Why do most Non-Catholic Christians always claim that the Catholic Church makes error

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I just don’t think its possible on a group-by-group basis. Jesus said so himself. These difficulties can only be overcome with one-on-one witnessing.

However, if you look at the hatred the CC has endured, its very hard to deny that every new group wants to be the big dog. But there’s only one.
  • Islam
  • Orthodoxy
  • Protestantism and Anglicanism
  • Mormonism
  • Secularism
    They all take shots at the CC. They all agree that the CC has lost its way, but that’s all they can agree on.
I will not be surprised to see some of the more hostile Protestants side with Islam as Islam continues their attacks on the Church.

Its a fact that Islamic extremists have Rome in its crosshairs.
Have you forgotten the Christians of the Middle East who have been more than crosshairs for over a thousand years? What about the Russians who have been under tyrant after tyrant? Besides, your argument could be used by any of the other groups you listed. Muslims could say that all the others hate them, the Orthodox have proof, the Protestants aswell…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
Have you forgotten the Christians of the Middle East who have been more than crosshairs for over a thousand years? What about the Russians who have been under tyrant after tyrant? Besides, your argument could be used by any of the other groups you listed. Muslims could say that all the others hate them, the Orthodox have proof, the Protestants aswell…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
To a radical Muslim, it makes very little difference, whether Catholic, Orthodox or protestant - an infidel is an infidel; a “cross worshipper” is a “cross worshipper.”
 
The argument of the Orthodox being divided is not correct. I would direct you to plenty of threads on this topic, but they have been deleted. If your argument for Catholicism being the true faith is based on this, then I’m afraid you’ll need more…I also believe you’ll find many more Catholics using contraception than Orthodox, but that is just my opinion…🤷

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
They are divided in authority. I often read articles the Patriarch of Constantinople and Patriarch of Moscow are always at each others neck, especially with the talks in Ravenna, Italy.

Catholics using contraception is morally wrong. They are going against the teaching of the Magisterium. What I meant was that in Catholicism, the faith itself is united, the teachings… That is what is essential.
 
Have you forgotten the Christians of the Middle East who have been more than crosshairs for over a thousand years? What about the Russians who have been under tyrant after tyrant? Besides, your argument could be used by any of the other groups you listed. Muslims could say that all the others hate them, the Orthodox have proof, the Protestants aswell…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
I see your point about Orthodoxy and Catholicism. It’s a toss-up as to who’s the original. All the others are based on the supposed errors of Orthodoxy/Catholicism, at least partially.
 
They are divided in authority. I often read articles the Patriarch of Constantinople and Patriarch of Moscow are always at each others neck, especially with the talks in Ravenna, Italy.

Catholics using contraception is morally wrong. They are going against the teaching of the Magisterium. What I meant was that in Catholicism, the faith itself is united, the teachings… That is what is essential.
In words this is true but in actions, it is not.
 
They are divided in authority. I often read articles the Patriarch of Constantinople and Patriarch of Moscow are always at each others neck, especially with the talks in Ravenna, Italy.

Catholics using contraception is morally wrong. They are going against the teaching of the Magisterium. What I meant was that in Catholicism, the faith itself is united, the teachings… That is what is essential.
No, they are not divided in authority. The issue is about jurisdictions. For instance, the Estonian Church, which is autonomous (?) under Constantinople. Moscow claims that this is part of the Russian Orthodox Church and not subject to autonomy. There is not any faith divisions or rejection of the others authority as a bishop, but rather who has jurisdiction over Estonia. As for Rome, the hierarchy is together based on the Pope, but the faith is not so. Atleast, one has to come to that conclusion between Latin and Eastern Catholics…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
No, they are not divided in authority. The issue is about jurisdictions. For instance, the Estonian Church, which is autonomous (?) under Constantinople. Moscow claims that this is part of the Russian Orthodox Church and not subject to autonomy. There is not any faith divisions or rejection of the others authority as a bishop, but rather who has jurisdiction over Estonia. As for Rome, the hierarchy is together based on the Pope, but the faith is not so. Atleast, one has to come to that conclusion between Latin and Eastern Catholics…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
So if they differ in who whose jurisdiction. I just wish they do settle the issue on who has authority over Estonia.
 
