are honoring someone who is deceitful and obviously could not be of God at all. Even to compare Jesus in the same light as Saint Michael is to suggest the same disbeliefs and claim righteousness through honoring a prophet they founded in deceit. With this realized, there can be no question as to the fraudulent nature of a “faith” such as the JW practice.

twbster,

Quite honestly, I know of no one on these discussion boards who ever confronted Dan with the fact that only God could have atoned for our sins. All of the sacrifices of the OT could not do it. Man alone could not do it. Only the God-Man could.

Since every sin is an infinite trangression against the infinite God, finite man is incapable of atoning for sin, hence the Incarnation. Such is God’s infinite love for us.

 

[Tomster]

Thank you for these wonderful posts. They are informative.

I would like to introduce myself. I am a devout catholic, especially within the last years. The reason I state this is because I studied with the JW’s on and off for about 10 years. It seems like a lot and believe me it is; I was desperately seeking God and truth through scripture.

I knew no other religion that would teach me at home other than JW’s and LDS(by the way I studied with them as well). I invited my husband’s family member who is a JW to study with me. I began my studies and found some difficulty accepting certain beliefs. This lead me to compare and contrast scripture using my own reasoning and using other religious interpretation; that of the catholic church,of which I have always been a part of, and went further on with LDS.

Rather than making this story long I can only conclude, and I hope I don’t sound smug, that through much deliberation, prayer and studying I discovered the very inconsistencies as mentionned in these posts. This of course led me to finally once and for all accept the catholic dogma and doctrines. With the help of the HS I kindly refused to study unless it was for their conversion and not mine. I haven’t seen much of them since.

I befriended all these people and for the most part we remain very respectful towards eachother, even lovingly I would say. However to that family relative that I studied with she calls me an idolator and heretic among other things. I take it with a grain of salt and sometimes I will debate somewhat, and other times I will simply say,“I love you and may God Bless.”

The thing about sects and cults is that they invest much time in you to convert you. The fraternal love one feels, the acceptance of oneself is so powerful that you forget the initial purpose… to find truth. If I was not as inclined to the HS, I would of become a convert. Thank you Holy Spirit.

Thank you to the sacred hearts of the Blessed Mother and Our Lord Jesus.

humble maid,

Thank you for your testimony. Jesus promised us that He would another Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, to bring us to all Truth.

It’s so sad to see the JW’S deny and run away from the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity. It does explain why their teachings are in shambles though.

See posts #1 and #2 on this thread.

 

[humble_maid]

Greetings,

I would like to open a discussion on JW belief in the resurrection or lack of it.

JW say that after Jesus’s death His body remained here while His spirit went to Heaven. Jesus was the firstfruits of the dead which we all know, including the JW, this refers to the resurrection which is when the bodies of the dead will be made alive again. So how could the JW maintain they believe in a resurrection if His body remained here?

 

[Tomster]

Greetings,

I already posted in this thread but can someone, Dan included, explain why JW don’t believe in the resurrection? They say that after Jesus’s death His body remained here while His spirit went to Heaven. Jesus was the firstfruits of the dead which we all know, including the JW, this refers to the resurrection which is when the bodies of the dead will be made alive again. So how could the JW believe in a resurrection if His body remained here?
Should I start a new thread for this?

humble maid,

I am not a moderator. It’s not for me to say whether you should start a new thread. But, in my opinion, it’s okay with me to discuss the matter here.

 

[humble_maid]

humble maid,

I am not a moderator. It’s not for me to say whether you should start a new thread. But, in my opinion, it’s okay with me to discuss the matter here.

I was editing my post when you answered me. Nevertheless thank you, I should like to discuss this topic with you and any JW member( I didn’t get to cover much about this topic when I was their student).

God Bless.

 

[twb1621]

I was editing my post when you answered me. Nevertheless thank you, I should like to discuss this topic with you and any JW member( I didn’t get to cover much about this topic when I was their student).

God Bless.

It would certainly be worth the effort toward clearing things that distort the truth. Those with knowledge in other beliefs are beneficial to those who fall to the distortions.

 

[mackbrislawn]

twbster,

Quite honestly, I know of no one on these discussion boards who ever confronted Dan with the fact that only God could have atoned for our sins. All of the sacrifices of the OT could not do it. Man alone could not do it. Only the God-Man could.

