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ralphinal
Guest
Ok. That is what I thought. You had me confused for a minute
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hamba2han
Guest
The problem with verse Matthew 28:19 is that it directly contradicts the following verses:
"I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 15:24)
and also
"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: 'Do NOT go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 10:5-6)
In general, there are no major differences between the Bible and the Qur’an but as can be seen from the verses above, the only places where the Bible and the Qur’an are in conflict is where the Bible contradicts itself.
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ralphinal
Guest
Hamba, the Bible is in Chronological order. That verse in Matthew is AFTER he told them not to go to Gentiles. In other words, the time to go to all the world was at hand
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jakasaki
Guest
Oh… another answering Christianity dot com statement.
Hamba, you’ve been here long enough to know that this has been explained to you and other muslim posters a bazzilion times, yet you post the same thing.
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staffsgt7
Guest
I already listed his self-proclamations in an earlier post. I also noted how he committed shirk in one of those self-proclamations.
Like I said earlier, if Mohammed lived today he would have been in Jail as just another cult leader who committed sexual crimes against children, and killed people… and we all know the list of his misbehaviors. And all his followers are ok with those things. And we see the same thing with other followers of cult leaders.
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Nine_Two
Guest
And yet another poster (Hamba2han) who makes crazy statements and then tries to deny he said them. Then he brings up other unrelated points to distract from his ineptness.
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GeorgeSword
Guest
And the claim that Jesus always prayed in prostration?
After withdrawing about a stone’s throw from them and kneeling, he prayed, saying, “Father, if you are willing, take this cup away from me; still, not my will but yours be done.”
After withdrawing about a stone’s throw from them and kneeling, he prayed, saying, “Father, if you are willing, take this cup away from me; still, not my will but yours be done.”
- Luke 21 41 - 42
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Nine_Two
Guest
What’s funny is that’s a verse Muslims commonly use to “prove” that Christ didn’t die on the cross. So apparently, according to Islam, he prayed improperly, and his prayer was answered.
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Cominghome89
Guest
I don’t know a single Catholic who would profess that they prostrate before an object, we prostrate before the One, True God, if we choose to prostrate in worship. Further, any Christian who does not prostrate while praying does not do so out of pride, but simply because it is the prayer of the heart that matters, not what the body is doing while one is praying.
This response makes me sad. You were asked why you as a Muslim have reason to believe that Muhammad was the prophet, you responded by talking about a bodily form of prayer. I said that I pray in this same way, and you told me that it didn’t mean I would realize the truth of your religion. So, again, what reason would one have to consider the Qu’ran as sacred scripture, or Muhammad as the prophet, when much evidence has been presented to the contrary. Not just through argument, but through miracles of the Catholic saints, the natural truth of Christian doctrine in the world, etc.?
Remember, all the arguments in the world will not convince people of the truth of the Catholic faith like living the Gospel can. By living a life of love, mercy and forgiveness, and praying for all non-Catholics, we will bring people home to the one, true faith.
Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!
Peace and blessings,
Frank
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
Forgive the rotfl smilie, but…Orthodoxy is an “obscure eastern sect”? It’s an apostolic Church and one of the largest in the world. You should know this, Islam has ruled most of the Orthodox lands for some 1400 years.
Then, as I suggested earlier, let me convert to Mormonism because of the miracle of the Book of Mormon. Again, a prophet who is going to claim to come from the same God as Jews and Christian must meet the standards set by that God, not new standards he himself creates.
I thought I recognized that post…I think I even responded to it in another thread…I’m sure someone did. I see many posters here are like bad film actors: don’t actually listen to what the other person is saying, simply let them finish their lines and then give what you have to say.
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IHeartAquinas
Guest
I would simply like to point out the absurdity of the progress of this topic.
The original question was “Why do Muslims Accept Muhammad as prophet?”
Hamba’s original response to this concerned prayer posture.
Then, for about three pages, Hamba discusses prayer posture, not as a means of accepting Muhammad as a prophet, but as the proper way to pray, pure and simple, in that it brings one closer to God. Then, later, he revisits the original argument for a brief period before abandoning the whole thing and saying the Qu’ran is the reason Muslims accept Muhammad as prophet.
So…following the entirety of Hamba’s argument…and I’m going to apply logic to what he has said.
