Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

[Thorolfr]

Yes, you are very lucky you found an honest teacher. One only has to read the CCL’s website to read the lies most people are fed at their NFP classes.

Is this the one you’re talking about?

ccli.org/

 

[Convert_in_99]

As one who is prematurely on the other side (of menopause) I will say it’s no cakewalk for many after it either. Many couples face a long-term and potential lifetime of abstenience due to vaginal atrophy. A condition found in up to 40% of post-menopausal women. I had a hysterectomy and also my ovaries removed due to severe reoccurring Endometriosis and Adenomyosis. This is more likely to affect me permenatly than the other forty percent. I also have a vaginal cuff (since I no longer have a cervix or uterus.) Each time my husband and will engage in intercourse I have a 4.5% chance of ripping my VC and my intestines coming out. I ain’t kidding. The cross follows you for life. You can’t escape it. It will find you where you’re at, in one form or another.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Is this the one you’re talking about?

ccli.org/

Yes.

 

[Kelfa28]

Yes, you are very lucky you found an honest teacher. One only has to read the CCL’s website to read the lies most people are fed at their NFP classes.

Yeah…I had a terrible experience with CCL.

They are the worst example of NFP propaganda. With them…everything is sunshine and roses and if it doesn’t work…then it’s your fault.
They were massive proponents for ecological breastfeeding…which I believe is a total sham and poor practice.
It should never be sold as a form of pregnancy spacing…even if it does work…there is no way of knowing if it does or doesn’t.
At least NFP is an objective way to space pregnancies…EBF is like throwing a dart with a blindfold on…you might hit a bulls eye but it’s not something you can, objectively, control on your own.

I’ve done research and I think if Catholics want a true experience with NFP with compassionate caregivers and genuine help they need to use Creighton or Marquette.

 

[HouseArrest]

Our Diocese…while a little more on the conservative/Orthodox…doesn’t offer that much in terms of NFP.

The Pre-cana class offered a couple singing the praises of how awesome NFP is. That was about it.
No literature or specifics on who to contact or what to do.

I looked around the diocese website and made a couple of phone calls and found only two teaching couples in the entire diocese. One of the couples was no longer offering classes and the other held classes once a month and was well over an hour drive from home.

They also only offered STM and no other method.

Since I’ve joined my Parish several years ago and made friends with other moms…I’ve asked around about different methods people used.

I’ve been told two different things. 1.) Marquette (especially for the women who really needed to space pregnancies) or 2.) Spacing using breastfeeding only.

It’s been frustrating. CCL was a huge letdown. I used their home course to learn the method but was seriously troubled by their huge push on EBF methods and the fact that no one got back to me when I had questions about my charts.
I emailed and called and got in touch with no one.

We’re in a more liberal diocese, and we have an active NFP office with a very outgoing staff that provides a monthly newsletter, frequently contacts us to ask us what our parishioners need, and has a teaching couple within a half hour to 45 minute drive of each other.

What we don’t have much of? People who take the NFP office up on what they have to offer.

They do Mother Daughter teas, prayer support, etc. Just goes to show you, don’t love what you’ve got 'til it’s gone.

 

[LongingSoul]

I think it all comes down to honesty. NFP is SO dishonestly portrayed by the main teaching methods false portrayal of NFP and their instructors. I mean how many people want to be lied to by all the candy hearts and flowers portrayal of NFP? NFP is excruciatingly hard, on individuals and marriages especially today. Please show us that, tell us about the cross we will be carrying. Show us the crucifixion this will be in our lives personally and in our marriage. Find ways to help us through the hard times, make it as easy on us as possible. Please don’t feed is the sugar coated lies that this will be easy and so good for our marriage and that our marriages will be better and we will all be happy go lucky picture perfect smiles all the time cause of it. Yeah that happens, but it’s not the norm. You tell us that birth control manufacturers and distributors lie to us, we’ll that’s true, but frankly so do the NFP teachers. Tell us what we will go through, instruct us on the cross. Quit making it look like a cakewalk cause it’s not. Encourage us, don’t lie to us. Just my two cents.

These posts cross a line of integrity. Not those encouraging NFP. I realise by your name that you are a convert and could be excused somewhat, but the good people taking the time to run and teach NFP are NOT liars.

