Why do Muslims believe that the Modern New Testament is corrupted?

[inJESUS]

:crying: :banghead:

 

[BHTech]

Since you are not particularly interested in big questions, then perhaps small examples would be of more interest to you.

The following is just one instance where the Bible does not get it quite right but the Qur’an, on the other hand, gets it absolutely spot on.

THE WORD “PHARAOH” IN THE QUR’AN

In the Old Testament, the Egyptian ruler during the period of Prophet Abraham (pbuh) and Prophet Joseph (pbuh) are named “Pharaoh”. However, this title was actually employed after the eras in which these two Prophets lived.

While addressing the Egyptian ruler at the time of Prophet Joseph (pbuh), the word “Al-Malik” in Arabic is used in the Qur’an: It refers to a ruler, king or sultan:

The King said, ‘Bring him to me straight away!’… (Qur’an, 12:50)

The ruler of Egypt in the time of the Prophet Moses (pbuh) is referred to as “Pharaoh”. This distinction in the Qur’an is not made in the Old and New Testaments nor by Jewish historians. In the Bible, the word “Pharaoh” is used, in every reference to an Egyptian monarch. On the other hand, the Qur’an is far more concise and accurate in the terminology it employs.

The use of the word “Pharaoh” in Egyptian history belongs only to the late period. This particular title began to be employed in the 14th century B.C., during the reign of Amenhotep IV. The Prophet Joseph (pbuh) lived at least 200 years before that time.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the word “Pharaoh” was a title of respect used from the New Kingdom (beginning with the 18th dynasty; B.C. 1539-1292) until the 22nd dynasty (B.C. 945-730), after which this term of address became the title of the king. Further information on this subject comes from the Academic American Encyclopaedia, which states that the title of Pharaoh began to be used in the New Kingdom.

As we have seen, the use of the word “Pharaoh” dates from a specific period in history. For that reason, the fact that the Qur’an distinguishes between the different Egyptian titles in different Egyptian eras is yet another proof that the Qur’an is the verbatim Speech of Allah.

**In this way We give you news of what has gone before and We have given you a reminder direct from Us. Those who turn away from it will bear a heavy burden on the Day of Rising. ** … (Qur’an, 20:99-100)

With all due respect friend can you not read and answer my question? I asked you to provide a source other than the Koran so that I can compare two documents or books side by side. I do not accept the Koran since it came much later than the Bible and I do not believe in Mohammed. As for the “Encyclopaedia Britannica” its origins are recent and it can say anything.

I await your document.

BHTech

 

[hamba2han]

The fact of the matter is that the Bible refers to the king of Egypt as ‘Pharaoh’ in Genesis when relating the story of Prophet Joseph (pbuh).

This is historically inaccurate because the king of Egypt during Joseph’s time was NOT called ‘Pharaoh’.

This error is not found in the Qur’an whereas the Old Testament and other Jewish scriptures do indeed make this mistake.

The following are excerpts from various articles in Wikipedia:

1. Pharaoh was a name for the office of kingship in the New Kingdom of ancient Egypt.
2. The New Kingdom, sometimes referred to as the Egyptian Empire, is the period in ancient Egyptian history between the 16th century BC and the 11th century BC, covering the Eighteenth, Nineteenth, and Twentieth Dynasties of Egypt.
3. Archaeological excavations of the remains of the Abydos mortuary temple of king Ahmose I in the 1990’s have uncovered thousands of fragmentary reliefs depicting this pharaoh’s battles against the Hyksos as well as the earliest known depiction of chariots in Egyptian warfare. This discovery affirms the general view that it was the Hyksos who first brought the chariot into Egypt and permits Joseph to have enjoyed a high position in office during the 15th Hyksos Dynasty as opposed to the later native Egyptian 18th Dynasty… The price of 20 Derham which was paid for Joseph’s slavery in Mesopotamia also affirms a relative date for Joseph in the 18th or 17th Century BC.

There is just absolutely no way that anyone living during the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) could have known about this particular inaccuracy in the Bible.

It is therefore reasonable to assume that at the time the Qur’an was revealed, it was only God Himself who would have known about this small but yet hugely significant detail regarding this inaccurate use of the word ‘Pharaoh’ when referring to the King of Egypt during the time of Prophet Joseph (pbuh).

 

[BHTech]

The fact of the matter is that the Bible refers to the king of Egypt as ‘Pharaoh’ in Genesis when relating the story of Prophet Joseph (pbuh).

This is historically inaccurate because the king of Egypt during Joseph’s time was not called ‘Pharaoh’.

This error is not found in the Qur’an whereas the Old Testament and other Jewish scriptures do indeed make this mistake.

