Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[Bill_Pick]

The Bible actually has quite a bit to say about Mary, both explicitly in the New Testament and implicitly (prophetically) in the Old Testament. In the New Testament Mary is present at almost every major event in the life of Jesus:

His conception (Luke 1:2)
His development in the womb, including the fetal development of John the Baptist (Lk 1:43)
His birth (Lk 2:7)
Offering Him to God (Lk 2:22)
Early childhood (Lk 2:22-38)
His confirmation at 12 years old (Lk 2:49)
His start in public ministry and the first of his miracles, which she instigated. (Wedding at Cana Jn 2:3)
His death on Calvary (Jn 19:26)

 

[JonNC]

Here is the better explanation; the Catholic Mary is foreign to the Protestant.
Catholic Mary characteristics: - Immaculate conceived, perpetual virgin, worship by Catholic under the guise of veneration, which by Catholic definition is worship, Mother of God, co-mediatrix, dispenser of all graces, Queen of Heaven etc etc

Protestant Mary: earthly mother of Jesus, virgin until after the birth of Jesus, had other sons and daughter with husband Joseph, was sinful and in need of a Savior like the rest of us, was a chosen vessel of God to deliver the Savior via natural birth. Is no greater a saint than any other saint in God’s view.

From my Christian perspective, you have a Mary that is not spoken of in the bible in my personal opinion. Doesn’t mean we do not have respect for her, we just don’t elevate her to a status foreign to Scripture.

There seems a significant number of innacuracies here. From my nonCatholic perspective:

#Mary is the God-bearer, the Theotokos, the mother of God.
#There is no evidence that she had other children, and scant evidence that she didn’t. The centuries-long teaching is that she was ever-virgin, and I accept that.
#Luther said that the Blessed Virgin was the greatest gem in all Christendom, and I see no cause to dispute that. The fact that all believers are saints does not exclude the recognition that the actions of some saints are a wonderful example of the godly life to the rest of us. Mary’s humility, obedience, and loyalty to her son are, perhaps, the greatest example to Christians.
#I see no evidence that Catholic veneration, properly and piously done, is improper, idolatry, or a form of worship.

Jon

 

[AmericanJosiah]

There seems a significant number of innacuracies here. From my nonCatholic perspective:

#Mary is the God-bearer, the Theotokos, the mother of God.
#There is no evidence that she had other children, and scant evidence that she didn’t. The centuries-long teaching is that she was ever-virgin, and I accept that.
#Luther said that the Blessed Virgin was the greatest gem in all Christendom, and I see no cause to dispute that. The fact that all believers are saints does not exclude the recognition that the actions of some saints are a wonderful example of the godly life to the rest of us. Mary’s humility, obedience, and loyalty to her son are, perhaps, the greatest example to Christians.
#I see no evidence that Catholic veneration, properly and piously done, is improper, idolatry, or a form of worship.

Jon

Are you saying that you - a non Catholic - don’t hate Mary!!! I’m TRYING to find one non-Catholic who does.

I agree entirely with what you posted, with one very minor (and entirely non divisive) point. While I accept the Ever-Virginity of Mary as a valid pious opinion (and have NO issue whatsoever with you embracing it as true), I don’t accept it as dogma (and thus, I could not be Catholic). All this, of course, does not mean Mary had other children - the Bible is silent on that issue, either way. And so am I.

But I regard her as the Mother of all believers, I firmly celebrate Her as the Mother of God, I regard Her as Queen of Heaven and Chief among all the saints. I hold Her in high esteem, I revere and adore Her. I don’t even have a problem with saying we should worship her - as long as it is clear (as it is in The Catholic Church) that such doesn’t imply Her divinity but only a unique adoration or respect.

And yes, I’ve been told FAR too often for me to count, that I hate Mary. Or at least that I dislike her intensively and personally. And it’s usually around this time of the year.

.

 

[SANxJONERO]

Isn’t piper another name for the devil?

