Why do Muslims Accept Muhammad as prophet?

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Byzantine_Wolf said:
Perhaps for the solo scriptura crowd, but for those Christians who have done their research it is far more. One who studies patristics and textual evidence, for example, sees there are many reasons to believe in the validity of the Gospels as historical documents. They also do not “worship” the gospels because we identify it as God’s providence working through man, not the literal word of God - the only literal Word of God is Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, God gave plenty of evidence of His divinity throughout His ministry.

…wha? :eek:
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Yup B.Wolf… Zaki is questioning islam right now. He has a thread on here regarding that…
 
Regarding examples from the Bible showing such reverence…take the passages in context…God was revealing Himself to Moses…the Apostles were taken by the Holy Spirit with such profound revelations, their immediate response was as such.

I have never come out of my room or chapel with my face brightly lit as Moses was when having received the 10 commandments…

When certain apostles received revelations…how many people were watching/eavesdropping on the side…that if they were there, did not hear or understand and probably kept on standing…? We don’t know if there were any followers or bystanders at those times…

You won’t win taking an adversarial position with Christians and their Bible, because you are already taking parts out of context.
 
KathleenGee said:
Out of my feminine mystic, I do not want to put my bottom up in the air to pray for others to see. To prostrate on the floor yes, but in total privacy… in the manner Jesus said…

‘When you pray…go to your room/closet and shut the door, and pray to the Father…’ He also condemned people praying in public with long prayers, certain clothes and tassels for everyone to see.

So here is another example that we believe in the one true Christ, not the gnostic of Muhammed.
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The woman’s prayer at home is described in Islam as the “best” prayer for women.

Consider the following hadeeth:

"Umm Humayd, the wife of Abu Humayd al-Saa‘idi reported that she came to the Prophet, peace be upon him, and said: “O Messenger of Allah, I love to pray with you.” He said: “I know that you love to pray with me, but praying in your house is better for you than praying in your courtyard, and praying in your courtyard is better for you than praying in the mosque of your people, and praying in the mosque of your people is better for you than praying in my mosque.” So she ordered that a prayer-place be built for her in the furthest and darkest part of her house, and she always prayed there until she met Allaah (i.e., until she died)."

When Jesus (pbuh) recommended prayers to be done at home, are Christians so sure that he was not directing this piece of advice to women only and not men?

I mean, why build the Temple of Solomon and other places of worship if prayers are best done at home for everyone, both male and female?
 
hamba2han said:
The woman’s prayer at home is described in Islam as the “best” prayer for women.

Consider the following hadeeth:

"Umm Humayd, the wife of Abu Humayd al-Saa‘idi reported that she came to the Prophet, peace be upon him, and said: “O Messenger of Allah, I love to pray with you.” He said: “I know that you love to pray with me, but praying in your house is better for you than praying in your courtyard, and praying in your courtyard is better for you than praying in the mosque of your people, and praying in the mosque of your people is better for you than praying in my mosque.” So she ordered that a prayer-place be built for her in the furthest and darkest part of her house, and she always prayed there until she met Allaah (i.e., until she died)."

When Jesus (pbuh) recommended prayers to be done at home, are Christians so sure that he was not directing this piece of advice to women and not men?

I mean, why build the Temple of Solomon and other places of worship if prayers are best done at home for everyone, male and female?
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The Temple was a place of offering sacrifices to God as well as prayer. The ancient Jews could pray anywhere, but only at the temple (when it existed) could sacrifices be offered
 
hamba2han said:
The woman’s prayer at home is described in Islam as the “best” prayer for women.

Consider the following hadeeth:

"Umm Humayd, the wife of Abu Humayd al-Saa‘idi reported that she came to the Prophet, peace be upon him, and said: “O Messenger of Allah, I love to pray with you.” He said: “I know that you love to pray with me, but praying in your house is better for you than praying in your courtyard, and praying in your courtyard is better for you than praying in the mosque of your people, and praying in the mosque of your people is better for you than praying in my mosque.” So she ordered that a prayer-place be built for her in the furthest and darkest part of her house, and she always prayed there until she met Allaah (i.e., until she died)."

When Jesus (pbuh) recommended prayers to be done at home, are Christians so sure that he was not directing this piece of advice to women only and not men?

I mean, why build the Temple of Solomon and other places of worship if prayers are best done at home for everyone, both male and female?
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I believe it’s best for you to read the Bible regarding the Holy of Holies during Moses time and the building of Solomons Temple which contained the Holy of Holies because you apparently see it or understand it as a “worship” home for all…

Jesus didn’t say in the Bible… “you women pray in your homes…” To Jesus there was no descrimination from men to women. He loved them both equally.