Again with all due respect friend can you not read and answer my question? I asked you to provide a source other than the Koran so that I can compare two documents or books side by side. **I do not accept the Koran **since it came much later than the Bible and I do not believe in Mohammed.

I await your document.

 

[Delta2]

While addressing the Egyptian ruler at the time of Prophet Joseph (pbuh), the word “Al-Malik” in Arabic is used in the Qur’an: It refers to a ruler, king or sultan:

But it doesn’t say “Pharaoh”, but king…I have in here also a good translation of the Qu’ran…it came directly from Saudi Arabia…a gift from a forum

Al-Malik means sovereign or king, is true, and Al-Malik-ul-Mulk the eternal possessor of sovereignty…which should be more precise to Pharaoh title with a status of God in Old Egypt

Don’t make me laugh with your fallacies

Also the Bible talks about the King

And the king of Egypt said unto them, Wherefore do ye, Moses and Aaron, let the people from their works? get you unto your burdens.
Exodus, 5-4

 

[hamba2han]

Again with all due respect friend can you not read and answer my question? I asked you to provide a source other than the Koran so that I can compare two documents or books side by side. **I do not accept the Koran **since it came much later than the Bible and I do not believe in Mohammed.

I await your document.

Seems to me that you do not accept scientific findings by modern-day archeologists as well.

Is there a scientific reason why you would reject their research?

 

[BHTech]

Seems to me that you do not accept scientific findings by modern-day archeologists as well.

Is there a scientific reason why you would doubt their research?

Ah again you dodge the question ! Where is your proof or don’t you have any?

Please provide or web link me to a document accepted by the wider community that shows that the books in the Bible are corrupted, outside of the Koran. I want to compare what was originally written with what I have on my desk.

BHTech

 

[Delta2]

Seems to me that you do not accept scientific findings by modern-day archeologists as well.

Is there a scientific reason why you would doubt their research?

lol

A type of $cientific view from a “non-converted-to-islam” headed by Professor Maurice Bucaille ? a good $cientist … indeed

You gave him more money about his “must-read” book than you can’t ever imagine…a lot of petro-dollars

And he never converted to Islam… lol

Most of them clever reinterpretations of Arabic language

Ambiguous by nature

 

[hamba2han]

… Also the Bible talks about the King

But the king of Egypt said, “Moses and Aaron, why are you taking the people away from their labor? Get back to your work!” … (Exodus 5:4)

The Bible still does not get it right here as well because the “king of Egypt” during the time of Moses and Aaron (pbut) was called ‘Pharaoh’.

 

[thedavidwilson]

I think the BIG question that you are really asking is → Why were we created?

The question of ‘Why were we created and what is the purpose of our existence?’ is just so very fundamental and so supremely important in our reasons to even follow any faith at all… that it seems to me so incredulous that any scripture would not spell it out in very clear and unmistakable terms.

After all, God is NOT the author of confusion… and what could be more confusing to the creations if they themselves are not sure of the reason why they were created by their Creator and the purpose of their existence in this world?

What does this have to do the quote you referenced:

“Originally Posted by ralphinal
Please, is there any reason why the exact nature, time, and way the Bible was corrupted was not given? Would it not make it easier to show us where it is wrong and who changed it and why they did it?”

ralphinal is not asking how WE were created but how the bible was corrupted as the quran says. You should practice changing the subject when we have no evidence for an arguement. This is embarassing.

 

[BHTech]

But the king of Egypt said, “Moses and Aaron, why are you taking the people away from their labor? Get back to your work!” … (Exodus 5:4)

The Bible still does not get it right here as well because the “king” during the time of Moses and Aaron (pbut) was called ‘Pharaoh’.

How are your sources coming along? Still waiting for the proof.

BHTech

 

[BHTech]

What does this have to do the quote you referenced:

“Originally Posted by ralphinal
Please, is there any reason why the exact nature, time, and way the Bible was corrupted was not given? Would it not make it easier to show us where it is wrong and who changed it and why they did it?”

ralphinal is not asking how WE were created but how the bible was corrupted as the quran says. You should practice changing the subject when we have no evidence for an arguement. This is embarassing.

I’m still waiting on him to provide me with a source that tells me what the correct words of the Bible were!

BHTech

 

[Delta2]

But the king of Egypt said, “Moses and Aaron, why are you taking the people away from their labor? Get back to your work!” … (Exodus 5:4)

The Bible still does not get it right here as well because the “king of Egypt” during the time of Moses and Aaron (pbut) was called ‘Pharaoh’.