 

[JonNC]

=AmericanJosiah;6091443]Are you saying that you - a non Catholic - don’t hate Mary!!! I’m TRYING to find one non-Catholic who does.

I think the confusion is that there are some who dislike, indeed hate the Catholic Church, and therefore their view of Catholic marian dogma comes across as hate for the Blessed Virgin herself. I don’t think, in most cases, that is the intention.

I agree entirely with what you posted, with one very minor (and entirely non divisive) point. While I accept the Ever-Virginity of Mary as a valid pious opinion (and have NO issue whatsoever with you embracing it as true), I don’t accept it as dogma (and thus, I could not be Catholic). All this, of course, does not mean Mary had other children - the Bible is silent on that issue, either way. And so am I.

This is the division between Catholics and Lutherans -not the marian teachings, but the binding of the believer’s conscience to them.

But I regard her as the Mother of all believers, I firmly celebrate Her as the Mother of God, I regard Her as Queen of Heaven and Chief among all the saints. I hold Her in high esteem, I revere and adore Her. I don’t even have a problem with saying we should worship her - as long as it is clear (as it is in The Catholic Church) that such doesn’t imply Her divinity but only a unique adoration or respect.

Dulia, and yes, I completely agree with you.

And yes, I’ve been told FAR too often for me to count, that I hate Mary. Or at least that I dislike her intensively and personally. And it’s usually around this time of the year.

Clearly, you don’t.

Jon

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Actually, the ‘protestant’ Mary is unbiblical. And, for your information, she is spoken of in Scripture, or implied to be present, at least 12 times.

And why don’t you be honest about it? You don’t have respect for her. The Catholic and orthodox churches are the only ones that have continued the biblical tradition of honoring her when she spoke, in her Magnificat, “All generations shall call me blessed.”

Her status is neither foreign to Scripture nor to the Church. The protestant view of Mary is what is foreign.

And once again, and I will continue to bring this up, you cannot understand spiritual motherhood, or have an authentic understanding of marriage when your protestant churches not only promote but encourage the use of artificial contraception (birth control) and, in some cases, even abortion. THAT is what is so foreign to true Christianity. You cannot possibly fathom anything regarding Mary, her perpetual virginity, her immaculate conception, her chastity, particularly when your own churches are so sex-obsessed.

The difference between you and I is that I can prove my position from Scripture and you cannot. What is more honest, the person that makes someone they are not or the person that says what God has said about Mary?

All generations will consider Mary “happy”; yes she was quite happy and a bunch of other emotions I would imagine given the “hard to explain circumstance” with the culture of the time; yet she faithfully, along with Joseph, obeyed the Word of the Lord and protected and nurtured the infant Jesus and praise God for Mary and Joseph and all the saints of all the ages.

I just read your last paragraph and I see no Christian in it; do you? Are you a Catholic that left for a while and then returned “home”? I do not have Protestant church’s, just so you know-kind of a strange statement. I agree I cannot fully understand motherhood with or without Mary; I am a man.

Don’t know any Christian who promotes abortion, which is murder. Nothing wrong nor unbiblical about artificial contraception; but if you as a Catholic take it as sin, then I respect that and will not judge you because your conscience tells you it is a sin. Likewise, don’t judge the others who believe in their conscience it is okay. God is the one who knows the intent of the heart and Christian freedom allows for family planning, but the method chosen may be a sin for ones conscience and not the other. Paul spoke about this in a book called the Bible. Your last sentance, yep; i have already stated that.

 

[courtiswa]

I no reason to dislike Mary. Granted I do not do all the ritual that Catholics do.

My respect for Mary remains the same without any ritual.

 

[peary1]

The difference between you and I is that I can prove my position from Scripture and you cannot. What is more honest, the person that makes someone they are not or the person that says what God has said about Mary?

