Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

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Originally Posted by veritas4Christ
Rev, you missing the point. It’s your mind that is the problem.
My reference to 1 Corinthians 7:36-38 was to show you that celibate relationships, ie where both the man and woman have decided to remain virgins, within the early Christian community were accepted - despite the fact that your mind cannot grasp this. Now, let’s take this one step further - possibly celibate marriages were practised based on the example of Mary and Joseph.
Surely I am missunderstanding you! If you are claiming that these verses can be used to argue that people can or should remain celabit in marriage, then this is the worse abuse of a pasage of scripture that I have ever seen. Paul is very clearly stating that it is better in his view to remain single if you want to exersise singular devotion to God because if you are married you then have responsabilities to your spouce that will consme your time and attention. Read the entire context Start at the begining of the chapter where he clearly begins talking about the topic because he starts by saying"Now for the matters you wrote about…he very quickly contradicts the conclusion you reach. Even if it was ok to wrench a scripture out of its context to support a doctrin(it is not) the verses you refrence can in no way be interpreted to mean what you say. Someone please tell me is the RCC using this scripture to support some doctrin of cellibate marrige? Or is this just one persons interpritation?
You have just given us an example of the flaw in protestant thinking. You have read far too much into what I have said. You have assumed that your interpretation is superior to mine. You are using your own life experience as the guide to interpreting Scripture. And it is YOU who has taken the quote out of it’s context. Quite simply, you, being a perpetually protesting and reforming yourself adherent, cannot do this. I’ll just start a new Church. 🤷

Celibacy is held in high regard by St. Paul and the Church. It is you who does not want to see this in this verse. ALL I have said that in this verse St. Paul was addressing those couples, who were betrothed AND who had made a vow of celibacy. This verse is within the context of the the whole. You seem to be implying then that really (in your mind) St. Paul was telling those who had made a vow of celibacy, and both able to and willing to keep it, to not do so and they HAD to engage in sexual intercourse in marriage.

Holding celibacy is high regard does NOT thereby hold marriage in low regard, in a secondary status. It is you who does, not Scripture. Scripture is simply including it in reference to the comparative abilities of the celibate/non-celibate to focus on the Lord.

Of course, I was also discussing this in the context of the relationship of Mary and Joseph, her perpetual virginity, and suggested that these couples were basing their lifestyle on Mary and Joseph. Which was in context, and your reply was not.
 
Is there documentation that Paul wrote Hebrews? BTW, my guess is that he did, but that’s only my opinion.
Heb 13:24 Salute all your prelates and all the saints. The brethren from Italy salute you.
 
I apologize, but it appears you have misinterpreted my question. Which interpretation should one believe when there are so many different interpretations all claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit? That is not saying your wrong, or right. I am just asking how one discerns the true interpretation?

I wasn’t seeking your apology but thank you for clearing that up.​

I was showing Izoid that her/his comments were incorrect.
 
Much of what is believed by concervative non-catholic Christians and catholics are the same: Trinity, virgin birth, Heaven, hell, crucifixion, resurrection, sin, original sin, etc. The big divide comes with you telling us your church is the correct church. Pleas show us the Bible verses that tells us a person won’t be let into Heaven if they don’t accept the CC and the one and only church founded by God?
I will amen that Dokimas.
 
Why are you making things up? The bolded part of YOUR post says no such thing. I told you that the Catholic Church does not teach what you claimed it id. Go back and read it again.

You are beginning to really remind me of a guy that used to be here, 2ndAdam. He often used the same tactics when he couldn’t answer the question. Twist and deceive. 🤷
Dokimas you are one of the boldest Christians to come forth on this besides 2nd Adam and they did away with him because he spoke the truth. Izoid has me on ignore which is a blessing, but he is one argumentive person.
 
I often fail; nothing new to me. Please help me. Please remind me what question I’ve been asked and not responded to.
Actually, it’s Sunday and I’m not into playing a theology game where you avoid the question to seemingly antagonize for the sake of antagonizing. It’s been repeated numerous times and apparently you are not interested in explaining how one discerns which of the multiple private interpretations is the correct one.
 
Actually, it’s Sunday and I’m not into playing a theology game where you avoid the question to seemingly antagonize for the sake of antagonizing. It’s been repeated numerous times and apparently you are not interested in explaining how one discerns which of the multiple private interpretations is the correct one.