But where you have the name Pharaoh in the Qu’ran ? you have King as just the Bible

But the Bible, as I said earlier, it is not the Verbatim Word Of God

You are the only one that claims that the Qu’ran is the absolute word of God revealed to man…so it must be clear of bugs(errors)

But that claim is also a very uncomfortable thing, just because being a absolute Word of God or verbatim Word of God…you must understand it literally

which makes you a fundamentalist and a terrorist

Or…

you change and make adulterations of the Word of God in your heart and mind…by your own choice

what a shame

 

[Delta2]

The fact of the matter is that the Bible refers to the king of Egypt as ‘Pharaoh’ in Genesis when relating the story of Prophet Joseph (pbuh).

This is historically inaccurate because the king of Egypt during Joseph’s time was NOT called ‘Pharaoh’.

Bad translations into english or your native language as like the Qu’ran

I have in here many translations of the Qu’ran that doesn’t match

They are a case of English misunderstood of word-by-word translation of the Qu’ran, as like :

bi-badani-ka

in Sura 10:92

bi - means YOU
badani - is a clever change in arabic translation

“arasi wa badani” means “my horse and my shield”

ka - means YOUR

so that sura should be translated as :

This day shall We project you with your shield on a bulge in order that you may be a sign to those who come after you

Occasionaly, an Arabic word can express not only several related meanings but one of two opposite meanings

what a shame

 

[Angelos]

For those who are asking why did God allow the Bible to get corrupted, they need to look at what Jesus (pbuh) himself says in the Bible:

"I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 15:24) and also “These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: 'Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5-6)

And so, since Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel, then there really was no reason why Allah would need to preserve the Gospel that was given to him, was there?

Actually, this is a very funny comment! If Jesus was sent to Jews alone and this somehow enabled the crucial corruption of the Bible, why did Allah recurrently refer to his former revelations in the Koran to prove Mohammad’s prophetic ministry??? Why did Allah need to mention those supposedly corrupted texts to prove his claims???

More to the point, the preservation of the Bible would be crucial - no matter what - for the sake of Jews and Christians believing in them! How could Allah let the alleged corruption of the Bible possible without first making Jews and Christians believe in the Koran??

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), on the other hand, was sent as a Mercy for all of humankind and he is the Seal of the Prophets and so Allah has indeed promised to protect and preserve the Qur’an till the time when the world comes to an end.

Nevertheless, Allah denies that your scripture (the Koran) has a universal mission:

Surah 42: 7. And thus We have inspired in thee a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayst warn the mother-town and those around it, and mayst warn of a day of assembling whereof there is no doubt.

Surah 28:46 And thou was not beside the Mount when We did call; but (the knowledge of it is) a mercy from thy Lord that thou mayst warn a folk unto whom no warner came before thee, that haply they may give heed.

43:44. And lo! it is in truth a Reminder for thee and for thy folk; and ye will be questioned.

According to the verses above, Mohammad was the seal of the prophets sent by Allah to the whole world with a message addressing Mohammad’s folk (Arabs of that period) only!!! The authors of the Koran were clearly at a loss.

Final remarks:

**1)**How was it possible for Allah to send Mohammad as a messenger to the whole world even though Mohammad did not preach the Koran in any other place than Saudi Arabia until his death? Is the Koran telling lies?

**2)**Why was the Islamic message NOT carried outside the Arabian peninsula (even through Jihaad) before the conquest of Mecca and Mohammad’s death???

 

[Angelos]

The fact of the matter is that the Bible refers to the king of Egypt as ‘Pharaoh’ in Genesis when relating the story of Prophet Joseph (pbuh).

This is historically inaccurate because the king of Egypt during Joseph’s time was NOT called ‘Pharaoh’.

This error is not found in the Qur’an whereas the Old Testament and other Jewish scriptures do indeed make this mistake.

The following are excerpts from various articles in Wikipedia:

1. Pharaoh was a name for the office of kingship in the New Kingdom of ancient Egypt.
2. The New Kingdom, sometimes referred to as the Egyptian Empire, is the period in ancient Egyptian history between the 16th century BC and the 11th century BC, covering the Eighteenth, Nineteenth, and Twentieth Dynasties of Egypt.
3. Archaeological excavations of the remains of the Abydos mortuary temple of king Ahmose I in the 1990’s have uncovered thousands of fragmentary reliefs depicting this pharaoh’s battles against the Hyksos as well as the earliest known depiction of chariots in Egyptian warfare. This discovery affirms the general view that it was the Hyksos who first brought the chariot into Egypt and permits Joseph to have enjoyed a high position in office during the 15th Hyksos Dynasty as opposed to the later native Egyptian 18th Dynasty… The price of 20 Derham which was paid for Joseph’s slavery in Mesopotamia also affirms a relative date for Joseph in the 18th or 17th Century BC.

There is just absolutely no way that anyone living during the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) could have known about this particular inaccuracy in the Bible.

