Why do lutherans call themselves evangelical catholics?

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I’m a long time advocate of using Catholic (with a capital C and without a qualifier) on this forum to mean only those of us who are in communion with Rome … but the thing that surprises me is that the attitude of most Protestant posters is not so much “OK, we may not like it but well do it when we’re on CAF” but rather “Well that’s how we would use ‘Catholic’ anyhow.”

So I guess the question is, does accommodating at some point become too accommodating? (Like when a protestant says “Are you Catholic or Christian?” and a Catholic answers “Catholic” without the slightest complaint.)
 
Maybe we should answer Catholic Christian, but I think Catholic should be sufficient.

After I converted I realized how Catholicism and being a protestant are
reallly so different. Having the Pope and the Magisterium are very important in my opinion.
 
steido01 said:
Sure thing! And thank you for asking so charitably. I don’t expect you to share our views, but hopefully I can help explain why we hold them. I’ll reference Lutheran documents so you know I’m not imposing my own views.

We are one with other Christians in a visible means through the Preaching of the Word and the Administration of the Sacraments - namely, that we are all made part of the one, true church through Baptism. (Article VII, Confessio Augustana)

All Lutherans practice ordination of their pastors with the laying on of hands by the surrounding ordained pastors, and in this way, preserve Apostolic teaching. For Lutherans, it’s more than just “who tagged whom;” it’s also about maintaining the right teaching. No Lutheran has ever woken up and said, “Gee, I’m going to go be a pastor.” It doesn’t work that way. While Roman Catholics may view our ordinations to be invalid due to intent (and/or form), we know that our pastors are validly ordained. And that’s good enough for us. (Articles XIV and XXVIII, Confessio Augustana)
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As a fellow Lutheran, I think what you write only represents 10% of worldwide Lutherans. For example, most Lutheran priests are ordained by a bishop in apostolic succession. Also and regrettably so-called “confessional Lutherans” [WELC and LCMS] seem to be more likely to adopt Protestant-type worship . I don’t think there is any doubt that European Lutherans [Church of Finland/ Sweden/ Norway etc.] are the most ‘catholic’ in worship and governance. This is where the Missouri Synod has a bit of catching up to do, in my opinion.
 
7_Sorrows said:
Maybe we should answer Catholic Christian, but I think Catholic should be sufficient.

After I converted I realized how Catholicism and being a protestant are
reallly so different. Having the Pope and the Magisterium are very important in my opinion.
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One must qualify “protestant” to come to that conclusion. Both Lutheran Confessions and Dialogue/ Declaration with Catholics accept the papacy [if not in conflict with the Holy Gospel] and even supremacy of the Bishop of Rome. Even the Magisterium can be embraced by Lutherans.
 
So lutherans believe their priests have valid holy orders following apostolic procession from the original apostles?
 
7_Sorrows said:
So lutherans believe their priests have valid holy orders following apostolic procession from the original apostles?
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Yes and so does the Catholic Church:
. This is true above all in regard to the specific formation of the ecclesial ministry of leadership (episkop�). The development of the ministry into an episcopate standing in a historic succession, i.e., the continuity of apostolic succession which occurred already very early in history250 was fully affirmed by the Lutheran Reformation and emphatically championed251 just as other church realities were affirmed and conserved which had come into being in the course of history (e.g. the biblical canon, the creeds of the ancient church). For Lutheran thinking too it is entirely possible to acknowledge that the historical development of an episcopate in a historic succession was not something purely within the sphere of history, set in motion only by sociological and political factors, but that it “has taken place with the help of the Holy Spirit” and that it “constitutes something essential for the church”.252
prounione.urbe.it/dia-int/l-rc/doc/e_l-rc_church4.html#4.2
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  1. The Roman Catholic Church has preserved the succession of episcopal consecrations; this succession was broken in continental Lutheranism, maintained in parts of Nordic Lutheranism, and has been reclaimed by the ELCA. What is the significance of either preserving or breaking this succession? That question must not be isolated and made to bear the entire weight of a judgment on a church’s ministry. Whether a particular minister or church serves the church’s apostolic mission does not depend only upon the presence of such a succession of episcopal consecrations, as if its absence would negate the apostolicity of the church’s teaching and mission.135 Recent ecumenical discussions of episcopacy and succession do not remove our former disagreements, but they do place them in a richer and more complex context in which judgments made exclusively on the basis of the presence or absence of a succession of consecrations are less possible.
    usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/koinonia-of-salvation.cfm
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EvangelCatholic said:
One must qualify “protestant” to come to that conclusion. Both Lutheran Confessions and Dialogue/ Declaration with Catholics accept the papacy [if not in conflict with the Holy Gospel] and even supremacy of the Bishop of Rome. Even the Magisterium can be embraced by Lutherans.
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If that is the case why not become Catholic?
Accepting and embracing is wonderful but what stops one from committing to belong to the Church and following the doctrines and dogmas?
 
7_Sorrows said:
And what might you be Peter J?

What is Non Non-Catholic if I may ask?
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Oh, I’ll grant there is a shorter way to say it than “non Non-Catholic”, but I thought I’d make people use their brains and work it out for themselves. :cool: Especially since I spend more time on the “Non-Catholic Religions Forum” than any other CA forum. (But if you really want I’ll tell you in a pm. ;))
 
Peter_J said:
Oh, I’ll grant there is a shorter way to say it than “non Non-Catholic”, but I thought I’d make people use their brains and work it out for themselves. :cool:
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I wasn’t sure if the double non was telling people that you definitely aren’t Catholic or if you are! 😃
 
7_Sorrows said:
Thank all of you who answered my post that are lutherans.

The episcopal church and anglican communion have 5 sacraments and I thought the anglican communion was the second largest body of christians after the catholic church and maybe the orthodox but perhaps those statistics are no longer valid.
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It would depend on which Episcopalian you asked. As GKC is fond of saying they are a ‘motley crew’.

Some Episcopalians would say there are only two.
Others would insist there are two major sacraments, Baptism and Holy Eucharist. And their are five minor sacraments, the other five.
And yet others would say their are seven, same as the Catholic Church.
 
andrewstx said:
It would depend on which Episcopalian you asked. As GKC is fond of saying they are a ‘motley crew’.

Some Episcopalians would say there are only two.
Others would insist there are two major sacraments, Baptism and Holy Eucharist. And their are five minor sacraments, the other five.
And yet others would say their are seven, same as the Catholic Church.
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I always understood there were 5.
 
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