Many hate our church because all they hear is power and money on the news and their church. They disregard the faith because of what they hear. Some make a simple thing like a few priests abusing the call and say the whole church is full of molestation. Now granted this not true for all Protestants.
 
Many hate our church because all they hear is power and money on the news and their church. They disregard the faith because of what they hear. Some make a simple thing like a few priests abusing the call and say the whole church is full of molestation. Now granted this not true for all Protestants.
The Church can ‘police’ itself better because of a magisterial authority. Protestant churches are usually self-regulating entities and it is more difficult to hold anyone accountable for what they do.
 
Why do most Non-Catholic Christians always claim that the Catholic Church makes error when it does not? While we Catholics don’t openly attack their own faith, but they do.

Catholics here and Catholic Apologetics have refuted any error they claim through the use of Scripture, ECF writings, and tradition. Yet they still insist we do. It’s like they are blind nor hard of hearing.

Most of the ones I know who claim this are completely ignorant of the Catholic Church and many of them completely misunderstood the CC’s doctrines and practices.

I do know there are Non-Catholic Christians who are open minded and don’t go around telling Catholics, “That is a bread you are worshipping… You are breaking God’s Commandment.”

For once I want to them to be open minded and understand our faith rather than attack us.
Hmmm, I have a copy of the Cathechism of the Catholic Church and understand it pretty well. I grew up in a very Catholic town (more Catholics than Protestants). I think I understand it pretty well.

Does your definition of “open-minded” mean “compliant” and “non-confrontational”? So if I just let a blind man fall off a cliff without warning him would that be called “open minded” or just plain irresponsible and uncaring?
 
Many hate our church because all they hear is power and money on the news and their church. They disregard the faith because of what they hear. Some make a simple thing **like a few priests **abusing the call and say the whole church is full of molestation. Now granted this not true for all Protestants.
A FEW priests??? A FEW PRIESTS!!! You must be joking!!! The Los Angeles Archdiocese alone had to pay out $660 million dollars to over 500 victims of priest sexual abuse!

I lived in Europe for several years, the staggering amount of abuse I heard of in Austria alone. Catholic seminaries having porn parties with young boys in attendance, etc.

Wake up and smell coffee!
 
Well that does not make the whole church bad. I’m sorry that some abuse the call. Now tell me. Do you judge the church because of that.
 
Well that does not make the whole church bad. I’m sorry that some abuse the call. Now tell me. Do you judge the church because of that.
A smattering of sins and indiscretions are human but when you have centuries of this type of thing happening on a large scale by the very men who claim to represent faith and morals to the laity makes me want to puke! Yes, I judge the church because of that!

About the blemishes in church history and the Catholic church’s assertion that there are both sinners and saints in the church. I agree, except that the guy running the church should be held to the standard of Scripture

1Ti 3:7 **And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. **1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,
1Ti 3:9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if **they are beyond reproach. **

Let’s take a walk down memory lane shall we…

6 popes were actually installed by a pair of mother and daughter prostitutes: Theodora of Rome and her daughter Marozia who was the mistress of Pope Sergius III. After Sergius’ death came her other two damnable choices of Anastasius III (911-913) and Lando (913-914). This period is known in history as “The Rule of the Harlots.” History is full of sayings from these “holy” men such as: “The holiest hermit has his whore” and “Rome has more prostitutes than any other city because she has more celibates”

Pope John XII (955-963) was so involved in illicit sex that even though he had many mistresses it was known that it was no longer safe for a woman to visit St. Peter’s church in Rome!

A Catholic church historian Von Dollinger wrote: "the Roman church was enslaved and degraded with the Apostolic See (the Papal throne) became the prey and the plaything of rival factions of the nobles, and for a long time of ambitious and profligate women. It was only renovated for a brief interval (997-1003) in the persons of Gregory V and Silvester II, by the influence of the Saxon emperor.

