Why do non-adherents think they are entitled to heaven?

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JohnStrachan

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I’m kind of curious why non-adherents of the RC church, or any denomination for that matter, believe heaven awaits them despite their lack of practice, belief or both.

I am reminded of a funeral I attended a few years back where the daughter of the deceased - and ardent agnostic - shared her belief that her father would be in heaven because despite her non belief, she couldn’t bring herself to comprehend that life on earth was all there is.

So what gives? If you don’t believe in God or any of the traditions and practices associated with faith, why do you believe you are entitled to eternal life?

But I’ve been a good person? So what. What’s with the entitlement? If God was go enough for you during life, why do you believe the pearly gates will open up at the end of your time on earth?
 
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JohnStrachan said:
I’m kind of curious why non-adherents of the RC church, or any denomination for that matter, believe heaven awaits them despite their lack of practice, belief or both.
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I’m always bemused by the number of believers who think the same.
 
I have no expectation of eternal life.

I think people do live on after death in four senses:
  1. our molecules remain, and we become again the star dust of which we were always made
  2. our actions continue to repercussions both those we intend and those we do not
  3. our genetic material is passed on to our children and their children, and its identical copies in other creatures passed on to theirs
  4. we continue to exist in the memories, and the elaboration of those memories in the minds of others and in other forms of record keeping (books, CAF archives etc.)
There is also the issue that while you John (the OP) believe in a particular God, there are hundreds of other gods in which you do not believe. So I ask the same question you pose to me of you:

If Zeus and Odin were not good enough for you in life, why do you believe they will open their pearly gates to you?
 
FiveLinden said:
I have no expectation of eternal life.

I think people do live on after death in four senses:
  1. our molecules remain, and we become again the star dust of which we were always made
  2. our actions continue to repercussions both those we intend and those we do not
  3. our genetic material is passed on to our children and their children, and its identical copies in other creatures passed on to theirs
  4. we continue to exist in the memories, and the elaboration of those memories in the minds of others and in other forms of record keeping (books, CAF archives etc.)
There is also the issue that while you John (the OP) believe in a particular God, there are hundreds of other gods in which you do not believe. So I ask the same question you pose to me of you:

If Zeus and Odin were not good enough for you in life, why do you believe they will open their pearly gates to you?
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I read recently someone discussing mortality. And he said that at some point someone will have the very last thought of you. Quite poignant I thought. ‘All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain’.

Five points if you know the quote without looking it up.
 
FiveLinden said:
If Zeus and Odin were not good enough for you in life, why do you believe they will open their pearly gates to you?
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Zeus and Odin are gods in a polytheistic worldview. Why would I need to go through their gates when I can go to my own God’s gates?

That’s much more of a problem for you.
 
Neithan said:
Zeus and Odin are gods in a polytheistic worldview. Why would I need to go through their gates when I can go to my own God’s gates?
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This assumes your belief is correct. The point is: all believers in a single god or group of gods run the risk that their belief is wrong, and that someone else who believes in another god is right. So believers are not much better off than us non-believers - they gamble on their god, and none someone else’s being real. We non-believers have slightly worse odds because we gamble that no one’s god(s) is real.
 
Freddy said:
I read recently someone discussing mortality. And he said that at some point someone will have the very last thought of you. Quite poignant I thought. ‘All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain’.
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Agreed. Most poignant. And I lose the points!
 
FiveLinden said:
We non-believers have slightly worse odds because we gamble that no one’s god(s) is real.
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So all things considered, it’s better to believe in God than not.

The point I was making about Zeus and Odin though, is that in a polytheistic worldview, it’s entirely arbitrary to think that only your own gods are real. A monotheist has much better “odds” in polytheism than an atheist any way you look at it.
 
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Neithan said:
So all things considered, it’s better to believe in God than not
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Well you have to consider the advantages in this world. Mrs FiveLinden would count as one for me. I don’t think she would have been quite as responsive to my pleadings many years ago had I been a theist.
 
Weighing the advantages of this world would seem light against the heavy weight of eternity; but the “heart wants what it wants, or else it does not care.”
 
It’s a logical conclusion to reach. Christianity teaches that God is not only kind and understanding, but also merciful. It also teaches that God isn’t a disinterested referee, but rather personally loves every single human the way a father loves his newly-born child. God’s love for humanity is actually a point that Christianity belabors; God literally chose to become a human being and allow Himself to get murdered out of love for humanity.

So the idea that Heaven is the default destination - that God goes out of His way to get as many in as possible and humans have to go out of our way to be locked out - isn’t entitlement, it’s a sign that the person saying it actually understands the nature of God (or is at least on the right track).

Whenever someone claims “Good people will still burn in Hell!” or “Not all babies go to Heaven” or places more theological value on a passage about a narrow gate over a hundred passages about love and mercy it says to me that person is missing the point (to put it charitably).

It’s worth noting that the current Pope himself said a few times that people who died atheists can still go to Heaven; I think the heir to Saint Peter knows more about what God wants.
 
blackforest said:
I see it as a wonderful yearning, not a pathetic “entitlement.”
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Except that many people I encounter want the trappings of the after-life without any commitment in this one. The agnostic in my example, belittles God in conversation. She tells me she doesn’t need God in her life and thinks Christians are self-righteous. Yet she’d like to believe there is a heaven.
 
To me this yearning means there is hope that she can grow closer to God. I would worry if she were completely indifferent.

Either way, I advise you to pray for her and her eventual return. I think Christ would like us to do that.
 
Freddy said:
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FiveLinden:
I have no expectation of eternal life.

I think people do live on after death in four senses:
  1. our molecules remain, and we become again the star dust of which we were always made
  2. our actions continue to repercussions both those we intend and those we do not
  3. our genetic material is passed on to our children and their children, and its identical copies in other creatures passed on to theirs
  4. we continue to exist in the memories, and the elaboration of those memories in the minds of others and in other forms of record keeping (books, CAF archives etc.)
There is also the issue that while you John (the OP) believe in a particular God, there are hundreds of other gods in which you do not believe. So I ask the same question you pose to me of you:

If Zeus and Odin were not good enough for you in life, why do you believe they will open their pearly gates to you?
Click to expand...
I read recently someone discussing mortality. And he said that at some point someone will have the very last thought of you. Quite poignant I thought. ‘All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain’.

Five points if you know the quote without looking it up.
Click to expand...
Blade Runner…

I prefer this passage from this book…The Sheltering Sky

“Death is always on the way, but the fact that you don’t know when it will arrive seems to take away from the finiteness of life. It’s that terrible precision that we hate so much. But because we don’t know, we get to think of life as an inexhaustible well. Yet everything happens a certain number of times, and a very small number, really. How many more times will you remember a certain afternoon of your childhood, some afternoon that’s so deeply a part of your being that you can’t even conceive of your life without it? Perhaps four or five times more. Perhaps not even. How many more times will you watch the full moon rise? Perhaps twenty. And yet it all seems limitless.”
― Paul Bowles,
 
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