Why do people leave the Catholic Church?

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I agree that “Church” references in the NT is largely interpolation by the later church, but I don’t agree that Paul was the first “pope”. There are several references in the ECF that Linus was the first bishop of Rome, almost none that Peter was. Actually there is evidence that Peter was bishop of Antioch. Interesting of course is the fact that Paul in righting to the Romans, makes no mention in his salutation to Peter, and Paul is quite careful to address all the important personages. He would of course probably not written at all to the Romans had Paul been there as Bishop, since it would have been clear overstepping. As far as I know, Paul was bishop nowhere in the entire Roman Empire.
I didn’t mean on a formal manner. But because Paul was the one to start Christianity, I consider him the first Pope. Of course, I know that even the word is of a late invention. Even the first Bishop in Antioch he was not properly called, although Antioch was his headquarters until he was arrested and taken to Rome where he died.

Ben: 🙂
 
Thanks for that answer.

Would you mind revealing the point in your spiritual development that you came to the view that you could never hold tradition as more important than Scripture and perhaps briefly detail the influences that led you to it?

Inquiringly,
Mick
👍
Hello SST,
I was a practicing Catholic who had recently been baptised in the Holy Spirit who was struggling with a besetting sin. I had a hunger and thirst for the things of God and began reading the bible fevorishly and all things concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I found in the bible things contrary to what are/were Catholic teachings (indulgences, graven images, celibate priesthood etc)
I also found the best and most comprehensive teaching on the Holy Spirit to be NonCatholic sources. These influences led me out of the Catholic Church.
 
Hello SST,
I was a practicing Catholic who had recently been baptised in the Holy Spirit who was struggling with a besetting sin. I had a hunger and thirst for the things of God and began reading the bible fevorishly and all things concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I found in the bible things contrary to what are/were Catholic teachings (indulgences, graven images, celibate priesthood etc)
I also found the best and most comprehensive teaching on the Holy Spirit to be NonCatholic sources. These influences led me out of the Catholic Church.
very interesting to me because reading St Paul he talks about being celibato to serve the Lord better. i see in Rev. that God chose men that have never being with women to be with Him wherever He is. i also read Jesus saying would be good if man stay celibato like Him but that not everyone could. unless you dont believe that Jesus was celibato.

do you not see these things there? if you missed those things you probably missed the others too.

the problem is that you put yourself above the Church and decided because you dont agree with some of the Church’s teaching you decide to go and find someplace else that agree with you.

what is obedience? is it all about what i can agree with? or is it that i submit myself to what i dont understand but trust that the Church according to Christ she is led into all Truth?

the Church cannot teach error. she cannot one teach one Truth here and an error there, one Truth here and one error there. it cannot work like that. hope you can see where i am going.

**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **
 
Hello SST,
I was a practicing Catholic who had recently been baptised in the Holy Spirit who was struggling with a besetting sin. I had a hunger and thirst for the things of God and began reading the bible fevorishly and all things concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I found in the bible things contrary to what are/were Catholic teachings (indulgences, graven images, celibate priesthood etc)
I also found the best and most comprehensive teaching on the Holy Spirit to be NonCatholic sources. These influences led me out of the Catholic Church.
What does the Catholic Church teach about graven images that is contrary to scripture?
 
very interesting to me because reading St Paul he talks about being celibato to serve the Lord better. i see in Rev. that God chose men that have never being with women to be with Him wherever He is. i also read Jesus saying would be good if man stay celibato like Him but that not everyone could. unless you dont believe that Jesus was celibato.

do you not see these things there? if you missed those things you probably missed the others too.

**WS what I have found out is Moses was married with children, the OT priests for the vast majority were married with children. Peter was married with children many of the other apostles were married. **

the problem is that you put yourself above the Church and decided because you dont agree with some of the Church’s teaching you decide to go and find someplace else that agree with you.

The Catholic Church is flat out wrong on a number of issues.I was led out of the RCC by the word of God and by His Spirit. If you have issue with that take it up with God.

what is obedience? is it all about what i can agree with? or is it that i submit myself to what i dont understand but trust that the Church according to Christ she is led into all Truth?

What is it you submit in obedience to? The word of God or the traditions of men?

the Church cannot teach error. she cannot one teach one Truth here and an error there, one Truth here and one error there. it cannot work like that. hope you can see where i am going.