Muslims accept Mohammad because they pray correctly.
The proof for this is that proper prayer position leads one closer to God as described in the Qu’ran.
Closeness to God can logically be cited as a means of being able to discern who is a prophet and who isn’t.
Because Muslim’s pray correctly and are close to God, they accept Mohammad as their prophet.
Problem: proper prayer method was described by Mohammad. Being the source of this information, Mohammad is responsible for all Muslims being close to God. Vis-a-vis, we can deductively reason that Mohammad must be divine for him to have pre-existing knowledge of the closeness of God prior to it being written down.
THEREFORE, if we accept the problem at face value and dismiss it as a problem but rather accept it as a “mystery,” we add the qualifier that Mohammad had a pre-existing divine nature that allowed him the closeness to God that otherwise requires proper prayer posture and we can properly reason that Mohammad is God.
Final problem? Mohammad says he is not God, that God is one, and any partnership with God is sin. Accepting Mohammad as God via Hamba’s logic requires one to have a belief in the divinity of a supposedly not-divine man, violating the entire Qu’ran. Belief in Mohammad, therefore, is a violation of the very text Hamba claims to be the miracle of Mohammad and the final proof-positive of his prophethood. Therefore, the fundamental statement of Islam: “There is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger” contains within it the very contradiction that violates the entire religion.
Vis-a-vis, Mohammad is NOT the messenger of God, Islam is NOT in any way a vessel of any iota of truth, and Allah is NOT God.
There is no God but God, and Jesus Christ is His Son.
I like that one better anyway.
The original question was “Why do Muslims Accept Muhammad as prophet?”
Hamba’s original response to this concerned prayer posture.
Then, for about three pages, Hamba discusses prayer posture, not as a means of accepting Muhammad as a prophet, but as the proper way to pray, pure and simple, in that it brings one closer to God. Then, later, he revisits the original argument for a brief period before abandoning the whole thing and saying the Qu’ran is the reason Muslims accept Muhammad as prophet.
So…following the entirety of Hamba’s argument…and I’m going to apply logic to what he has said.
Muslims accept Mohammad because they pray correctly.
The proof for this is that proper prayer position leads one closer to God as described in the Qu’ran.
Closeness to God can logically be cited as a means of being able to discern who is a prophet and who isn’t.
Because Muslim’s pray correctly and are close to God, they accept Mohammad as their prophet.
Problem: proper prayer method was described by Mohammad. Being the source of this information, Mohammad is responsible for all Muslims being close to God. Vis-a-vis, we can deductively reason that Mohammad must be divine for him to have pre-existing knowledge of the closeness of God prior to it being written down.
THEREFORE, if we accept the problem at face value and dismiss it as a problem but rather accept it as a “mystery,” we add the qualifier that Mohammad had a pre-existing divine nature that allowed him the closeness to God that otherwise requires proper prayer posture and we can properly reason that Mohammad is God.
Final problem? Mohammad says he is not God, that God is one, and any partnership with God is sin. Accepting Mohammad as God via Hamba’s logic requires one to have a belief in the divinity of a supposedly not-divine man, violating the entire Qu’ran. Belief in Mohammad, therefore, is a violation of the very text Hamba claims to be the miracle of Mohammad and the final proof-positive of his prophethood. Therefore, the fundamental statement of Islam: “There is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger” contains within it the very contradiction that violates the entire religion.
Vis-a-vis, Mohammad is NOT the messenger of God, Islam is NOT in any way a vessel of any iota of truth, and Allah is NOT God.
There is no God but God, and Jesus Christ is His Son.
I like that one better anyway.
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hamba2han
Guest
In order for Christians to properly worship God, they really do need to follow Jesus (pbuh) in the most profound way possible i.e. by praying in the manner that he himself prayed.
In a book entitled, “To Pray as a Jew”, a lengthy explanation is given of the Prayers as done by the ancient Jews and a few of the contemporary Jews. In this book the author put diagrams showing the movement and positions during the prayer and one quickly realizes the similarity of the prayers of the Jews then and the Salat as practiced by the Muslims.
http://www.submission.org/jews-1.jpghttp://www.submission.org/jews-2.jpg
In his comment about these positions the author wrote : "In most contemporary congregations very few people keep to the tradition of falling prostrate. Sometimes it is only the Prayer leader and the rabbi who does so. In more traditional congregations, however, some worshipers, men and women, will join the Prayer Leader and rabbi in the act of prostrating themselves.