The most significant part of Solomon’s temple was the Holy of Holies for animal sacrifices to & for God. Before Solomon built this temple, Moses & his people constructed one in the desert based on God’s instructions. Solomon then did the same in his time.

Before one can enter the place there was a basin/bowl for washing up.

If had The Arc of the Covenant with the 10 stone Commandments God gave to Moses.

There was also a table with 12 loaves of bread to represent the 12 tribed of Israel

The Lampstand with the 7 arms to hold 7 candles

The Incenese Altar

The Arc was covererd with the Atonement cover

And there was a great big heavy curtain seperating the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place.

No man can enter the Holy of Holies.

There was a big courtyard and that’s where the people/priests prayed but only the High Priest/Prophets were allowed in the Holy Place for bread/blood sacrafice and the candle ritual.
 
jakasaki said:
I believe it’s best for you to read the Bible regarding the Holy of Holies during Moses time and the building of Solomons Temple which contained the Holy of Holies because you apparently see it or understand it as a “worship” home for all…

Jesus didn’t say in the Bible… “you women pray in your homes…” To Jesus there was no descrimination from men to women. He loved them both equally.

The most significant part of Solomon’s temple was the Holy of Holies for animal sacrifices to & for God. Before Solomon built this temple, Moses & his people constructed one in the desert based on God’s instructions. Solomon then did the same in his time.

Before one can enter the place there was a basin/bowl for washing up.

If had The Arc of the Covenant with the 10 stone Commandments God gave to Moses.

There was also a table with 12 loaves of bread to represent the 12 tribed of Israel

The Lampstand with the 7 arms to hold 7 candles

The Incenese Altar

The Arc was covererd with the Atonement cover

And there was a great big heavy curtain seperating the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place.

No man can enter the Holy of Holies.

There was a big courtyard and that’s where the people/priests prayed but only the High Priest/Prophets were allowed in the Holy Place for bread/blood sacrafice and the candle ritual.
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jakasaki, thanks for this good information. It was all very good while it lasted. I wonder if those ten stone commandments (tablets) are preserved even now? Are any loaves available with the Jews today? Have the Jews got any of those sacred relics today? Any one knowing these things may please reply.
 
I know that some muslims say stupid things but then again so do christians-i was saying that you should be fair in your disdain to liars/ignorant ppl spreading misinformation.

Oh btw, that is why i replied to your post-bcz i was expecting more from you especially considering how logical you are and considering how stupid the opinions expressed here from BOTH muslims and christians here were. 🙂
 
I think we’re getting a tad bit off-topic.

So um…why do Muslims Accept Muhammad as prophet?
 
I think we’re getting a tad bit off-topic.
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So um…why do Muslims Accept Muhammad as prophet?
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I’m going to go out on a limb here…and using my knowledge of pre-Islamic Arabia, I’m going to do a fair amount of conjecturing. I’m probably wrong on some of the historical points I bring up, but, I believe my argument may be solid.

Before Islam, the “King’s Road” connected Anatolia to Egypt via Syria and Palestine. This road still exists. It runs right through the biggest cities of Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, etc. It is one of the oldest, longest-used, and profitable land-based trading routes in history. Christians and Jews populated its urban centers, and often traded with the Pagan tribes of Arabia. However, early Christian communities often had a lot of zealous evangelists amongst them that were trying to convert the Pagans of the region. Christianity held a high esteem for the Jewish people (in theory) and celebrated them as God’s Chosen People. They couldn’t be too aggressive (in theory) and so had to turn their aggressive evangelizing on others. Hence, the Arabs. Roman (and later, Byzantine) trading practices often heavily favored Christian traders after Constantine, and huge tariffs were applied when selling goods to non-Christians. Given the chaos of tribal Arabia, and the huge amounts of wealth to be had in the Eastern Roman Empire, Arabs flocked to Christian markets only to find themselves being preached at, swindled, and cheated.

Along comes Muhammad who not only promises that Allah will end the corruption of the Pagan tribesmen, but also bring wealth and glory to the Arabs.

He was answering a major social ill of Arabia at the time. Not only were Arabs being abused by their own masters, when they went elsewhere, they also found abuse. The parts in the Quran that don’t discuss killing each other or espousing machismo are usually pretty much in line with an egalitarian view of the world. Those that accept Islam cannot be slaves. They will own the slaves–a sure sign in that time of wealth and power. Even the poorest of the poor in Muhammad’s time were promised a better, easier, more peaceful life if they converted to Islam.