Then the papacy sank back into the utter confusion and moral impotence; the Tuscan counts made it hereditary in their family; again and again dissolute boys, like John XII [age 16 when he became Pope] and Benedict IX [at age 11], occupied and disgraced the Apostolic throne, which was now bought and sold like a piece of merchandise…"

A number of popes were actually illegitmate sons of previous popes. Pope Pius II even declared that Rome was “the only city run by bastards” Pius himself admitted to fathering two illegitimate children while pope from two different women and one of them married at the time!

John XII (955-964) who I mentioned earlier became pope at age 16 ran a harem in the papal palace and lived a life of such evil that it staggers the imagination! He even toasted the devil in front of St. Peter’s altar! John even slept with his mother and any other woman he could get his hands on. Women were warned not to venture into St. John Lateran church because as Liutprand wrote:

“Women…fear to come and pray at the thresholds of the holy apostles, for they have heard now how John a little time ago took women pilgrims by force to his bed, wives, widows and virgins alike”

Me again. This is much more than just a little struggle with sin. These men didn’t struggle with it at all, they embraced it! These are supposedly the men who were leaders of the church? They are supposed to be men of dignity and above reproach yet they led lives that even pagans found scandalous!! How can anyone in their right mind take what these guys have said and passed off as doctrine and dogma as legitimate?

I’m not even going to go into the Catholic church’s partnership with Hitler in the Holocaust.

I gotta stop I’m getting ill.
 
It would seem that they must. If they did not believe that the Catholic Church has errors, they would be obliged to become Catholics.

I think that’s an over intellectualist approach.​

It’s not enough for a given form of Christianity - such as Catholicism - to “have all the answers” (not that it does; no form of Christianity does): there is nothing Christian, or even specifically religious, in “having all the answers”. A form of Christianity that is without Christ,is supremely, totally, utterly worthless; nothing could be more worthless.

AFAICS, whether a Christianity can answer all the questions put to it by all comers or not is sublimely unimportant - what matters is that Christ should work in it & through it. If mere intellectual brilliance were enough, Christ would not have been crucified. The Crucifixion is the way in which God’s Wisdom turned the wisdom of man into folly - God’s Wisdom is wiser than man: we are saved by the Cross, not by human cleverness.

The Cross is the Power of God that brings salvation (as St.Paul says) - it’s far more effective than anything as feeble & blighted by sin as human wisdom. Best of all, it is not subject to our control - unlike our fallen & foolish “wisdom”; so no Church can monopolise it. 🙂 So it can be as powerful among other Christians or any other men as among us: whether we approve or not. 🙂 Christ is needed - not another religious form without Christ. To have that without Him is like seeking God’s gifts more than God. :eek:
 
Hmmm, I have a copy of the Cathechism of the Catholic Church and understand it pretty well. I grew up in a very Catholic town (more Catholics than Protestants). I think I understand it pretty well.

Does your definition of “open-minded” mean “compliant” and “non-confrontational”? So if I just let a blind man fall off a cliff without warning him would that be called “open minded” or just plain irresponsible and uncaring?
When I say open minded, I mean understanding. They can disagree all they want, but they should do so with charity.
 
A FEW priests??? A FEW PRIESTS!!! You must be joking!!! The Los Angeles Archdiocese alone had to pay out $660 million dollars to over 500 victims of priest sexual abuse!
Sex abuse is not limited to the Catholic Church. I also done a apologetic work by listening to some audio set on the sex scandal by Tim Staples.

The core of the problem is the liberal Catholic within the Catholic Church allowing homosexual priests, and who want to change Rome’s policy concerning, homosexuality, priestly celibacy, and women priesthood.

There is a connection according to Tim Staples that the majority of the sex scandal are done by men who have active homosexual. A audio book called “Good-bye, Good Men” (a book I recommend) states the liberal Catholic Vocation Directors discourage men who are loyal to the Magisterium, and write Rejection letters and not recommend them for the Seminary or the diocesan.

