Why do liberals act like they can't live without contraception and abortions?

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thewanderer said:
I think the question becomes legitimate though when you have **people pushing for free contraception to absolutely everyone while not caring about making them pay for other important medications. Why contraception? Why is it so darned important that *contraception ***be free? I get people freaking out at the idea of making contraception illegal, but I really don’t understand the push to make sure everyone has free access to it. 🤷
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This to me was the real question, and I agree with another poster who said it all backs up to the desire for sex to be absolutely 100% available and consequence-free. I think the deeper question is when and why did sex come to be seen as absolutely vital to a person’s well-being, such that free and consequence-free sex is regarded nearly as a necessity?

And conservatives going nuts about laws against smoking?? I haven’t seen that.
 
Rence said:
No, they would be adopting a child. For every couple needing to adopt, there’s at least one child waiting to be adopted.
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So it would only be logical to kill the child whos waiting to be adopted?
 
BlueEyedLady said:
Why not what? We have a very, very broken adoption system. There are plenty of kids who need homes, plenty of families that want to give them homes, but because of the bureaucracy it takes years and tens of thousands of dollars, sometimes more, to adopt. Sadly, many times it is just cheaper and faster to adopt internationally.
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Plus, white parents don’t want to adopt black kids.

Asian kids- OK. Hispanic kids- yeah alright. Black kids- OOOHHH no, sorry. 😦
 
pete_29 said:
I see abortion as murder. Murder is illegal. If I am against you being murdered, how can I not be against an unborn child being murdered and how can I be against legislation that would make either one of your murders illegal?
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Exactly. YOU see it as murder, being guided by your religious values; but not every religion sees it as such in all cases: for example, Judaism, Quakerism, perhaps Hinduism. YOU most likely see contraception as immoral in all cases; Judaism makes distinctions. We live in a pluralistic society in America, with many different religious beliefs concerning several hot-button social and political issues.
 
fnr said:
First, this question is worded in such an inflammatory way as to produce more heat than light in this thread.

Second, I’m a liberal, but I certainly don’t act as though having the pill and abortions is more important than having air or food. In fact, I don’t know anyone of any political stripe that says that, though I understand your hyperbole.

Third, no one in political discourse talks about the real issue: sexual behavior. The left puts it in terms of “reproductive freedom.” The right is now come lately to the “religious freedom” argument. But fundamentally, the political issue is whether the government has the legitimate authority:
(a) to regulate how a woman may manage her fertility – meaning the likelihood of conception,
(b) to compel employers to pay for insurance policies that allow a woman to manage her fertility in all possible ways (e.g., abstinence, NFP, artificial contraception) without making demands on her sexual behavior, and
(c) to prevent a woman from terminating a pregnancy for any reason (which includes the use of abortion as an insurance policy against both failed management of fertility and rape).

(a) pertains to what the government used to do: outlawing artificial contraception;
(b) pertains to the DHHS mandate;
(c) pertains to abortion regulation.

On the issue of “the pill” and contraception, one notable research finding is that under the present cultural mores, education programs involving “comprehensive sex education” are effective at reducing the rate of STD infection and seem to reduce the onset of sexual behavior in teens. Abstinence-only policies are ineffective, largely because they attempt to use a school or government program to counteract cultural trends.

There is an unwillingness to talk about sexual behavior. Most people would like to feel that their frequency and timing of sexual activity is a matter of personal choice. Using artificial contraception enables that freedom.
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People are far less rational about sex than you seem to think. In any case, is it reasonable to think that women ought to be as free to have sex as man? I recall something my psychology teacher told our class way back in the mid’50s. * A man loves with his penis; a woman with her whole body. *Her whole rhythm is built around her “periods.” She is made to create life, sand to nurture it through a long pregnancy, and then many years after birth. Of course she is not absolutely required to do this. She can choose to be single, choose even in the context of a
“marriage,” But her sexual yearnings are still based on what her body tells us. And it will not tell her what a man’s body tells him.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
What’s the point of breathing at eating if you don’t have freedom and autonomy when it comes to your own body?

And you’re worried about liberals and the pill? Have you noticed how nuts conservatives get when restrictions on smoking are put in place? And smoking causes all sorts of health problems, even in people who don’t smoke but are around it.

And the pill-cancer link is highly debated in the medical community.
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Birth contra pill has been grouped as a class 1 carcinogen with tobacco and asbestos by arm of the World Health Organisation, International agency for research on cancer

monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Preamble/Preamble-IntReport.pdf

apps.who.int/bookorders/anglais/detart1.jsp?sesslan=1&codlan=1&codcol=75&codcch=405

I suspect if you asked majority of women who took the pill whether they knew about this they would not know because doctors and other providers that give out the pill are not telling them, perhaps they do not even know themselves
 
_Abyssinia said:
I suspect if you asked majority of women who took the pill whether they knew about this they would not know because doctors and other providers that give out the pill are not telling them, perhaps they do not even know themselves
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Yes, Using Contraceptives is against Catholic morality and is sinful, but please don’t present misinformation. Please rely on the Churches true reasonings not on trumped up charges.

Contraceptives have side effects commiserate with many other medications.

Why do you feel that doctors aren’t telling patients the information you present? Do you believe they have an “agenda” to have women on birth control?
 