Oh, that question. I am not responsible for anyone’s beliefs (unless I lead someone astray). I am responsible for studying for myself. In short, I don’t choose between private interpretations, whether of the church I go to or the CC. I listen, read, study and choose for myself what I thing God is speaking from His word. I shelve anything that seems to contradict what I read or that I have no real understanding from studying.​

I confused. You go from speaking nice to speaking with a condescending tone. Do you think your comments are above being antagonistic? Isn’t the nature of differing opinions a bit antagonistic? To the best of my understanding of my own heart, I only communicate what I believe to be true, sometimes by trying others to see they are not consistant, sometimes sarcastically (I’m all too human and not devine) and other times quite straight forward using the Bible to make my point.
 

Oh, that question. I am not responsible for anyone’s beliefs (unless I lead someone astray). I am responsible for studying for myself. In short, I don’t choose between private interpretations, whether of the church I go to or the CC. I listen, read, study and choose for myself what I thing God is speaking from His word. I shelve anything that seems to contradict what I read or that I have no real understanding from studying.​

I confused. You go from speaking nice to speaking with a condescending tone. Do you think your comments are above being antagonistic? Isn’t the nature of differing opinions a bit antagonistic? To the best of my understanding of my own heart, I only communicate what I believe to be true, sometimes by trying others to see they are not consistant, sometimes sarcastically (I’m all too human and not devine) and other times quite straight forward using the Bible to make my point.
Please quote the scriptures telling us to interpret scriptures for ourselves. That’s what you articulated that you are doing with scriptures.

I try to stay on an even course on these forums, but it’s not easy, especially when those in discussions avoid questions or points raised. It’s easy to see who’s doing that over the last few pages. It’s more of a, "let’s see what I can say against Catholicism to raise danders and get ‘attaboys’ from those here to do the same.

Like I said, it’s Sunday and there are better ways to spend a Sunday than to be a part of those wishing to divide the body of Christ as far as they can for the purposes I described above.
 
Please quote the scriptures telling us to interpret scriptures for ourselves. That’s what you articulated that you are doing with scriptures.

I try to stay on an even course on these forums, but it’s not easy, especially when those in discussions avoid questions or points raised. It’s easy to see who’s doing that over the last few pages. It’s more of a, "let’s see what I can say against Catholicism to raise danders and get ‘attaboys’ from those here to do the same.

Like I said, it’s Sunday and there are better ways to spend a Sunday than to be a part of those wishing to divide the body of Christ as far as they can for the purposes I described above.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

1 John 2:
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.​

I am responsible for me. I will have no one to blame except me. If I’m correct, I have only the Holy Spirit to thank for the things I’ve understood correctly and applied to my life.​

BTW, join the crowd with those of us who have made point or asked question that have not been answered.
 
Much of what is believed by concervative non-catholic Christians and catholics are the same: Trinity, virgin birth, Heaven, hell, crucifixion, resurrection, sin, original sin, etc. The big divide comes with you telling us your church is the correct church. Pleas show us the Bible verses that tells us a person won’t be let into Heaven if they don’t accept the CC and the one and only church founded by God?
I was showing Izoid that her/his comments were incorrect.
My comments were not incorrect at all. You have ignored them and failed to provide the basis for your claims. You know the Catholic Church does not teach what you have accused it of teaching (bolded text above). Are you going to answer this or should we all assume your intentions were to mislead? I would like to know where you got this idea, especially since you have already been told it is a false assumption on your part.
 

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

1 John 2:
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.​

I am responsible for me. I will have no one to blame except me. If I’m correct, I have only the Holy Spirit to thank for the things I’ve understood correctly and applied to my life.​

BTW, join the crowd with those of us who have made point or asked question that have not been answered.
It is very sad that you feel this way. Do you really believe God would leave it to chance on whether you understand His word or not? How do you honestly reconcile that there are so many interpretations of a given verse and all of these are from men and women claiming to be Spirit lead? Do you believe God would want His truth to be known?
 

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

1 John 2:
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.​

I am responsible for me. I will have no one to blame except me. If I’m correct, I have only the Holy Spirit to thank for the things I’ve understood correctly and applied to my life.​

BTW, join the crowd with those of us who have made point or asked question that have not been answered.
Thank you for the verses Doki and God Bless
 
My comments were not incorrect at all. You have ignored them and failed to provide the basis for your claims. You know the Catholic Church does not teach what you have accused it of teaching (bolded text above). Are you going to answer this or should we all assume your intentions were to mislead? I would like to know where you got this idea, especially since you have already been told it is a false assumption on your part.
I believe ProdicalSon and I have cleared it up. End of story.
 
I believe ProdicalSon and I have cleared it up. End of story.
You think you can throw a jab at someone and then say, “all done”? You can’t just put out a false statement and say “end of story”. You are accountable for YOUR words. Do you stand by your comment or do you recant it?
 
The truth still remains unchanged.