The problem lies within homosexual priest in the Catholic Church. I do believe the statistics you gave out is pretty out of date.

The John Jay College was commissioned by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops to do a study on sex scandal. John Jay College of Criminal Justice is very creditable on their stats. According to their finding, The Report found accusations against 4,392 priests in the USA, about 4% of all priests. Take a look at the report. usccb.org/nrb/johnjaystudy/
I lived in Europe for several years, the staggering amount of abuse I heard of in Austria alone. Catholic seminaries having porn parties with young boys in attendance, etc.
Wake up and smell coffee!
I also read that report and they were punished for their moral actions.
 
A smattering of sins and indiscretions are human but when you have centuries of this type of thing happening on a large scale by the very men who claim to represent faith and morals to the laity makes me want to puke! Yes, I judge the church because of that!
You judge the Church, but you are not the True Judge. God is. Let him judge them accordingly.
About the blemishes in church history and the Catholic church’s assertion that there are both sinners and saints in the church. I agree, except that the guy running the church should be held to the standard of Scripture
1Ti 3:7 **And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. **1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,
1Ti 3:9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if **they are beyond reproach. **
Let’s take a walk down memory lane shall we…
6 popes were actually installed by a pair of mother and daughter prostitutes: Theodora of Rome and her daughter Marozia who was the mistress of Pope Sergius III. After Sergius’ death came her other two damnable choices of Anastasius III (911-913) and Lando (913-914). This period is known in history as “The Rule of the Harlots.” History is full of sayings from these “holy” men such as: “The holiest hermit has his whore” and “Rome has more prostitutes than any other city because she has more celibates”
Pope John XII (955-963) was so involved in illicit sex that even though he had many mistresses it was known that it was no longer safe for a woman to visit St. Peter’s church in Rome!
A Catholic church historian Von Dollinger wrote: "the Roman church was enslaved and degraded with the Apostolic See (the Papal throne) became the prey and the plaything of rival factions of the nobles, and for a long time of ambitious and profligate women. It was only renovated for a brief interval (997-1003) in the persons of Gregory V and Silvester II, by the influence of the Saxon emperor.
Then the papacy sank back into the utter confusion and moral impotence; the Tuscan counts made it hereditary in their family; again and again dissolute boys, like John XII [age 16 when he became Pope] and Benedict IX [at age 11], occupied and disgraced the Apostolic throne, which was now bought and sold like a piece of merchandise…"
A number of popes were actually illegitmate sons of previous popes. Pope Pius II even declared that Rome was “the only city run by bastards” Pius himself admitted to fathering two illegitimate children while pope from two different women and one of them married at the time!
John XII (955-964) who I mentioned earlier became pope at age 16 ran a harem in the papal palace and lived a life of such evil that it staggers the imagination! He even toasted the devil in front of St. Peter’s altar! John even slept with his mother and any other woman he could get his hands on. Women were warned not to venture into St. John Lateran church because as Liutprand wrote:
“Women…fear to come and pray at the thresholds of the holy apostles, for they have heard now how John a little time ago took women pilgrims by force to his bed, wives, widows and virgins alike”
Me again. This is much more than just a little struggle with sin. These men didn’t struggle with it at all, they embraced it! These are supposedly the men who were leaders of the church? They are supposed to be men of dignity and above reproach yet they led lives that even pagans found scandalous!! How can anyone in their right mind take what these guys have said and passed off as doctrine and dogma as legitimate?
Let me add that in Jesus time, we have Judas betray Jesus, Peter deny Jesus 3 times, and Saul killing Christians. Yet the Church remain faithful. It hasn’t taught any heresy. Jesus promise that the gates of hell shall not prevail against his Church. He did not promise that his followers would be impeccable.
I’m not even going to go into the Catholic church’s partnership with Hitler in the Holocaust.
I gotta stop I’m getting ill.
The so called partnership with Hitler is refuted in book **The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pope Pius XII **Rescued Jews from the Nazis is a book written by Rabbi David G. Dalin and published in 2005. Read it. Rabbi Dalin refuted the so called “Hitler’s Pope.” Get your facts straight my friend, because you give out false information.