In Israeli synagogues, the practice is more widespread than in synagogues elsewhere. Since this is a position that we are unaccustomed to, one who has never done this before might very well demur. But once accomplished, the experience provides such a spiritual uplift that one looks forward to repeating it.
It is also interesting to learn from this book that the prayers of the Jews involve wash before the prayers, (like Wuduu or ablution for Muslims), and the call for Prayers (like the Azan for the Muslims).
And so then, since the Christians reading this post now know that Jesus (pbuh) both knelt and prostrated when he prayed, why are they choosing to only kneel and not prostrate when they themselves pray?
Why do Christians CHOOSE to only kneel and not prostrate?.. Why, Why, WHY??
There MUST be a reason why, shouldn’t there be?
An honest and critical self-analysis of their reasons for not wanting to prostrate to their Creator and Sustainer is absolutely essential for the sake of their own salvation.
Bear in mind that Satan too chose not to prostrate out of pride and as we all know, his pride cost him a place in Paradise.
In a book entitled, “To Pray as a Jew”, a lengthy explanation is given of the Prayers as done by the ancient Jews and a few of the contemporary Jews. In this book the author put diagrams showing the movement and positions during the prayer and one quickly realizes the similarity of the prayers of the Jews then and the Salat as practiced by the Muslims.
http://www.submission.org/jews-1.jpghttp://www.submission.org/jews-2.jpg
In his comment about these positions the author wrote : "In most contemporary congregations very few people keep to the tradition of falling prostrate. Sometimes it is only the Prayer leader and the rabbi who does so. In more traditional congregations, however, some worshipers, men and women, will join the Prayer Leader and rabbi in the act of prostrating themselves.
In Israeli synagogues, the practice is more widespread than in synagogues elsewhere. Since this is a position that we are unaccustomed to, one who has never done this before might very well demur. But once accomplished, the experience provides such a spiritual uplift that one looks forward to repeating it.
It is also interesting to learn from this book that the prayers of the Jews involve wash before the prayers, (like Wuduu or ablution for Muslims), and the call for Prayers (like the Azan for the Muslims).
And so then, since the Christians reading this post now know that Jesus (pbuh) both knelt and prostrated when he prayed, why are they choosing to only kneel and not prostrate when they themselves pray?
Why do Christians CHOOSE to only kneel and not prostrate?.. Why, Why, WHY??
There MUST be a reason why, shouldn’t there be?
An honest and critical self-analysis of their reasons for not wanting to prostrate to their Creator and Sustainer is absolutely essential for the sake of their own salvation.
Bear in mind that Satan too chose not to prostrate out of pride and as we all know, his pride cost him a place in Paradise.
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staffsgt7
Guest
Do you guys really think that hamba2 is really going to accept your explanations? Seriously, I think that he has an idea how you guys should pray and that is that. His posts show no signs that he is reading your explanations because he goes on with the same thing over and over again.
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planten
Guest
I am surprised at the investigation by hamba of Jewish mode of prayer. If that is true and Jesus who was a Jew, I am sure Jesus and all his disciples must have prayed in that manner.
It appears here that no one is interested in Jesus and the way he prayed or the way he lived or the what he ate and drank. No harm to Muslims. The Christians and Catholics need to consider the practices. It may be useful to follow Jesus as a model.
Prayer is an important part of a religion. It should be followed properly. But perhaps the Catholics think that they are empowered to modify the mode and method of prayer too, as they like.
The Catholics feel they have to follow the good teachings of Love only. So it is good.
Atheists have nothing to worry. They have No need of any prayers.
Jews are active followers of their faith. So they are benefitted. WE do not want any of the christians to become Muslims, or the Jews to become Muslims. They can remain on their own faith and in a good proper way.
Sometime the Cathlics question the Muslims about their mode of prayers. So Hamba has done good work to prove that Muslism are on the right path, same as it was taught by God to the earlier prophets.
It appears here that no one is interested in Jesus and the way he prayed or the way he lived or the what he ate and drank. No harm to Muslims. The Christians and Catholics need to consider the practices. It may be useful to follow Jesus as a model.