The RCC has and does teach error.

**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **
 
**What **does the Catholic Church teach about graven images that is contrary to scripture?
When I walk into a Catholic Church I see graven images, I see kneelers before these images an candles to be lit.
 
When I walk into a Catholic Church I see graven images, I see kneelers before these images an candles to be lit.
I see sin everywhere. Does that mean I should sin too?

You know, you either lack mental capacity to understand what is being said here, or you are intellectually dishonest.

In which case why are you hanging in here. Trying to find someone to justify your decision? Or perhaps mislead people, deceive even the elect if that were possible.

You see contradictions where there are none. You think you follow Jesus, but you are not willing to accept his church?
 
I see sin everywhere. Does that mean I should sin too?

You know, you either lack mental capacity to understand what is being said here, or you are intellectually dishonest.

In which case why are you hanging in here. Trying to find someone to justify your decision? Or perhaps mislead people, deceive even the elect if that were possible.

You see contradictions where there are none. You think you follow Jesus, but you are not willing to accept his church?
I understand what is being said, I dont believe your definition of church —it is bogus.
I also have a revealatio of Gods holiness which demands no other Gods before Him.
I see the RCC as a church of compromise. God is not a God of compromise.
 
When I walk into a Catholic Church I see graven images, I see kneelers before these images an candles to be lit.
So, your assertion is that the Cathiolic Church teaches that we are to worship statues? Is that it?

What did the people of Isreal do in the presence of the Ark - which had 2 gold graven images on top of it (which God commanded)? They prostrated themselves because it was a representation of God. Because the word of God (the tablets) were held within it. Did they worship the Ark? Absolutely not.

Statues inside a Catholic Church are reminders of those whom we love. Statues and paintings are worship aids that remind us of those who went before us. The same as if you looked at a picture of your daughter lovingly. You don’t love the photo - you love your daughter.

You left the Church because you never understood - NOT because the Church taught things that were biblically unsound.

I understand what is being said, I dont believe your definition of church —it is bogus.
I also have a revealatio of Gods holiness which demands no other Gods before Him.
I see the RCC as a church of compromise. God is not a God of compromise.
What is your definition of God’s ONE Church?
What makes the Catholic Church a Church of compromise?
What makes it bogus?
 
SP got a question for you if you don’t mind. Now you say that ALMOST none that Peter was the first Pope. Now okay, then why did Jesus change Peter’s name, and why did Jesus give Peter the keys to the kingdom, and why did Jesus say Peter was the leader of the Flock. What did all of that scripture mean. Thanks SP.
We will but get into another discussion of what Jesus intended I’m afraid. I think it clear that Jesus told Peter to lead the movement and be in charge so to speak of the other apostles. I cannot presume the mind of Christ as to why he changed Peters name, other than he felt he could count on Peter in the end to continue preaching in the manner that Jesus had. I don’t know that Jesus called Peter the “leader of the flock” as you say.
 
You need to read this forum’s rules. You probably made a wrong turn at the protestant reformation and thought you were headed to sunday school instead of mass but you are free to post your opinions to an extint, that extint is violated when the opinion does nothing but attack catholisim. Your post is a blatant violation of forum rules. I am not reporting it or turning you in to the teacher as you are new here and we try to act with some charity , however, when it is clear a poster comes here not to find out answers about our faith and teachings but simply to attack catholism or convert they are not welcomed and are banned.

Please read the forum rules, we expect you to act like a guest, I assume you would not go to someones home and start insulting them?
Perhaps you can explain why some Catholics here make the same claim about all non-Catholics. Does this not violate charity rules as well? To suggest that all Protestants are by definition heretics seems pretty strong and quite uncharitable, but it is said here every day. Do the rules only apply one way? I
 
I didn’t mean on a formal manner. But because Paul was the one to start Christianity, I consider him the first Pope. Of course, I know that even the word is of a late invention. Even the first Bishop in Antioch he was not properly called, although Antioch was his headquarters until he was arrested and taken to Rome where he died.