This only proves to show that Non-Catholic Christians (Protestants) are just as clueless about Catholicism.
 
All this hate you have towards the church can’t be good for yourself. I hope you didn’t join the catholic forums just to criticize the church. St maximillion died for a man when hittler was in power. He is a wonderful St for what he did. How come you focus on ones who abuse the call and not the good that is in the church.
 
A smattering of sins and indiscretions are human but when you have centuries of this type of thing happening on a large scale by the very men who claim to represent faith and morals to the laity makes me want to puke! Yes, I judge the church because of that!

One sin is too many.​

About the blemishes in church history and the Catholic church’s assertion that there are both sinners and saints in the church. I agree, except that the guy running the church should be held to the standard of Scripture

1Ti 3:7 **And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. **1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,
1Ti 3:9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if **they are beyond reproach. **

Let’s take a walk down memory lane shall we…

6 popes were actually installed by a pair of mother and daughter prostitutes: Theodora of Rome and her daughter Marozia who was the mistress of Pope Sergius III. After Sergius’ death came her other two damnable choices of Anastasius III (911-913) and Lando (913-914).

That’s unfair to Lando at least - virtually nothing is known about him, even to his discredit. As for Marozia being a prostitute, that’s a calumny; which is not to deny that she was a Bad Thing for the Papacy (from some POVs at least).​

This period is known in history as “The Rule of the Harlots.” History is full of sayings from these “holy” men such as: “The holiest hermit has his whore” and “Rome has more prostitutes than any other city because she has more celibates”
If Cardinal Baronius had not been honest enough to mention these things in his
History of the Church, we would know little of them - perhaps nothing. If anything, he was too severe. He had a reputation for being totally honest, even among his critics: which for someone writing in the 1580s, in the thick of tne Reformation, is quite something. 🙂
Pope John XII (955-963) was so involved in illicit sex that even though he had many mistresses it was known that it was no longer safe for a woman to visit St. Peter’s church in Rome!

A Catholic church historian Von Dollinger wrote: "the Roman church was enslaved and degraded with the Apostolic See (the Papal throne) became the prey and the plaything of rival factions of the nobles, and for a long time of ambitious and profligate women. It was only renovated for a brief interval (997-1003) in the persons of Gregory V and Silvester II, by the influence of the Saxon emperor.

Then the papacy sank back into the utter confusion and moral impotence; the Tuscan counts made it hereditary in their family; again and again dissolute boys, like John XII [age 16 when he became Pope] and Benedict IX [at age 11], occupied and disgraced the Apostolic throne, which was now bought and sold like a piece of merchandise…"

A number of popes were actually illegitmate sons of previous popes. Pope Pius II even declared that Rome was “the only city run by bastards” Pius himself admitted to fathering two illegitimate children while pope from two different women and one of them married at the time!

That is 500 years later - the Papacy seems to fall into a debased condition every so often: the period from 964 (when John XII resigned) to 1464 (when Pius II died) is not unrelievedly black. The centralisation of the CC is a recent development - the ghastly behaviour of some Popes (& prelates) may seem more ruinous than it would have seemed to Catholics before 1800 or so.​

…more…]
 
When I say open minded, I mean understanding. They can disagree all they want, but they should do so with charity.
Yes, but with honesty. Sometimes when we love our kids we have to discipline them and spank their little behinds. It hurts but necessary. I don’t think many kids would think their parents were being so loving at the time, although they can look back on it years later and be grateful.

This was a loving statement by Christ but I wonder how it was perceived then by the “religious types” as well as how would the Catholic church today:

Mar 7:6 And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
'(8)THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
Mar 7:7 ‘(9)BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.’
Mar 7:8 “Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
Mar 7:9 He was also saying to them, "**You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. **
 
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