I know you don’t agree with me, but it is most likely due to a lack of confidence in God in the reading and understanding of the Word of God. My confidence does not come from myself; I have no confidence in myself, but I have full confidence in Christ and His promises, one of which is the Holt Spirit revealing the truth of His Word to each individual.
You do not understand. You have to be taught the correct Scripture interpretation by someone who already knows the correct Scripture interpretation! You must be taught the correct interpretation of Scripture by someone who can trace these correct interpretations back to Christ Himself or else you will make errors in your interpretation. You cannot be grounded in the truth unless you first learn the truth from people who learned it from other persons who know the truth and who also taught it to them 2 Timothy 2:2. This rich deposit of faith of Scripture interpretation in the Catholic Church goes back through the years all the way to the Apostles and Jesus. This is why Peter states:

2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

You are untaught (you are either self-taught or else taught by other self-taught people) and therefore you are **unstable **(not grounded in the truth) because you were not taught the correct Scripture interpretation by the Catholic Church and you did you learn the correct Scripture interpretation from the Catholic Church who alone has the authority of God to interpret her own book’s words.

1 Timothy 3:15
I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
**
The Catholic Church is the pillar (support) and ground (foundation of the truth), not Scripture.**
It is the Catholic Church that correctly interprets Scripture and she is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Unless you learn the correct interpretation of the Scriptures from someone who learned the correct interpretation from the Catholic Church, you will not learn the correct interpretation and if you do not learn the correct interpretation from the Magisterium (successors of the Apostles), then you will end up twisting the Scriptures to mean something that they do not.
**
The Bible belongs to the Catholic Church. It is her book.** The Bible was compiled in order to help to teach the Catholic Faith to its members. She alone has the authority to interpret her own Scriptures. Any interpretation of Scripture that does not agree with Catholic teaching is in error. All Scripture, when properly interpreted, confirms the Catholic Church’s teachings. It is naive and absurd to believe that a person can pick up the Catholic Church’s book and then proceed to correct her in her teachings concerning her own book.
Again, you are imposing a position or title, whatever you consider it, onto Scripture. One needs only do a simple Word search in Scripture to debunk the notion that a priest is a Bishop or Elder according to the Word of God. Without the Holy Spirit of Truth, then no one will not be able to understand and things like I said above about the priest not being an Bishop nor overseer, seems foolish, just as other things I have said are foolishness to many.
"Bishop, Priest, and Deacon

The sacrament of holy orders is conferred in three ranks of clergy: bishops, priests, and deacons.

Bishops (episcopoi) have the care of multiple congregations and appoint, ordain, and discipline priests and deacons. They sometimes appear to be called “evangelists” in the New Testament. Examples of first-century bishops include Timothy and Titus (1 Tim. 5:19–22; 2 Tim. 4:5; Titus 1:5).

Priests (presbuteroi) are also known as “presbyters” or “elders.” In fact, the English term “priest” is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros. They have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments in a given congregation (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15).

Deacons (diakonoi) are the assistants of the bishops and are responsible for teaching and administering certain Church tasks, such as the distribution of food (Acts 6:1–6)."
More at: catholic.com/library/Bishop_Priest_and_Deacon.asp

The foolishness of men includes their thinking that it is possible for every person to read the Scriptures for themselves and then automatically accurately interpret them. It is foolishness to believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding every person in Scripture interpretation. Personal interpretation of Scripture leads to contradicting doctrines and this is why there are now thousands of Protestant churches. However, the Holy Spirit does not teach contradicting doctrines so He is definitely not guiding these individuals.

One Protestant personally believes that Baptism washes away sins. Another Protestant personally does not believe that Baptism washes away sins, yet both Protestants claim that the Holy Spirit has personally guided them to truth.

The Holy Spirit does not teach conflicting doctrines.

Scripture Alone causes Chaos!
 
It’s funny you talk like this now, saying the Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts and opens our eyes… But when the Catholic Church says these things about Mary --well, everyone laughs in her face… They say -oh no,no,no… Thats not in the bible.
there is a difference betwene having your eyes open and seeing things that arent even there. If you say the Holy Spirit lead you to give food to the hungry, I say great! if He tells you that You should pray for the sick, I say go for it! But when you say He is telling you to worship Mary in addition to God… Then I say its time to question what spirit you hearing from.
 
It is very sad that you feel this way. Do you really believe God would leave it to chance on whether you understand His word or not? How do you honestly reconcile that there are so many interpretations of a given verse and all of these are from men and women claiming to be Spirit lead? Do you believe God would want His truth to be known?
I have already said I don’t try to reconcil any interpretations. It’s not my job. I also don’t think I leave it to chance. I believe the Holy Spirit inspired the Bible and if He’s in me, He can guide me to understandings. I also know I won’t know perfectly until Heaven.
 
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