After the unification of Arabia, Muhammad was less a charismatic political figure to follow and transformed into a religious icon. A new justification for his position as prophet had to be found, and this is where we get the circular logic.

My point being that, originally, Muhammad’s “revelation” provided for a desperate need amongst the Arabian communities in which he was preaching. They had little other reason to believe what he was saying. It was only after he died and most of Arabia was Muslim that the question arose “Well, why should we believe in him as prophet?” And that is where the crazy “Because he’s effing Muhammad!” comes into play, and why no serious study has ever come out in the form of a Muslim apologist to explain why he is a prophet.
 
jakasaki said:
I believe it’s best for you to read the Bible regarding the Holy of Holies during Moses time and the building of Solomons Temple which contained the Holy of Holies because you apparently see it or understand it as a “worship” home for all…

Jesus didn’t say in the Bible… “you women pray in your homes…” To Jesus there was no discrimination from men to women. He loved them both equally.

The most significant part of Solomon’s temple was the Holy of Holies for animal sacrifices to & for God. Before Solomon built this temple, Moses & his people constructed one in the desert based on God’s instructions. Solomon then did the same in his time.

Before one can enter the place there was a basin/bowl for washing up.

If had The Arc of the Covenant with the 10 stone Commandments God gave to Moses.

There was also a table with 12 loaves of bread to represent the 12 tribed of Israel

The Lampstand with the 7 arms to hold 7 candles

The Incenese Altar

The Arc was covererd with the Atonement cover

And there was a great big heavy curtain seperating the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place.

No man can enter the Holy of Holies.

There was a big courtyard and that’s where the people/priests prayed but only the High Priest/Prophets were allowed in the Holy Place for bread/blood sacrafice and the candle ritual.
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I have highlighted two points which you have brought up:
  1. If it was better to pray at home, then why did people go to the big courtyard to pray?
  2. Were there women priests at Solomon’s Temple during the time of Jesus (pbuh)?
Anyhow, Islam also teaches that it is better to pray at home for both men and women when it comes to the voluntary or optional prayers as opposed to the obligatory 5 daily prayers which are best performed at the mosque for men.
 
hamba2han said:
I have highlighted two points which you have brought up:
  1. If it was better to pray at home, then why did people go to the big courtyard to pray?
  2. Were there women priests at Solomon’s Temple during the time of Jesus (pbuh)?
Anyhow, Islam also teaches that it is better to pray at home for both men and women when it comes to the voluntary or optional prayers as opposed to the obligatory 5 daily prayers which are best performed at the mosque for men.
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Sorry Hamba - I will not answer your questions due to this thread jacking.

Please open a new thread to discuss Solomons Temple and how Christians pray… etc…
 
IHeartAquinas said:
I’m going to go out on a limb here…and using my knowledge of pre-Islamic Arabia, I’m going to do a fair amount of conjecturing. I’m probably wrong on some of the historical points I bring up, but, I believe my argument may be solid.

Before Islam, the “King’s Road” connected Anatolia to Egypt via Syria and Palestine. This road still exists. It runs right through the biggest cities of Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, etc. It is one of the oldest, longest-used, and profitable land-based trading routes in history. Christians and Jews populated its urban centers, and often traded with the Pagan tribes of Arabia. However, early Christian communities often had a lot of zealous evangelists amongst them that were trying to convert the Pagans of the region. Christianity held a high esteem for the Jewish people (in theory) and celebrated them as God’s Chosen People. They couldn’t be too aggressive (in theory) and so had to turn their aggressive evangelizing on others. Hence, the Arabs. Roman (and later, Byzantine) trading practices often heavily favored Christian traders after Constantine, and huge tariffs were applied when selling goods to non-Christians. Given the chaos of tribal Arabia, and the huge amounts of wealth to be had in the Eastern Roman Empire, Arabs flocked to Christian markets only to find themselves being preached at, swindled, and cheated.

Along comes Muhammad who not only promises that Allah will end the corruption of the Pagan tribesmen, but also bring wealth and glory to the Arabs.

He was answering a major social ill of Arabia at the time. Not only were Arabs being abused by their own masters, when they went elsewhere, they also found abuse. The parts in the Quran that don’t discuss killing each other or espousing machismo are usually pretty much in line with an egalitarian view of the world. Those that accept Islam cannot be slaves. They will own the slaves–a sure sign in that time of wealth and power. Even the poorest of the poor in Muhammad’s time were promised a better, easier, more peaceful life if they converted to Islam.

