Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

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Hoosier Daddy #337
I am curious as to the point of renaming nfp nbr. I don’t find it in any of the links you provide or anywhere really. Is it a personal attempt by you to change the wording and if so why? I get from a marketing standpoint why “birth” might be preferable as it invokes a more life friendly feeling. But why regulation? Is that to move away from the idea if “planning”.
Care to elaborate?
I know what nfp is but where can I learn about nbr?
#339
I still can’t find NBR as an acronym. I get that natural and birth and regulation are used often but I wonder why the poster made up thier own acronym instead of using nfp. There has to be a reason. It is obviously done deliberately. I’m just curious what that reason is. It does not show up in Google or in any acronym finders. At all.
So where can I learn about NBR?
My reason is that Vatican II’s *Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World *(Gaudium et Spes) #50-51 teaches that:
“In questions of birth regulation, the sons of the Church, faithful to these principles, are forbidden to use methods disapproved of by the teaching authority of the Church in its interpretation of the divine law. 14”

And to what does note 14 refer?

To Pope Pius XI’s Encyclical Casti Connubii, 1930, which teaches infallibly (#56) that “any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life** is an offense against the law of God and of nature, and those who indulge in such are branded with the guilt of a grave sin.”** [My emphases].

Thus, my preference has been to use the term **Natural Birth Regulation (NBR). **The doctrinal teaching against contraception in Casti Connubii (Pius XI, 1930) and Humanae Vitae (Paul VI, 1968) are infallible definitions. Contraception is intrinsically gravely wrong. NBR is extremely effective when properly practised and encourages self-control.
 
I don’t know but I wonder if because the vast majority of Catholics are actually “cafeteria Catholics” or non practicing or don’t live up to being 100% faithful?
 
I don’t know but I wonder if because the vast majority of Catholics are actually “cafeteria Catholics” or non practicing or don’t live up to being 100% faithful?
Since the term is not officially defined anywhere, I have always accepted the term to mean a baptized Catholic who chooses to not believe Church teachings on any issues she has addresed. They pick and choose which teachings are correct. This is different than simply saying “Of course the Church is correct, I just don’t care about my eternal soul.”

It has never been used to describe someone who sins, or who acknowledges Church Supremacy on something while acknowledging their own inability to succeed in honoring that teaching due to sin.

Even on here, we see it. There is a vast difference between saying “the Church is wrong on Contraception” and “the Church is right, but I am unable/unwilling to obey.” Not that the latter is okay, but isn’t the same level of pride as the former which elevates us to possessing the mind of God. The latter admits the Church is correct.

I sin every day, but I also acknowledge the Church’s teachings are always correct, and if my mind or will does not align with something the Church has spoken on, then I am the mistaken one.

If we used your definition of a sinner being a Cafeteria Catholic, that would mean St. Peter, St. Therese, and Pope Francis were all cafeteria Catholics.
 
It has never been used to describe someone who sins, or who acknowledges Church Supremacy on something while acknowledging their own inability to succeed in honoring that teaching due to sin.

Even on here, we see it. There is a vast difference between saying “the Church is wrong on Contraception” and “the Church is right, but I am unable/unwilling to obey.” Not that the latter is okay, but isn’t the same level of pride as the former which elevates us to possessing the mind of God. The latter admits the Church is correct.
I really think there is less of a strict line between those attitudes than you might think and that ‘cafeteria Catholic’ is a good overall definition.

There is a phenomenon where a person can use what they see as a loophole in the system to have things both ways. ie. I believe in the teaching but I’m a sinner and by confessing I’ve fixed things. Sometimes Priests have to counsel people that turn up over and over with the same sin because it can be an abuse of the Sacrament. (Not all people who come with the same sin over and over are in this category of course)

It’s an approach that equates with an abusive husband who attacks his wife, feels remorse and apologises and feels that all is squared, but continues to live this same pattern again and again. His remorse is connected more with how he feels bad and wanting to feel good again… rather than having remorse for damaging the relationship and the wife’s dignity. Hence, there is no real drive to heal and absolve not to sin again. That pattern never leads to esteem of the wife’s dignity but to the contrary it leads to her ever diminished relevance in the relationship. The confession is like way of skirting the system without growing in faithfulness. That can manifest pride also in that sense of experiencing oneself as more good and holy than others who just simply ignore Church teaching.
 