If you were very overweight and your doctor says this regime of eating naturally will put years on your life and god willing allow you to play with your grandchildren in your old age. It will take pressure off your heart and improve your circulation to your vital organs… is he lying because you don’t find immediate and superficial happiness?

Everything he said is true even though restrictive diets and punishing exercise are painful and impossible for some. NFP is a lifestyle with goods of a more profound nature than immediate pleasure. Shovelling fast food down ones throat is undoubtedly easier and is probably the best choice for those who think only of their own immediate pleasure. “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you will die” types of philosophies. Catholics on the other hand strive for the joys of a spiritual nature.

 

[Convert_in_99]

These posts cross a line of integrity. Not those encouraging NFP. I realise by your name that you are a convert and could be excused somewhat, but the good people taking the time to run and teach NFP are NOT liars.

If you were very overweight and your doctor says this regime of eating naturally will put years on your life and god willing allow you to play with your grandchildren in your old age. It will take pressure off your heart and improve your circulation to your vital organs… is he lying because you don’t find immediate and superficial happiness?

Everything he said is true even though restrictive diets and punishing exercise are painful and impossible for some. NFP is a lifestyle with goods of a more profound nature than immediate pleasure. Shovelling fast food down ones throat is undoubtedly easier and is probably the best choice for those who think only of their own immediate pleasure. “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you will die” types of philosophies. Catholics on the other hand strive for the joys of a spiritual nature.

I don’t believe I crossed any lines. The truth that NFP is difficult (EXTREMELY difficult even at times) needs to be out there. I didn’t suggest that people not use NFP, just that those instructing NFP and those behind them give an accurate portrayal of the TYPICAL NFP using couple (and not use their perfect model few.)

 

[LongingSoul]

Yeah…I had a terrible experience with CCL.

They are the worst example of NFP propaganda. With them…everything is sunshine and roses and if it doesn’t work…then it’s your fault.
They were massive proponents for ecological breastfeeding…which I believe is a total sham and poor practice.
It should never be sold as a form of pregnancy spacing…even if it does work…there is no way of knowing if it does or doesn’t.
At least NFP is an objective way to space pregnancies…EBF is like throwing a dart with a blindfold on…you might hit a bulls eye but it’s not something you can, objectively, control on your own.

I’ve done research and I think if Catholics want a true experience with NFP with compassionate caregivers and genuine help they need to use Creighton or Marquette.

These techniques are perfectly in accord with Catholic teaching. A Catholic person approaches them in the spirit of trust in Catholic teaching against contraception… not with a 'come on. Sell it to me" attitude. Many faithful Catholics do what they have to as hard as it is, to live the Catholic way. If there is an area of discord somewhere like a husband that doesn’t want to do it, then he can take his contraceptive measures according to his conscience without implicating his wife in the sin of contraception for example. If there is an hormonal related medical issue, the Church allows treatment of that condition regardless of the contraceptive effect.

Every married couple has their life to live and their choices to make. No one is there with a big stick at the end of your bed lashing you if you don’t obey the Church. It remains between you and God.

It’s tiring hearing that some people are lucky an NFP works for them. Most of us have had long periods of abstinence and worry about pregnancy to handle over the years of our fertile married life. Myself, I’ve been married 28 years and have had 5 pregnancies. That means that I’ve only had sex 5 times during the most pleasurable time of ovulation for a woman. That was a exercise in restraint and reorienting the focus of married life that took effort and courage… yes courage. I think it is a horrible thing for a Catholic not to acknowledge that NFP is courageous in this world of free love and sex.

You are more than entitled to keep raging at the people who conform and the Church but you’re certainly not doing the Church or yourself any favours by it. I think it would be much more ethical to dissent quietly like the majority of others who are in your position.

 

[Convert_in_99]

These techniques are perfectly in accord with Catholic teaching. A Catholic person approaches them in the spirit of trust in Catholic teaching against contraception… not with a 'come on. Sell it to me" attitude. Many faithful Catholics do what they have to as hard as it is, to live the Catholic way. If there is an area of discord somewhere like a husband that doesn’t want to do it, then he can take his contraceptive measures according to his conscience without implicating his wife in the sin of contraception for example. If there is an hormonal related medical issue, the Church allows treatment of that condition regardless of the contraceptive effect.

Every married couple has their life to live and their choices to make. No one is there with a big stick at the end of your bed lashing you if you don’t obey the Church. It remains between you and God.