After the unification of Arabia, Muhammad was less a charismatic political figure to follow and transformed into a religious icon. A new justification for his position as prophet had to be found, and this is where we get the circular logic.

My point being that, originally, Muhammad’s “revelation” provided for a desperate need amongst the Arabian communities in which he was preaching. They had little other reason to believe what he was saying. It was only after he died and most of Arabia was Muslim that the question arose “Well, why should we believe in him as prophet?” And that is where the crazy “Because he’s effing Muhammad!” comes into play, and why no serious study has ever come out in the form of a Muslim apologist to explain why he is a prophet.
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Islam didn’t grow until Mohammed started ATTACKING others. Very few people followed Mohammed until he left to Medina where he gained in power. What he gathered around him initially were mostly his family, a very few friends and some slaves.

His ‘revelation’ usually revolved around the promises of some sort to keep his men fighting. He had to promise rewards to them all the time, and coerce them all the time because they didn’t always want to fight. He made fighting a holy thing and promised them heavenly rewards to a desert people - rivers of water, abundant food, women and little boys, and even has his Allah a supplier of Satan’s stock of wine.

HIs wealth grew as the more caravans and cities that were poorly armed were attacked and he could steal the goods, and women and children as slaves. His men’s wealth grew, but so did his coffers since he said Allah said he could get 1/5th the loot from any attack. He made anyone who didn’t believe in him as his enemy, and if threatened and bullied anyone who left. He wrapped holiness around atrocious acts such as murder, torture, enslavement, rape, assasination, etc.

At one point he realized that killing off all the non-mohammedan men wasn’t such a good idea because they were the farmers, the traders, and other things to keep life going so he decided to subjugate them and let them know that if they accept subjugation they were to feel subdued, humiliated, daily; and they were to give him and his fellow mohammedans a tax that sometimes extended past death.

I think your version of how Islam is spread is a pipe dream or some twisted version that Muslims have told you. It was spread by the sword, by terror, he kept no promise (cease fire or treaty), he deceived his enemy, he killed the poets who were the news of his time. Basically, he was a fascist and practiced what fascists practice - kill of anyone who disagrees with him, and make them the enemy, terrorize, and lie. He would reward his men for torturing others, tearing old women apart, for bringing him more loot and slaves.

The whole thing is sick.
 
hamba2han said:
I have asked this question earlier and I think it is worth asking it again:

If Christians really WANT to prostrate regularly to the Lord, then what is stopping them from doing so?

And saying that some obscure “eastern sect” of Christians do prostrate does not at all answer this question which is directed at every individual Christian.

Why do YOU yourself not want to prostrate regularly to the Lord?
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Let’s see if this helps to clear things. I don’t think it matters whether you pray standing on your head. God knows what’s in our hearts.

Now…as far as Mohammed being a prophet…

The New Testament says that the angel Gabriel told Mary that she would conceive the Son of God. Hmmmm…was it Gabriel that later denied Jesus being Divine? Or was it a dark angel in disguise? I know the answer to that question…and so do other Christians. Lots of people were fooled by Satan 600 years after the birth, death, and ressurection of Christ.
 
Didn’t mean to endure the hijack, but I couldn’t resist, and seeing what happened to the Christians on Christmas Day in Bethlehem a few years back, and then seeing Moslems praying at the Columbia River Gorge at a park, men as well as the women in black with all their mats on a summer day…it doesn’t convey the same message but something else…

And the Catholic and orthodox churches with their sanctuaries holding the One True God…the same one Who was worshiped in the Temple…is sacred space…holding the Divine…but when we enter, we renew our Baptismal promises by blessing ourselves with holy water, make the sign of the Cross…we are mark ourselves with the sign of Christ’s ultimate sacrifice…and we have the candlelight…next to the Tabernacle as a sign that His Eucharist is there…if it is removed, the sanctuary light is not lit…we have the Altar of Sacrifice, we have sacred symbols and icons and paintings of Jesus and His Mother, the Last Supper, a state of Mary, Queen of Heaven and Earth in mine, …we have sacred space on the altar where the Word of God is announced…