My reason is that Vatican II’s *Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World *(Gaudium et Spes) #50-51 teaches that:
“In questions of birth regulation, the sons of the Church, faithful to these principles, are forbidden to use methods disapproved of by the teaching authority off the Church in its interpretation of the divine law. 14”

And to what does note 14 refer?

To Pope Pius XI’s Encyclical Casti Connubii, 1930, which teaches infallibly (#56) that “any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life**** is an offense against the law of God and of nature, and those who indulge in such are branded with the guilt of a grave sin.” [My emphases].

Thus, my preference has been to use the term **Natural Birth Regulation (NBR). **The doctrinal teaching against contraception in Casti Connubii (Pius XI, 1930) and Humanae Vitae (Paul VI, 1968) are infallible definitions. Contraception is intrinsically gravely wrong. NBR is extremely effective when properly practised and encourages self-control.
Oh so it is your attempt to alter the nfp language. A general acronym rule is to use ones that have been established. It is odd that nfp isn’t sufficient. It’s no big deal really. Just a Pete peeve of mine.
 
Since the term is not officially defined anywhere, I have always accepted the term to mean a baptized Catholic who chooses to not believe Church teachings on any issues she has addresed. They pick and choose which teachings are correct. This is different than simply saying “Of course the Church is correct, I just don’t care about my eternal soul.”

It has never been used to describe someone who sins, or who acknowledges Church Supremacy on something while acknowledging their own inability to succeed in honoring that teaching due to sin.

Even on here, we see it. There is a vast difference between saying “the Church is wrong on Contraception” and “the Church is right, but I am unable/unwilling to obey.” Not that the latter is okay, but isn’t the same level of pride as the former which elevates us to possessing the mind of God. The latter admits the Church is correct.

I sin every day, but I also acknowledge the Church’s teachings are always correct, and if my mind or will does not align with something the Church has spoken on, then I am the mistaken one.

If we used your definition of a sinner being a Cafeteria Catholic, that would mean St. Peter, St. Therese, and Pope Francis were all cafeteria Catholics.
Whatever the definitions are, actually I was dividing my answer into the 3 possibilities that I actually mentioned. 1 or 2 or 3. Not that there can’t be some overlap of course.
 
So, basically the answers in this forum can be summed up into three-

Why do most people ignore the Church’s teaching on contraception?

Answer 1: Because they prefer to walk the path of Satan and will all fall into hell like snowflakes (and Fatima even said so!).

Answer 2: Because NFP is not effective/affects marriages/is costly, and the Church won’t help me pay for my expenses (other than occasional meals from Vincent DePaul).

Answer 3: Because the Church needs to re-consider this issue in light of scientific advancements and re-formulate, and the wisdom of the laity points in this direction (at the risk of Church teaching burying itself into irrelevance).
 
Dioceses have family life offices. Lay ministries abound, both within parishes, dioceses, and independently. I think “the Church” (meaning the people in the Church) have done exactly what HV called for.
What are these ministries? NFP instruction? In our city, one of the largest in North America, there is ONE couple available to teach the symptothermal method. That’s two people available to teach millions of Catholics. Marquette is not represented at all locally and requires distance instruction. Creighton is available from a handful of doctors whose services are not covered under health care to the tune of $600 for an initial consult and two follow up visits. I met one of three couples known to practice NFP in our parish, one couple a pair of medical doctors, and their response at meeting someone else who used NFP was astonishment and excitement. No, the resources are not abundant.
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1ke:
Right, because the Church is just loaded with extra money.
An organization of notionally 1 billion people worldwide doesn’t have the funds for $50 to $100 million (half a cent to a cent per living Catholic) to support pro-life living?! Come on! If each Catholic in North America and Europe would forego a single coffee out and slip the funds into a NFP research collection, we’d be covered! In my city alone, the Archidoscese is paying more than that amount of money to refurbish a basilica. For the value of a single church building/s refurbishment (not even construction!), we could have a set of clinical trials that doctors would use to promote NFP globally to a population of 7 billion. If the value of a single soul merits Jesus’ sacrifice, how is it not affordable to potentially save millions, if not billions, of lives? There is such thing as being penny wise and pound foolish.
ike:
Marquette University, a Catholic University, did just that.
The Marquette method is an admirable step in the direction of modern research. However, its studies are mostly (if not all, I don’t have access to an article database currently and am working from memory) retrospective, with small sample sizes and limited statistical power, which is reflective of their difficulty accessing funding. They could do so much more if they didn’t rely solely on small Catholic university grants for research. It would be incredible to see a prospective trial of the standard, post-partum, and perimenopausal Marquette methods with 1,000+ participants each over a long time horizon (3-5 years).