It’s tiring hearing that some people are lucky an NFP works for them. Most of us have had long periods of abstinence and worry about pregnancy to handle over the years of our fertile married life. Myself, I’ve been married 28 years and have had 5 pregnancies. That means that I’ve only had sex 5 times during the most pleasurable time of ovulation for a woman. That was a exercise in restraint and reorienting the focus of married life that took effort and courage… yes courage. I think it is a horrible thing for a Catholic not to acknowledge that NFP is courageous in this world of free love and sex.

You are more than entitled to keep raging at the people who conform and the Church but you’re certainly not doing the Church or yourself any favours by it. I think it would be much more ethical to dissent quietly like the majority of others who are in your position.

Kefla is not against the church in saying she didn’t like the CCL’s portrayal of how wonderful and glorious NFP is and how wonderful and glorious it is for your marriage. Kelfa is not speaking against NFP, just simply doesn’t like a certain portrayal of what NFP does to “help” couples and their marriages.

 

[LongingSoul]

Kefla is not against the church in saying she didn’t like the CCL’s portrayal of how wonderful and glorious NFP is and how wonderful and glorious it is for your marriage. Kelfa is not speaking against NFP, just simply doesn’t like a certain portrayal of what NFP does to “help” couples and their marriages.

I’ve seen a couple of recent posts of Keflas that indicate it is more than hostility towards NFP coaches that she takes issue with.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Our Diocese…while a little more on the conservative/Orthodox…doesn’t offer that much in terms of NFP.

The Pre-cana class offered a couple singing the praises of how awesome NFP is. That was about it.
No literature or specifics on who to contact or what to do.

I looked around the diocese website and made a couple of phone calls and found only two teaching couples in the entire diocese. One of the couples was no longer offering classes and the other held classes once a month and was well over an hour drive from home.

They also only offered STM and no other method.

Since I’ve joined my Parish several years ago and made friends with other moms…I’ve asked around about different methods people used.

I’ve been told two different things. 1.) Marquette (especially for the women who really needed to space pregnancies) or 2.) Spacing using breastfeeding only.

It’s been frustrating. CCL was a huge letdown. I used their home course to learn the method but was seriously troubled by their huge push on EBF methods and the fact that no one got back to me when I had questions about my charts.
I emailed and called and got in touch with no one.

Nfp proponents would do well to completely divorce themselves from CCL. Thier marketing has taken over the entire issue and has overshadowed other nfp methods and instructors. It is absolutely killing the cause and CCL is so synonymous with nfp in people’s mind that they view all nfp promotion and encouragement as CCL. Between that and the idea that everyone should use nfp ( not everyone should) there is a huge distrust. I blame CCL. We have decided nfp is not for us. We have never been happier. But someday, should we need it we know about it…

 

[Kelfa28]

I’ve seen a couple of recent posts of Keflas that indicate it is more than hostility towards NFP coaches that she takes issue with.

Yet, I’ve never been an open proponent for ABC.

I’ve never said that Church law is wrong.

I may sympathize with ABC users…but I’ve never said they are correct.

I may be using the pill now…but it’s for a medical reasons.

You want me to stay quiet but what I’ve experienced is a truth that should be expressed.

I used CCL because it was the only available course for me in my Diocese that could help a newly married couple on a tight buget with a newborn.

I bought there propaganda with the website, the literature and the newsletter. It did not help my marriage and its promise of no cycles while EBFing was a total failure for me.

Then I was told, on CAF and by the founder of CCL, that it was my fault EBF did not work. Despite several posters and I pointing out obvious flaws in the system that will never be addressed.

I looked into Marquette and discovered its way too expensive and Lady Comp is even more and the nearest NaPro doctor won’t take my insurance because its across state lines and still a two hour drive.
The Napro doctor that might is a three hour drive.

This is my experience with NFP…I’ve had two unplanned pregnancies…the second one was a complete emotional and financial disaster that came close to crushing our marriage and our sanity.

I’m also not the only one on this forums with these huge issues. Like it or not, it’s the truth.

 

[CompSciGuy]

This is a question that has been a source of distress for a long time, and I’m going to be straightforward about it.

Why have most Catholics (several sources say at least 80-90%) disregarded what is, as far as I know, the official church teaching on contraception, which is that every sexual act within the bounds of marriage must be ordered toward procreation?