Since every sin is an infinite trangression against the infinite God, finite man is incapable of atoning for sin, hence the Incarnation. Such is God’s infinite love for us.

Indeed, only God could have atoned for our sins.

Therefore, JW’s don’t believe that Jesus did. What He did, instead, was pay the corresponding ransom for Adam’s sin. The perfect man Jesus for the perfect man Adam.

 

[JeanneH]

Greetings,

I would like to open a discussion on JW belief in the resurrection or lack of it.

JW say that after Jesus’s death His body remained here while His spirit went to Heaven. Jesus was the firstfruits of the dead which we all know, including the JW, this refers to the resurrection which is when the bodies of the dead will be made alive again. So how could the JW maintain they believe in a resurrection if His body remained here?

In spite of John 2:19, the JW’s believe that only Jesus spirit was resurrected into heaven and they use 1Peter3:18 as a proof text. They believe that when Jesus appeared to his disciples the body he used was not his own but a manufactured one. Now Jesus himself tells us that he will be resurrected in his own body. So go figure.
I would like to hear from a JW on this
Jeanne

 

[FCEGM]

twbster,

Quite honestly, I know of no one on these discussion boards who ever confronted Dan with the fact that only God could have atoned for our sins. All of the sacrifices of the OT could not do it. Man alone could not do it. Only the God-Man could.

Since every sin is an infinite trangression against the infinite God, finite man is incapable of atoning for sin, hence the Incarnation. Such is God’s infinite love for us.

Precisely, Tom. And what justice would it have been for God to send a surrogate to atone for the sins against Himself?

 

[Dan_Parker]

In spite of John 2:19, the JW’s believe that only Jesus spirit was resurrected into heaven and they use 1Peter3:18 as a proof text. They believe that when Jesus appeared to his disciples the body he used was not his own but a manufactured one. Now Jesus himself tells us that he will be resurrected in his own body. So go figure.
I would like to hear from a JW on this
Jeanne

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that the word SWMA (body) here is the body of Christ as in the elect in him.
NAB John 2:21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body.

Compare with 1Co 3:16:
NAB 1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

 

[Dan_Parker]

Precisely, Tom. And what justice would it have been for God to send a surrogate to atone for the sins against Himself?

A good read on this is Romans 5. What is the scriptural evidence for your view?

 

[SimonArizona]

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that the word SWMA (body) here is the body of Christ as in the elect in him.
NAB John 2:21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body.

Compare with 1Co 3:16:
NAB 1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Of all non-Catholic faiths, JW’s are the most interesting to me. How can the Father ever at one time existed without his Word? How can the Father ever have existed without his Knowledge and Wisdom, from which he brought forth all things created?

 

[Dan_Parker]

Of all non-Catholic faiths, JW’s are the most interesting to me. How can the Father ever at one time existed without his Word? How can the Father ever have existed without his Knowledge and Wisdom, from which he brought forth all things created?

Search my posts on Proverbs 8:22 and you will get the answer to your question on Wisdom.

 

[SimonArizona]

Search my posts on Proverbs 8:22 and you will get the answer to your question on Wisdom.

ok but this was a two part question. How can the Father exist at one time without his Word?

If you are referring to how Wisdom says the Father created her, how can the Father create anything without Wisdom, including Wisdom itself?

 

[Dan_Parker]

ok but this was a two part question. How can the Father exist at one time without his Word?

If you are referring to how Wisdom says the Father created her, how can the Father create anything without Wisdom, including Wisdom itself?

My post on Proverbs 8:22 answers that in depth for Wisdom. As for the Word (LOGOS) I believe you equivocate on those terms, perhaps unintentionally. Would you mind giving the passage or passages you have in mind when you refer to “his Word”?

Here is the post.

 

[SimonArizona]

My post on Proverbs 8:22 answers that in depth for Wisdom. As for the Word (LOGOS) I believe you equivocate on those terms, perhaps unintentionally. Would you mind giving the passage or passages you have in mind when you refer to “his Word”?

Here is the post.

“Possessed me” qanah to possess, create, to own, to be-get.

If the author specifically meant “create” he would have used the word bara to create.