It is therefore reasonable to assume that at the time the Qur’an was revealed, it was only God Himself who would have known about this small but yet hugely significant detail regarding this inaccurate use of the word ‘Pharaoh’ when referring to the King of Egypt during the time of Prophet Joseph (pbuh).

Could you please quote the Koran verses that talk of several Pharaohs living at different times AFTER Joseph and one century BEFORE Moses? According to your scripture, there was only ONE Pharaoh, who suddenly appeared at the time of Moses and disappeared from human history when he was drowned by Allah in the Red Sea! Is this really what you designate as miraculous historic and scientific accuracy?

 

[Angelos]

But the king of Egypt said, “Moses and Aaron, why are you taking the people away from their labor? Get back to your work!” … (Exodus 5:4)

The Bible still does not get it right here as well because the “king of Egypt” during the time of Moses and Aaron (pbut) was called ‘Pharaoh’.

In both books of the Bible (Genesis and Exodus) the word KING is used interchangeably with the word PHARAOH. However, the Koran is alone in using the regal title PHARAOH as a personal name!

More, the Koran claims that the King of Egypt at Joseph’s time used the same means of punishment as the Pharaoh at Moses’ time:

Surah 12:41. O my two fellow-prisoners! As for one of you, he will pour out wine for his lord to drink; and as for the other, he will be crucified so that the birds will eat from his head. Thus is the case judged concerning which ye did inquire.

Surah 26:49 (Pharaoh) said: Ye put your faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he doubtless is your chief who taught you magic! But verily ye shall come to know. Verily I will cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and verily I will crucify you every one.

In short, the authors of the Koran at a time thought that Pharaoh and the King of Egypt were one and the same historical figure before mistakenly presuming that Pharaoh was the personal name of the Egyptian King living in Moses’ era.
.

 

[Angelos]

Since you are not particularly interested in big questions, then perhaps small examples would be of more interest to you.

The following is just one instance where the Bible does not get it quite right but the Qur’an, on the other hand, gets it absolutely spot on.

THE WORD “PHARAOH” IN THE QUR’AN

In the Old Testament, the Egyptian ruler during the period of Prophet Abraham (pbuh) and Prophet Joseph (pbuh) are named “Pharaoh”. However, this title was actually employed after the eras in which these two Prophets lived.

While addressing the Egyptian ruler at the time of Prophet Joseph (pbuh), the word “Al-Malik” in Arabic is used in the Qur’an: It refers to a ruler, king or sultan:

The King said, ‘Bring him to me straight away!’… (Qur’an, 12:50)

The ruler of Egypt in the time of the Prophet Moses (pbuh) is referred to as “Pharaoh”. This distinction in the Qur’an is not made in the Old and New Testaments nor by Jewish historians. In the Bible, the word “Pharaoh” is used, in every reference to an Egyptian monarch. On the other hand, the Qur’an is far more concise and accurate in the terminology it employs.

The use of the word “Pharaoh” in Egyptian history belongs only to the late period. This particular title began to be employed in the 14th century B.C., during the reign of Amenhotep IV. The Prophet Joseph (pbuh) lived at least 200 years before that time.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the word “Pharaoh” was a title of respect used from the New Kingdom (beginning with the 18th dynasty; B.C. 1539-1292) until the 22nd dynasty (B.C. 945-730), after which this term of address became the title of the king. Further information on this subject comes from the Academic American Encyclopaedia, which states that the title of Pharaoh began to be used in the New Kingdom.

As we have seen, the use of the word “Pharaoh” dates from a specific period in history. For that reason, the fact that the Qur’an distinguishes between the different Egyptian titles in different Egyptian eras is yet another proof that the Qur’an is the verbatim Speech of Allah.

How can you prove your allegations without knowing the exact periods when Joseph lived in Egypt and Moses was born?

Does your Koran say anything implicit or explicit about the dates of Joseph and Moses’ prophetic ministries? NO!

Does your Koran say anything explicit or implicit about the alleged historical coincidence of Moses’ birth with the innovated use of the title Pharaoh by Egyptian Kings? NO!

SO WHAT? Where is the miracle?

 

[ralphinal]

I ask when it was changed, no one tells me.

I ask who changed it, no one tells me.

I ask why it was changed, no one tells me.

I ask what was changd, no one tells me.

No one tells me because they do not know. Human history shows no change. God would know. Why did God not tell? Perhaps no changes were made. That is a logical deduction.

Sorry, Islam fails this test.

 

[Booklover]

Seems to me that you do not accept scientific findings by modern-day archeologists as well.

Is there a scientific reason why you would reject their research?

Since Muslims consider the Quran to be the *verbatim *word of God, why is it compiled in such a haphazard fashion by listing the suras by the longest first and the shortest last, instead of chronologically as it was supposedly revealed?

Vickie