For many people the only method of family planning they are aware of is either hormonal birth control or barrier contraception. Many people are unaware of NFP or have a poor understanding of it or little confidence in it. Many of them feel that they are being given the choice between controlling their reproductive system or just constantly having babies non-stop. The choice for them is obvious. For those who are more aware of NFP, many realize that it requires more sacrifice and diligence than other family planning methods. It is more than popping a pill or slipping on a condom, it involves checking, charting, and analyzing. It’s work. And it also requires abstinence if you are trying to avoid. Abstinence is not usually seen in a positive light these days.

This has to be separated from the infallible teaching that part of the very definition marriage is to be open to procreating new life. I do not believe this is an issue of contention. Also, I am strictly referring to non-abortifacent artificial contraception, as I know several people like to lump this issue with abortion.

There are plenty of people even within the Catholic Church who would disagree with that infallible teaching…

However, Humanae Vitae exists. Would this encyclical, as prophetic as it might be, be considered a *misformulation *of true church doctrine? Is the fact that this single issue has created a huge gap between the ecclesia discens (those of us who are not ordained) and the ecclesia docens (the teaching ones) speak to the fact that this is an issue that needs to be re-formulated and possibly reconsidered in light of scientific knowledge, modern realities, and even environmental factors (ie. Laudato Si speaks to this)? Could this possibly be, as a Catholic editor of the America Magazine puts it, another “Galileo affair”?

My understanding is that Humanae Vitae, or at least its material concerning contraception, is official church teaching, meaning that either the bishops together have infallibly decided it or the pope has declared it ex cathedra. Since church teaching cannot change, its teaching on contraception ought to be considered infallible. Concerning Galileo, the amount of misinformation surrounding that particular case is pretty astounding. Galileo was not contradicting any official church teaching. Here is a tract on the matter:
catholic.com/tracts/the-galileo-controversy

 

[_Abyssinia]

This has to be separated from the infallible teaching that part of the very definition marriage is to be open to procreating new life. I do not believe this is an issue of contention. Also, I am strictly referring to non-abortifacent artificial contraception, as I know several people like to lump this issue with abortion.

Truncated.

Is there contraception that is known for definite is non-abortifacient, because there is certainly doubt and argument among pro-lifers at least, regarding some contraception.

American Association of Pro-life Obstetricians & Gynaecologists has an article up of which the following is an except from:

Included here are two papers, carefully researched and compiled by several members of the AAPLOG board (Birth Control Pill: Abortifacient and Contraceptive and Hormone Contraceptives Controversies and Clarifications). These papers come to different conclusions about the possible abortifacient effect of oral contraceptives, reflecting in a microcosm the controversy that has recently surrounded this issue in the larger pro-life community.

aaplog.org/position-and-papers/oral-contraceptive-controversy/

 

[Memaw]

These posts cross a line of integrity. Not those encouraging NFP. I realise by your name that you are a convert and could be excused somewhat, but the good people taking the time to run and teach NFP are NOT liars.

If you were very overweight and your doctor says this regime of eating naturally will put years on your life and god willing allow you to play with your grandchildren in your old age. It will take pressure off your heart and improve your circulation to your vital organs… is he lying because you don’t find immediate and superficial happiness?

Everything he said is true even though restrictive diets and punishing exercise are painful and impossible for some. NFP is a lifestyle with goods of a more profound nature than immediate pleasure. Shovelling fast food down ones throat is undoubtedly easier and is probably the best choice for those who think only of their own immediate pleasure. “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you will die” types of philosophies. Catholics on the other hand strive for the joys of a spiritual nature.

And of an Eternal nature !!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[kptrs]

I think it all comes down to honesty. NFP is SO dishonestly portrayed by the main teaching methods false portrayal of NFP and their instructors. I mean how many people want to be lied to by all the candy hearts and flowers portrayal of NFP? NFP is excruciatingly hard, on individuals and marriages especially today. Please show us that, tell us about the cross we will be carrying. Show us the crucifixion this will be in our lives personally and in our marriage. Find ways to help us through the hard times, make it as easy on us as possible. Please don’t feed is the sugar coated lies that this will be easy and so good for our marriage and that our marriages will be better and we will all be happy go lucky picture perfect smiles all the time cause of it. Yeah that happens, but it’s not the norm. You tell us that birth control manufacturers and distributors lie to us, we’ll that’s true, but frankly so do the NFP teachers. Tell us what we will go through, instruct us on the cross. Quit making it look like a cakewalk cause it’s not. Encourage us, don’t lie to us. Just my two cents.

