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Dan_Defender
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Perfect knowledge is not the standard. Humans do not have perfect knowledge. Rejection is an act of the will. There have to be consequences in order for justice to prevail.
Why do non-adherents think they are entitled to heaven?
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Neithan
Guest
Because it’s complex and not self-evident. Considering the limitations of time and ability, as well as competing motivations,* there were very few people who could possibly attempt such a calculation before the post-industrial society, and even now relatively few who are both able and willing to try.
*Even the “most probably true” proposition is not necessarily the most appealing option to most people. If others are possibly true, there are motives and biases that will lead people to believe them.
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Freddy
Guest
Can you explain how one can reject something in which one doesn’t believe? You can certainly reject any evidence proferred but that’s something completely different.FiveLinden:
Rejection is an act of the will.
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FiveLinden
Guest
Yes but angels and Adam and Eve, in your belief, did have perfect knowledge that God existed. How come you don’t call their rejection the ‘ultimate rejection’ and instead say it is us atheists who deserve that recognition? That was my question.
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openmind77
Guest
A very good Muslim friend of mine told me the same thing! Good luck to both of you!
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Neithan
Guest
Haha 
According to your friend’s holy book:
According to your friend’s holy book:
Now, where does that leave you?
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openmind77
Guest
Haha
According to your friend’s holy book:
Good of you to believe in Allah! I am sure you will be rewarded as that book says.
As for me, I am not too worried. This belief in eternal hell or eternal heaven after this current life, will be discarded after the Christ returns and corrects a lot of such misunderstandings. If you are really interested in knowing what to expect in the afterlife, here is a good source: http://heaven-hell-back.com/
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Neithan
Guest
Thank you! Allah is Arabic for God and used by Arab Christians.
Why is that a good source?
JohnStrachan
New member
It’s the same God. The god of Jews, Christians and Muslims is the same God.
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openmind77
Guest
That is a good source for my beliefs, if you are interested in them. On the other hand, if you think you are going to eternal heaven after death to rub shoulders with all the saints and angels, good luck to you. But I personal doubt it, I believe that most people need to spend many, many lifetimes on Earth struggling and suffering, before they are afforded that privilege.
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openmind77
Guest
That may be true. But I was merely trying to point out that many people say that theirs is the ‘One true faith’openmind77:
It’s the same God. The god of Jews, Christians and Muslims is the same God.
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Dan_Defender
Guest
It is always the argument of the atheist to go off-topic. Angels are not human, and yes, some used their free will once and rejected God. That doesn’t have to do with us. When I say ultimate rejection i am talking about humanity not angels. What Adam and Eve did was believe the lie that they could be ‘like God’ in a way atheists do the same by choosing themselves over God.
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Freddy
Guest
I think there’s some problem with the status of Jesus.openmind77:
It’s the same God. The god of Jews, Christians and Muslims is the same God.
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Dan_Defender
Guest
People reject concepts/ideas all the time. Like terrorism or Sharia law. In the afterlife, you think you can tell God ‘oh I didn’t reject you I simply didn’t believe in you’? well good luck with that defense.
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Freddy
Guest
Terrorism exists. Sharia law exist. I don’t agree with either so I can reject both. In the Lord of The Rings, in Ithilien, a fiefdom of Gondor, releasing a prisoner forfeits your own life. That law doesn’t exist. I don’t believe Gondor exists. It would be nonsensical to say ‘I reject the Gondor Law regarding prisoners!’Freddy:
People reject concepts/ideas all the time. Like terrorism or Sharia law. In the afterlife, you think you can tell God ‘oh I didn’t reject you I simply didn’t believe in you’? well good luck with that defense.
Does that make it clearer?
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Dan_Defender
Guest
It makes clear that you put God and a fairy tale on the same level. That is your choice. But it’s not going to help you in the afterlife that is my only point.
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Abrosz
Guest
Also the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot, and the claims of the paranormal. All that, and with good reason. There is no evidence for any of them.
And HOW would you know that? Did you have a “peek” into the afterlife, or did God personally enlighten you? Gotta love the assured “knowledge” about the “afterlife”.
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Freddy
Guest
Then you have misinterpreted my meaning. The Lord Of The Rings is just a story. People (well most people) aren’t going to dedicate their lives to praising Gandalf (religious metaphors notwithstanding). Whereas God is an important part of very many people’s lives. The most important part I could say.
So in that respect, people’s belief in God should be granted some respect. Not so much with a book about elves and orcs.
But saying that not believing in God won’t help me in the afterlife is just as meaningfull to me as saying that disrespect for Gandalf won’t help me in my struggle against the orcs.
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RuthAnne
Guest
I recently heard Bishop Barron say that even atheists of good will can make it to heaven.
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Freddy
Guest
Hopefully his views will have some influence…
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