All generations will consider Mary “happy”; yes she was quite happy and a bunch of other emotions I would imagine given the “hard to explain circumstance” and the culture of the time; yet she faithfully, along with Joseph, obeyed the Word of the Lord and protected and nurtured the infant Jesus and praise god for Mary and Joseph and all the saints of all the ages.

No, you lack the basic theological understanding that has been a gift to the Church since its inception. You can prove whatever you want from Scripture. But please remember that you cannot interpret Scripture without the Church, and you cannot understand the Church by divorcing it from Her own Scriptures. Yet, this is what you have done, and, in such arrogance, you’ve cut yourself off from sources which otherwise would enlighten you.

To me, you are not being honest with yourself because your understanding is incomplete. I am not responsible for that because that is your decision to be so. To continue to discuss this with you is not productive.It certainly isn’t enlightening to you, and it just aggravates me.

Everything the Church has stated about Mary (who, by the way, is Mother of the Church because the Church is the Body of Christ), is reflective of what analogies are found in Her (the Church’s) Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments.

You do yourself a great disservice by cutting yourself off from a proper understanding of the woman who is at the very center of salvation history and who, through her humility, brought forth Christ as our salvation.

Good luck.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Then why involve yourself in any charitable work when you don’t know those you are attempting to be charitable to? After all, how can you love someone you don’t know? Or are you one of those who just throws money into the collection plate and your involvement stops there? How convenient.

Why are you so “sour”? Secondly, what in the world are you talking about? Charitable work, was this something that has been spoken about? Perhaps you have me confused with someone else; i don’t know.

But I pray God pours out the blessing of happiness to you; especially at this time where we all agree that Jesus is our focus and the best Gift anyone who knows Him will ever receive.

 

[Bill_Pick]

On some things I am very hyper-sensitive. I can get really sensitive if I think I am getting personally attacked.

But I didn’t think anything was personal here.

I guess it is the classical musicians temperament in me.

And maybe I am odd, but religious differences for the most part don’t yank my chain. If you want to pray to Mary and all the saints for me, go ahead and have at it. Just don’t expect me to.

do you have his name right or wrong it was nottosmart,but he change it

 

[Timothy_Piper]

There seems a significant number of innacuracies here. From my nonCatholic perspective:

#Mary is the God-bearer, the Theotokos, the mother of God.
#There is no evidence that she had other children, and scant evidence that she didn’t. The centuries-long teaching is that she was ever-virgin, and I accept that.
#Luther said that the Blessed Virgin was the greatest gem in all Christendom, and I see no cause to dispute that. The fact that all believers are saints does not exclude the recognition that the actions of some saints are a wonderful example of the godly life to the rest of us. Mary’s humility, obedience, and loyalty to her son are, perhaps, the greatest example to Christians.
#I see no evidence that Catholic veneration, properly and piously done, is improper, idolatry, or a form of worship.

Jon

1. Mary is Jesus bearer in His humanity-incarnate. He was always god before Mary was even thought of by her parents. Huge difference.
2. No evidence she had other children; that’s a crock to anyone who knows Scripture at all.
3. They define it as worship in their catechism and their own definition as I have already shown.

What you say is no surprise for many reasons, but since you admitted you do not believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God on a previous post, then anything can and probably does go for you, since you make your own standard, then pick and chose which of Gods standard are for you. Choosing what you want to believe or not concerning what God has said and done according to His word. If God said their was a worldwide flood and only 8 people survived and you decide you think that is a myth; then what are you saying about the character of God? If this part is mythical and that part is; then how do you distinguish which is okay?

You had mentioned that God sees the heart and you are counting on it; you are only deceiving yourself if you believe you are Christian and at the same time do not believe what God has written, but as you said you are counting on him seeing the heart. I am not your judge, but when it comes to discerning if one is truly Christian or not; it starts with the view of His Word.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Isn’t piper another name for the devil?