A…men! :clapping:

 

[kptrs]

My nfp teacher and my nfp doctor never claimed those things. They actually told me it would be hard. I didn’t believe them I’m lucky that I have such great, honest teachers.

Some, not all, are honest. The first instructor I had was one who was not honest. I switched and my new instructors are a bit more honest about how difficult NFP is.

Most of the literature about NFP makes it out to be the greatest thing ever with nothing negative to say at all. Maybe that’s how it is for some people, but, once again, not all people.

One of the arguments I dislike most is the one that claims people who use contraception are automatically using their spouses for their own selfish sexual gratification and those who use NFP are automatically always treating their spouses selflessly and lovingly. Um…no. I don’t think so. It’s just as possible to act selfishly with your spouse on an infertle day with NFP. In fact, maybe more so. Since time for intimacy is limited, it’s not unlikely that one spouse would pressure the other spouse for sex on one of the few non-fertile days since there may not be another chance to have relations for a while.

However, I don’t think it’s the Catholic Church that is hyping up NFP. It’s the actual makers and instructors of the individual NFP methods.

I actually started a whole thread about this a while ago (sorry, I don’t know how to put the link to it here). It’s called “The Truth About NFP.” If you’re interested, you can search for it.

 

[kptrs]

These posts cross a line of integrity. Not those encouraging NFP. I realise by your name that you are a convert and could be excused somewhat, but the good people taking the time to run and teach NFP are NOT liars.

If you were very overweight and your doctor says this regime of eating naturally will put years on your life and god willing allow you to play with your grandchildren in your old age. It will take pressure off your heart and improve your circulation to your vital organs… is he lying because you don’t find immediate and superficial happiness?

Everything he said is true even though restrictive diets and punishing exercise are painful and impossible for some. NFP is a lifestyle with goods of a more profound nature than immediate pleasure. Shovelling fast food down ones throat is undoubtedly easier and is probably the best choice for those who think only of their own immediate pleasure. “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you will die” types of philosophies. Catholics on the other hand strive for the joys of a spiritual nature.

I don’t think Convert is saying not to use NFP. She’s saying it’s not right for NFP instructions to tell users that NFP is wonderful for marriage, you’ll love it, you’ll never have any problems or hard times with it, etc. when that’s just not true. For some people it is but not all. And then, as other posters have said, if a couple comes to the instructor and says they are struggling, the instructor says it’s something the couple is doing wrong. That’s not right.

I’m not saying don’t use NFP. I’m not saying use contraception. I’m saying it would be nice if NFP were portrayed more so as the cross that it is instead of a fairy tale in which everyone lives happily ever after and nothing bad ever happens. That’s just not true for some couples, and it’s not fair to make such blanket statements.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I don’t think Convert is saying not to use NFP. She’s saying it’s not right for NFP instructions to tell users that NFP is wonderful for marriage, you’ll love it, you’ll never have any problems or hard times with it, etc. when that’s just not true. For some people it is but not all. And then, as other posters have said, if a couple comes to the instructor and says they are struggling, it’s something the couple is doing wrong. That’s not right.

I’m not saying don’t use NFP. I’m not saying use contraception. I’m saying it would be nice if NFP were portrayed more so as the cross that it is instead of a fairy tale in which everyone lives happily ever after and nothing bad ever happens. That’s just not true for some couples, and it’s not fair to make such blanket statements.

The instructors work in sales so of course they are going to cherry pick the most positive experiences they can find. I can’t blame them for that; they are trying to get people to give their product a try. If people have negative experiences using NFP then that is service’s problem. None of this should come as any surprise if you have even a basic understanding as to how salesmen work.

 

[kptrs]

The instructors work in sales so of course they are going to cherry pick the most positive experiences they can find. I can’t blame them for that; they are trying to get people to give their product a try. If people have negative experiences using NFP then that is service’s problem. None of this should come as any surprise if you have even a basic understanding as to how salesmen work.

I agree with what you’re saying. But NFP isn’t exactly a product to be sold. It’s a morally acceptable option for family planning provided by the Church. People shouldn’t have to be “sold” NFP. They should use it because it is approved by the Church and contraception isn’t.

It’s not that simple, though, I do realize…