Rence said:
No, they would be adopting a child. For every couple needing to adopt, there’s at least one child waiting to be adopted.
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What I meant is that if a couple adopted the unwanted child, the child would not be a ward of the state and the couple adopting would be taking care of the baby (including any financial neccessities) That’s what I meant about footing the bill

I understand that foreign adoption is common because many adoptive parents want to adopt a newborn/infant. Many infants are not available in the US for adoption because of two reasons – abortion and once the child is born moms often try to raise them as single moms.

Statitically before Roe v Wade, more babies were available for adoption and there were fewer single mothers.

As for the children in foster care, they often are not available for adoption. The goal for many of those children is to be reunited with their parents. The child is not available for adoption UNTIL parental rights are severed with the biological parent. Often these children end up placed with another family member who can competently care for these children.

There are entire law practices that deal with family law, and especially grandparents seeking custody/ adoption of grandchildren,

The actual legal process of adoption is actually not difficult once the child is available for adoption (placed with a family, parental rights severed). Grandparents adopt often enough, as do spouses who marry a person with children.
 
meltzerboy said:
Exactly. YOU see it as murder, being guided by your religious values; but not every religion sees it as such in all cases: for example, Judaism, Quakerism, perhaps Hinduism. YOU most likely see contraception as immoral in all cases; Judaism makes distinctions. We live in a pluralistic society in America, with many different religious beliefs concerning several hot-button social and political issues.
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So, should I give up my views because others don’t think the same way I do? If I and people who think like me do someday happen to have abortion made illegal, would you be OK with that?
 
pete_29 said:
So, should I give up my views because others don’t think the same way I do? If I and people who think like me do someday happen to have abortion made illegal, would you be OK with that?
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No, I’m not asking you to give up your views (that would be arrogant), but to recognize there are others who have different views based on their religious or secular moral ideologies. I would have to follow the law but would not be OK with it and would try to have it reversed.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
Exactly. YOU see it as murder, being guided by your religious values; but not every religion sees it as such in all cases: for example, Judaism, Quakerism, perhaps Hinduism. YOU most likely see contraception as immoral in all cases; Judaism makes distinctions. We live in a pluralistic society in America, with many different religious beliefs concerning several hot-button social and political issues.

So, should I give up my views because others don’t think the same way I do? If I and people who think like me do someday happen to have abortion made illegal, would you be OK with that?
pete_29 said:
So, should I give up my views because others don’t think the same way I do? If I and people who think like me do someday happen to have abortion made illegal, would you be OK with that?
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I don’t know Jewish moral theology on the topic of abortion, but I do know at least one prominent Jew who is pro-life. Nat Hentoff, who writes for the Jewish World Review, has been pro-life for a very long time. He describes himself, I think, as a pro-life, Jewish, liberal, atheist, and has attended pro-life events, while disagreeing with many participants on most issues, except that of being anti-abortion.
 
meltzerboy said:
No, I’m not asking you to give up your views (that would be arrogant), but to recognize there are others who have different views based on their religious or secular moral ideologies. I would have to follow the law but would not be OK with it and would try to have it reversed.
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and I will always be against you in this matter. It’s not so much religious as it is personal. 😦
 
JimG said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
Exactly. YOU see it as murder, being guided by your religious values; but not every religion sees it as such in all cases: for example, Judaism, Quakerism, perhaps Hinduism. YOU most likely see contraception as immoral in all cases; Judaism makes distinctions. We live in a pluralistic society in America, with many different religious beliefs concerning several hot-button social and political issues.

So, should I give up my views because others don’t think the same way I do? If I and people who think like me do someday happen to have abortion made illegal, would you be OK with that?
I don’t know Jewish moral theology on the topic of abortion, but I do know at least one prominent Jew who is pro-life. Nat Hentoff, who writes for the Jewish World Review, has been pro-life for a very long time. He describes himself, I think, as a pro-life, Jewish, liberal, atheist, and has attended pro-life events, while disagreeing with many participants on most issues, except that of being anti-abortion.
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Jews are notorious for being on all different sides of every issue, whether political or religious. Yet somehow we all get along…well, usually.
 
meltzerboy said:
I’m sorry about that, Pete. I’d rather our differences be religious than personal, especially since we don’t really know each other.
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I meant that my opposition to abortion is personal. Please excuse me, communicating my thoughts were never my strong point.
 
I could say the same about right-wing folk when it comes to homosexuality, or their view of contraception. Why does it matter what others are doing in the bedroom?

I can see why you have an issue with abortion, though. I’m rather undecided on the abortion issue, but I guess I’m leaning towards being pro-choice. I don’t see why you’d want to outlaw contraception, however. If it’s against your religious views, then don’t use it. That’s all I can say. 🤷
 
livingwordunity said:
It seems like they think having the pill and abortions is more important than having air to breathe or food to eat. I don’t know why they cling to this so much especially since the pill causes an increased risk for cancer in women.
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Because when one’s focus is only on themselves, God’s plan for fertility and life is obsolete
 
LaMusicaSenior said:
Because when one’s focus is only on themselves, God’s plan for fertility and life is obsolete
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Hm. The thing is, if you don’t believe in a God then the whole idea of contraception is no longer selfish. The way you phrased this seems to me that you believe that “liberals” are simply using contraception to annoy God, but you’d forget that most people using may not believe in God (or, at least, not your God). The fact is that contraception doesn’t hurt anyone other than your God, a being that I don’t even believe exists, so I therefore fail to see how it’s selfish.
 
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