And during the Mass, after the greeting and the public absolution of ordinary sin through the priest, the Liturgy of the Word begins, the entire Church becomes an arena to relive the Word of God in the Old Testament, we witness again the events of the salvation history of the Jews…to the Psalms of praise and thanksgiving, to the Epistles…then the priest comes forward to read the Gospels and preach to us…all in the way and manner and intent of the original apostles…We have colors in the vestments and in some banners representing the liturgical time of the year, which will end this coming Sunday. We express meaning in our standing and sitting and kneeling, at specific points of the Mass…and at the Liturgy of the Eucharist, which begins at the offering of every aspect of our lives with the only true acceptable offering of Jesus Christ, the Son, to the Father, we come to the Sanctus…the same praise given Jesus at His birth by the Holy Angels…and words alike from the Old Testament of praise for the Divine…the is summed in the reception of His Body and Blood and followed by Thanksgiving and dismissal…

The daily Sacrifice of the Mass through Jesus Christ fulfills the daily sacrifice on the Jewish altar in ancient times, because Jesus was and is the Sacrificial Lamb, only that of God could truly please and atone God because we as creatures cannot…

If Muslims would atleast make an objective and academic study of Jewish religious practices of ancient times, and then read the Gospels in the context of the Jesus and His apostles…and see ancient Christian liturgy…and how its form essentially continues today, would be an immense help in dialogue.

Mohammed contradicted the True Jesus, the form of worship. But I also believe that all of mankind can discern the work of God in nature and in human events. True religion helps people recognize the universal common denominator that makes us human. So there are aspects of true religion within Islam…

But when it came to the revelation of Who God is, that was reserved for the Jewish race alone.

Muslims should check out Hebrewcatholic.org…Here Jewish people have become Catholic while retaining their Hebrew heritage…they say they now experience being Jewish much deeper and more profound than they were before Jesus…They have such deep insight into the Scriptures because it came from their history and culture.

I also concur that Mohammed’s message at the beginning did rightfully speak out against injustices towards the Arab people as well.
 
Why do Muslims Accept Muhammad as prophet?
To address the topic in hand, I may refer to the Old testament, Deut 18:21-22 as follows:

** 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.**

It is a good test for the truth of any prophet.
 
In case anyone hasn’t noticed, this thread was started, like many other threads here, with the intention of maligning the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Why people should find my posts to be so objectionable when I have not maligned anyone is beyond me… well, actually I think I do understand their motives and that is why I am on these boards i.e. to help bring people out of darkneess and into the light of Islam… which brings me to continue this topic of why Muslims accept the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Apart from the Qur’an, there are numerous other miracles that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) performed with the help of Allah and which have been recorded through isnad and the Science of Hadith and the following is just one of them:

On more than one occasion when people were in dire need of water, the blessing of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) saved them. In the sixth year after the he migrated from Mecca to Medina, Muhammad went to Mecca for pilgrimage. In the long journey through the desert, people ran out of all water, only the Prophet was left with a vessel with which he performed ablution for prayers. He put his hand in vessel, water began flowing from between his fingers. Jabir bin Abdullah, who witnessed the miracle, says of the fifteen hundred men, ‘We drank it and made ablution.’ This miracle has been transmitted with an unbroken chain of reliable scholars (hadith mutawatir).

The sprouting of water from human fingers is similar to Prophet Moses’ (pbuh) miracle of producing water from a rock.

And from Wikipedia:

Mutawatir (Arabic: متواتر) is an Arabic word meaning “consecutive.” It is often used as an Islamic term within the science of hadith. A hadith is said to be mutawatir if it was reported by a significant number of narrators at each chain in the narration, and therefore through multiple chains of narration leading back to Muhammad. This provides confirmation that the hadith is sahih to a level beyond reasonable doubt, as it is beyond historical possibility that narrators could have conspired to forge a narration. Hadiths can be mutawatir in both actual text and meaning.

In contrast, an ahaad hadith is a narration which at some point in the chain has only a single narrator.

The point here is that for those who are continually harping on the age of A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) when she married the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), remember that what you are proclaiming as an undeniable fact is actually a hadith which has been recorded based on her recollection alone.

On the other hand, in the case of the miracle described above, it is recorded as a hadith mutawatir i.e. an authentic hadith which is exceptionally strong to “a level beyond reasonable doubt”.

And so, if indeed you do believe the veracity of the hadith regarding A’ishah’s age at the time of her marriage, then there really is no reason at all why you should have any doubts whatsoever about the veracity of this hadith mutawatir describing the miracle of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) sprouting water from his fingers.

In short, if Christians are indeed insisting to see a miracle of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as “proof” that he is a true Prophet, then you have just been provided one.
 
I still want to know if Muhammed and other Muslims pray to God as Father as Jesus taught
 
Oops!.. did I say bring them into the light of Islam?

I meant show them the light of Islam so that they may come out of their dark ignorance and prejudice… if they so desire.
 
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