Also, Marquette is not a panacea. Individuals with irregular estrogen or LH levels will have unusual monitor readings, and the manufacturer of the device used in the method has acknowledged that ovulation will be missed by the monitor in approximately one in ten users.
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1ke:
Dr Hilgers created NaPro and Fertility Care while at Creighton University, a Catholic University.
Yes, and while a good and viable option for some sufferers of PCOS and other health disorders, there are legitimate medical cases in which NFP methods are not tenable given required medical treatment.

Interestingly, in our region, NaPro doctors’ services aren’t covered by public health care, so all expenses have to be paid out of pocket. So even where services are provided, the poor may be genuinely unable to access NaPro services, even if they desire to do so.
 
I was told by my pastor that I should just go on birth control when I asked if there was anyone in the parish who taught NFP. 🤷 There is only one place in my diocese that offers NFP instruction that I’ve found and I’d have to drive several hours to get there. I was able to teach myself to use the Marquette method but it’s really expensive. Honestly after my struggle to find any support anywhere to learn and use NFP I can see why a woman would just give up and go on birth control. 😦
 
So, basically the answers in this forum can be summed up into three-

Why do most people ignore the Church’s teaching on contraception?

Answer 1: Because they prefer to walk the path of Satan and will all fall into hell like snowflakes (and Fatima even said so!).

Answer 2: Because NFP is not effective/affects marriages/is costly, and the Church won’t help me pay for my expenses (other than occasional meals from Vincent DePaul).

Answer 3: Because the Church needs to re-consider this issue in light of scientific advancements and re-formulate, and the wisdom of the laity points in this direction (at the risk of Church teaching burying itself into irrelevance).
I think answer 3 defines the general attitude most accurately. There’s just a general feeling that the Churchs position is outdated and will eventually soften and people feel like part of the movement to change the teaching. Hence, they don’t consider that it is a mortal sin.
 
I think answer 3 defines the general attitude most accurately. There’s just a general feeling that the Churchs position is outdated and will eventually soften and people feel like part of the movement to change the teaching. Hence, they don’t consider that it is a mortal sin.
I think it’s just an excuse to do what they want. They know deep down that the Church will not change, but they need a reason to excuse their sin.
 
I was told by my pastor that I should just go on birth control when I asked if there was anyone in the parish who taught NFP. 🤷 There is only one place in my diocese that offers NFP instruction that I’ve found and I’d have to drive several hours to get there. I was able to teach myself to use the Marquette method but it’s really expensive. Honestly after my struggle to find any support anywhere to learn and use NFP I can see why a woman would just give up and go on birth control. 😦
Yes! We had to go to another city to get our training for symptothermal. The associate pastor at our parish who, at the time was, in charge of the marriage ministry was pushing us to use Billings. When I said he should offer the names and websites of local resources for all the main NFP methods locally, he was defensive. Maybe Billings doesn’t fit a given couple’s needs, but Marquette or symptothermal does, and that lack of disclosure loses the diocese a potential NFP couple. How hard is it to maintain a master list on a webpage on the Archdioscese for general access?

I am SO grateful to our current pastor, who is diametrically opposed to the prior marriage minister’s lack of transparency. He consults widely, provides information freely, and connects people. He’s spearheading an Archdioscese level catechism program, and I suspect he would be open to including good NFP instruction to high school level participants. God bless that man!
 
Our Diocese…while a little more on the conservative/Orthodox…doesn’t offer that much in terms of NFP.

The Pre-cana class offered a couple singing the praises of how awesome NFP is. That was about it.
No literature or specifics on who to contact or what to do.

I looked around the diocese website and made a couple of phone calls and found only two teaching couples in the entire diocese. One of the couples was no longer offering classes and the other held classes once a month and was well over an hour drive from home.