I don’t know the origin of the name Piper, but I do know the comment was not from a Christian. PS Thank you for the blessing and I pray He will return the blessing.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

No, you lack the basic theological understanding that has been a gift to the Church since its inception. You can prove whatever you want from Scripture. But please remember that you cannot interpret Scripture without the Church, and you cannot understand the Church by divorcing it from Her own Scriptures. Yet, this is what you have done, and, in such arrogance, you’ve cut yourself off from sources which otherwise would enlighten you.

To me, you are not being honest with yourself because your understanding is incomplete. I am not responsible for that because that is your decision to be so. To continue to discuss this with you is not productive.It certainly isn’t enlightening to you, and it just aggravates me.

Everything the Church has stated about Mary (who, by the way, is Mother of the Church because the Church is the Body of Christ), is reflective of what analogies are found in Her (the Church’s) Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments.

You do yourself a great disservice by cutting yourself off from a proper understanding of the woman who is at the very center of salvation history and who, through her humility, brought forth Christ as our salvation.

Good luck.

How did you deal with your sin issue before God? Are you a Catholic who left a while, then returned home?

Scripture says the Holy Spirit is the interpreter of Scripture, not men. Thought that may have escaped your notice somehow.

 

[izoid]

1. Mary is Jesus bearer in His humanity-incarnate. He was always god before Mary was even thought of by her parents. Huge difference.
2. No evidence she had other children; that’s a crock to anyone who knows Scripture at all.
3. They define it as worship in their catechism and their own definition as I have already shown.

What you say is no surprise for many reasons, but since you admitted you do not believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God on a previous post, then anything can and probably does go for you, since you make your own standard, then pick and chose which of Gods standard are for you. Choosing what you want to believe or not concerning what God has said and done according to His word. If God said their was a worldwide flood and only 8 people survived and you decide you think that is a myth; then what are you saying about the character of God? If this part is mythical and that part is; then how do you distinguish which is okay?

You had mentioned that God sees the heart and you are counting on it; you are only deceiving yourself if you believe you are Christian and at the same time do not believe what God has written, but as you said you are counting on him seeing the heart. I am not your judge, but when it comes to discerning if one is truly Christian or not; it starts with the view of His Word.

You see, your arrogance and superior attitude is quite clear here. Not only do you disagree with Catholics but you disagree with protestants also. It is now quite clear, by your own words and attitude, that you are a very extreme fundamentalist that feels their view is the only one and that anyone who disagrees is going to hell. I for one find it quite offensive and belligerent. You have clearly closed your heart to anything that may be from God. I wish you well and I ill pray that God softens your hard heartedness.

 

[JonNC]

=Timothy Piper;6091799]1) Mary is Jesus bearer in His humanity-incarnate. He was always god before Mary was even thought of by her parents. Huge difference.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. At His conception, Jesus was God. Mary is, therefore, the God-bearer. She gave birth to Jesus, fully God, and fully man.

1. No evidence she had other children; that’s a crock to anyone who knows Scripture at all.

Thanks for the charitable response. That you believe she had other children is fine by me. I see no evidence that she, Mary, gave birth to other children.

1. They define it as worship in their catechism and their own definition as I have already shown.

Your contemporary understanding of the term “worship”. They hold a more historic view of the term, using dulia, and latria.

What you say is no surprise for many reasons, but since you admitted you do not believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God on a previous post, then anything can and probably does go for you, since you make your own standard, then pick and chose which of Gods standard are for you. Choosing what you want to believe or not concerning what God has said and done according to His word. If God said their was a worldwide flood and only 8 people survived and you decide you think that is a myth; then what are you saying about the character of God? If this part is mythical and that part is; then how do you distinguish which is okay?

You had mentioned that God sees the heart and you are counting on it; you are only deceiving yourself if you believe you are Christian and at the same time do not believe what God has written, but as you said you are counting on him seeing the heart. I am not your judge, but when it comes to discerning if one is truly Christian or not; it starts with the view of His Word.