Prayer is an important part of a religion. It should be followed properly. But perhaps the Catholics think that they are empowered to modify the mode and method of prayer too, as they like.
The Catholics feel they have to follow the good teachings of Love only. So it is good.
Atheists have nothing to worry. They have No need of any prayers.
Jews are active followers of their faith. So they are benefitted. WE do not want any of the christians to become Muslims, or the Jews to become Muslims. They can remain on their own faith and in a good proper way.
Sometime the Cathlics question the Muslims about their mode of prayers. So Hamba has done good work to prove that Muslism are on the right path, same as it was taught by God to the earlier prophets.
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Jay53
Guest
Jesus also gave us His Body and Blood and said “Do this in remembrance of Me.” Where do Muslims follow this teaching of Jesus?
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staffsgt7
Guest
how about answering the question of this thread? I don’t care how Hamba2 goes on about his worrying about how others pray - answer the question.
Atheists do too need to worry. We are not even given the option of subjugation in Islam. We have only the options of die or revert to Islam.
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Religion27
Guest
Salam
I would like to answer your question
We muslims recognize Mouhamed (Salla Allaho Alayhi wa Sallam) as the prophet of all the humanity and at any time. He is the last prophet.
We also recognize all the other prophets mentioned In koran.
I personally, admire, respect and love our prophet because he was a good person who loves doing good things. He was tolerant, generous, patient, wise, and civilized. All this is proved and understood if one reads about his life.
Our prophet Mohamed (Salla Allaho Alayhi wa Sallam) used to criticize people in a civilized way, taking their feeling into consideration. For instance, He (Salla Allaho Alayhi wa Sallam) asked us to advise people softly and privately.
I can not describe Him (Salla Allaho Alayhi wa Sallam) in few words, simply because he is very very very great.
Thank you very much
I would like to answer your question
We muslims recognize Mouhamed (Salla Allaho Alayhi wa Sallam) as the prophet of all the humanity and at any time. He is the last prophet.
We also recognize all the other prophets mentioned In koran.
I personally, admire, respect and love our prophet because he was a good person who loves doing good things. He was tolerant, generous, patient, wise, and civilized. All this is proved and understood if one reads about his life.
Our prophet Mohamed (Salla Allaho Alayhi wa Sallam) used to criticize people in a civilized way, taking their feeling into consideration. For instance, He (Salla Allaho Alayhi wa Sallam) asked us to advise people softly and privately.
I can not describe Him (Salla Allaho Alayhi wa Sallam) in few words, simply because he is very very very great.
Thank you very much
J
Jay53
Guest
A very nice response, but it doesn’t completely answer the question. If you meet another “good person who loves doing good things”, “was tolerant, generous, patient, wise, and civilized.” will you consider them to be a prophet of God too?
Muhammad contradicts previous scriptures. Why do you choose to believe him and not stick with the scriptures already proven to be from God?
And welcome to the forums!
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staffsgt7
Guest
Mohammed was less than civilized in criticizing people. Lobbing off heads is not a civilized conversation. The breaking of a peace treaty was the epitome of a less than civilized response then afterwards beheading all the men and enslaving the women and children which set the tone for the rest of his prophethood.
Let me give some other examples of the traits you give to him.
tolerant - assasinated two poets, one being an old man over 100 yrs old and another a woman still suckling her baby
Generous - attacking caravans so as to grab their loot, and women and children for himself and his followers
Wise - figured out how to justify him taking a child bride, his son’s wife and pass off rape as god’s will.
Civilized - telling his followers that deception was ok if it advanced Islam, and on and on
The thing is that whatever Mohammed did in Islam is ok. He proclaimed himself a prophet, and he put himself equal to his god by saying that he is to be the judge of men after they die too.
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
I’m just ignoring hamba’s posts right now, given the absurdity of responding to the question “Why do Muslims accept Mohammad a prophet” with the answer “You Christians should prostrate!” It’s not even worth pondering over, especially if the person, as you said, isn’t even really responding but simply repeating themselves. Repeating an argument without demonstrating that argument is a sign that no real argument is present.
I’m hoping that another Muslim member will eventually enter into honest dialogue regarding this.
Oh and by the way…
No kids! Don’t prostrate before that icon of Christ! You’ll realize Mohammad’s a prophet! Don’t do it! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!~
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