They also only offered STM and no other method.

Since I’ve joined my Parish several years ago and made friends with other moms…I’ve asked around about different methods people used.

I’ve been told two different things. 1.) Marquette (especially for the women who really needed to space pregnancies) or 2.) Spacing using breastfeeding only.

It’s been frustrating. CCL was a huge letdown. I used their home course to learn the method but was seriously troubled by their huge push on EBF methods and the fact that no one got back to me when I had questions about my charts.
I emailed and called and got in touch with no one.
 
But a person with “nasty things” should be celibate. And if that person had followed God’s plan of sexuality from the beginning, there would be no nasty things!
That’s not necessarily true. Some STD’s are inherited in the womb by an affected mother. They could follow God’s plan for sex to the letter and they’d still have an STD. Just a reminder. 😉
 
I think it all comes down to honesty. NFP is SO dishonestly portrayed by the main teaching methods false portrayal of NFP and their instructors. I mean how many people want to be lied to by all the candy hearts and flowers portrayal of NFP? NFP is excruciatingly hard, on individuals and marriages especially today. Please show us that, tell us about the cross we will be carrying. Show us the crucifixion this will be in our lives personally and in our marriage. Find ways to help us through the hard times, make it as easy on us as possible. Please don’t feed is the sugar coated lies that this will be easy and so good for our marriage and that our marriages will be better and we will all be happy go lucky picture perfect smiles all the time cause of it. Yeah that happens, but it’s not the norm. You tell us that birth control manufacturers and distributors lie to us, we’ll that’s true, but frankly so do the NFP teachers. Tell us what we will go through, instruct us on the cross. Quit making it look like a cakewalk cause it’s not. Encourage us, don’t lie to us. Just my two cents. 🤷
 
That’s not necessarily true. Some STD’s are inherited in the womb by an affected mother. They could follow God’s plan for sex to the letter and they’d still have an STD. Just a reminder. 😉
Yes, they are some people with stds through their mom, but the vast majority get std from having sex. Sadly, those who get it from mom are paying for her (or dad’s) sin, just like babies of drug addicts frequently pay the price.
 
I think it all comes down to honesty. NFP is SO dishonestly portrayed by the main teaching methods false portrayal of NFP and their instructors. I mean how many people want to be lied to by all the candy hearts and flowers portrayal of NFP? NFP is excruciatingly hard, on individuals and marriages especially today. Please show us that, tell us about the cross we will be carrying. Show us the crucifixion this will be in our lives personally and in our marriage. Find ways to help us through the hard times, make it as easy on us as possible. Please don’t feed is the sugar coated lies that this will be easy and so good for our marriage and that our marriages will be better and we will all be happy go lucky picture perfect smiles all the time cause of it. Yeah that happens, but it’s not the norm. You tell us that birth control manufacturers and distributors lie to us, we’ll that’s true, but frankly so do the NFP teachers. Tell us what we will go through, instruct us on the cross. Quit making it look like a cakewalk cause it’s not. Encourage us, don’t lie to us. Just my two cents. 🤷
My nfp teacher and my nfp doctor never claimed those things. They actually told me it would be hard. I didn’t believe them 😊 I’m lucky that I have such great, honest teachers.
 
Okay, I’ve read every post.

My wife and I are old enough that this is no longer a problem, but did practice NFP for over twenty years. It was hard. It was artificial. It was a constant source of hurt feelings. We did it to be faithful to the Church.

It is so much better now.

Some random thoughts:

Why does a Catholic life have to be full of suffering that we should embrace, instead of full of joy?

Why is the Church’s sexual theology so focused on where the man’s seed ends up? Is it because of a mistaken medieval belief that it contained baby humans?

Why doesn’t the Church address what a couple is to do after they have reached their limit of children? If one is honest, 99.99% of couples reach their children limit before their fertility is over, and therefore, will abstain or use NFP forever after that until menopause.
Excellent post! Well said!
 
My nfp teacher and my nfp doctor never claimed those things. They actually told me it would be hard. I didn’t believe them 😊 I’m lucky that I have such great, honest teachers.
Yes, you are very lucky you found an honest teacher. One only has to read the CCL’s website to read the lies most people are fed at their NFP classes.
 
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