Huh? Where did I say these things?
Jon

 

[Timothy_Piper]

You see, your arrogance and superior attitude is quite clear here. Not only do you disagree with Catholics but you disagree with protestants also. It is now quite clear, by your own words and attitude, that you are ***a very extreme fundamentalist that feels their view is the only one and that anyone who disagrees is going to hell. *** I for one find it quite offensive and belligerent. You have clearly closed your heart to anything that may be from God. I wish you well and I ill pray that God softens your hard heartedness.

Do not confuse pride or arrogance with a love and reverence for the Word of God, which is commanded to be rightly divided. Those who take that command lightly will be chastened by the Lord if they are a Christian.

It is you who judges me as you can see above. You name call and slander without reason; which is a fundamental non-Christian attitude. Even if someone were to give you reason, what did the Lord say?

I will call a spade a spade out of love for one’s soul. So if someone believes they can pick and chose what to believe about what God said is true in his Word, then call themselves a Christian, then what love is there to say “hey no worries God won’t take offense”…NO. Being self deceived needs to be brought to light and this is what Scripture teaches. You do know the folks on the broad road in Matthew 7 are religious people that claim to know the Christian God, not atheists or that sort. Since most religious people are on that broad road according to Scripture, then there are many deceived people out there, whether self-deceived or otherwise; doesn’t matter the reason the key is to point to the cross where one will find the correct path that does lead to Heaven.

God bless you and we can be thankful for the Lord being so personal that He became flesh, suffered in all ways we do and more, was separated from the Father for our sake; so that whosoever believes on the Name of Jesus will have eternal life…praise God and thanks be to God.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I don’t know anyone who dislikes Mary, I think that in discussions about Mary between Catholics and Protestants, We protestants resist her elevation into more that the Bible calls for. Did Jesus love his mother, no doubt He did. However lets not forget that He knows each of us as intimately as He knows her. It was He that created her not the other way around. Does her redeemer that bore the cross for her sins owe her a debt for changing his soiled diapers?. Jesus was asked how to pray by the disciples and He taught them to pray directly to God. If the God of the universe wanted us to pray to anyone else, why didn’t He say so?

 

[Justy90]

.

Let me see if I understand the Catholic perspective…

If we don’t participate in the Eucharist every week, we have a great dislike for Mary, personally. Now, what does that say about the majority of Catholics - who CERTAINLY don’t participate the the Eucharist every week.

If we don’t pray TO Mary, we have a great dislike for Her, personally. Thus, if a Catholic does not pray to President Obama, they hate him?



.

It’s all a game of circular reasoning. The whole thing is about exclusivity. If you don’t believe or do what mother church says to, you are out. Period. That means that they make wild assertions like hating Mary if we don’t adhere to all the dogmas and Catholic doctrine concerning Mary. They also say that we don’t believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucahrist because we don’t believe that validity is exclusively held in Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

 

[SANxJONERO]

I don’t know the origin of the name Piper, but I do know the comment was not from a Christian. PS Thank you for the blessing and I pray He will return the blessing.

The question came from me, a Catholic & therefore Christian. It’s just when I saw your name & how you bash on the true church of God’s beliefs, it reminded me of how I believe someone said piper is a name for the devil. Now you can see why I asked, but I’m sure it could mean other things also. PS That wasn’t a blessing, but I pray we shall all be blessed to come together as Catholics 1 day & I thank you if you pray for Jesus to bless me.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Huh? Where did I say these things?
Jon

Hi Jon,

I said you said something about picking and choosing concerning the word of God on the previous post and I mistakened you for another poster and **I apologize to you for my error. ** It was great concern to me when someone decides to pick and choose about the Word of God, then claim God reads hearts, then claim to be a Christian…that would be a very self deceived person. I wanted to apologize directly to you before I post the apology on the thread, which I will copy and paste this.

God bless and Merry Christmas.