Ben: 🙂
I see what you mean, Thank you for explaining further. There are many who would agree with you. I agree that the terms used were added later, and were not necessarily the one’s in use at the time. Homosexuality is an example of this, a word never used until around the 18th century.
 
very interesting to me because reading St Paul he talks about being celibato to serve the Lord better. i see in Rev. that God chose men that have never being with women to be with Him wherever He is. i also read Jesus saying would be good if man stay celibato like Him but that not everyone could. unless you dont believe that Jesus was celibato.

do you not see these things there? if you missed those things you probably missed the others too.

the problem is that you put yourself above the Church and decided because you dont agree with some of the Church’s teaching you decide to go and find someplace else that agree with you.

what is obedience? is it all about what i can agree with? or is it that i submit myself to what i dont understand but trust that the Church according to Christ she is led into all Truth?

the Church cannot teach error. she cannot one teach one Truth here and an error there, one Truth here and one error there. it cannot work like that. hope you can see where i am going.

**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **
Thanks for such interesting remarks. Pauls’ remarks about celibacy are related to his early belief that the second coming would occur within his lifetime. He was basically telling people to stay in the place they were, remain married if married, remain single if single. And of course, if single, celibate. He did not claim that that life was better in any way, although he claimed that he was happy to be in the single category.

Can you show me where Jesus said that the celibate life was best? Since the RCC didn’t institute such a practice for centuries, I’m confused why they avoided following clear instructions like this. I’ve searched my bible and have been unable to find it.

I don’t think that it is ever putting oneself about a church. It is merely believing that a church in the far past has misinterpreted scripture. Most every expert would agree that we understand some things more fully now, and some interpretations of the past were incorrect. Our views of Mary Magdalene have changed rather dramatically over the centuries for instance.

In any case, I would argue that we can never give over to an institution our own deeply felt conscience. But that of course may be another thread.

Certainly if one believes that a church has the right to determine all truth and is given that by God then I guess one should agree no matter how much you might feel deeply that it is wrong. But many simply don’t agree with your conclusion on this.
 
Can you show me where Jesus said that the celibate life was best?
Gospel According to Matthew:

19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

19:11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
 
Thanks for such interesting remarks. Pauls’ remarks about celibacy are related to his early belief that the second coming would occur within his lifetime. He was basically telling people to stay in the place they were, remain married if married, remain single if single. And of course, if single, celibate. He did not claim that that life was better in any way, although he claimed that he was happy to be in the single category.

Can you show me where Jesus said that the celibate life was best? Since the RCC didn’t institute such a practice for centuries, I’m confused why they avoided following clear instructions like this. I’ve searched my bible and have been unable to find it.

I don’t think that it is ever putting oneself about a church. It is merely believing that a church in the far past has misinterpreted scripture. Most every expert would agree that we understand some things more fully now, and some interpretations of the past were incorrect. Our views of Mary Magdalene have changed rather dramatically over the centuries for instance.

In any case, I would argue that we can never give over to an institution our own deeply felt conscience. But that of course may be another thread.

Certainly if one believes that a church has the right to determine all truth and is given that by God then I guess one should agree no matter how much you might feel deeply that it is wrong. But many simply don’t agree with your conclusion on this.
maybe somebody can tell the passage where Jesus talks about marriage and what He said about being like Him without marrying.

you can also read Rev. i have stated that already.

and St Paul also said. “It is good for a man to be married but not not married would be better.”

but the main thing here is that we are thankfull for the CC, the Church of Jesus to keep His Truth intact among so many confusion from those holding the Holy Book without understanding thinking they do and deceiving so many.

**
“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **
 
maybe somebody can tell the passage where Jesus talks about marriage and what He said about being like Him without marrying.

you can also read Rev. i have stated that already.

and St Paul also said. “It is good for a man to be married but not not married would be better.”

but the main thing here is that we are thankfull for the CC, the Church of Jesus to keep His Truth intact among so many confusion from those holding the Holy Book without understanding thinking they do and deceiving so many.

**
“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **
Why dont you start by addressing Peter and the other married aposltes.
Moses and the other married priests of the OT?
 
Why dont you start by addressing Peter and the other married aposltes.
Moses and the other married priests of the OT?
Hisalone. how long have you been here?

why do you keep ignoring what Jesus has said? and St Paul? and Rev.?
the fact is you have learned from those who learned from those who learned from somebody who rebelled against the CC. obviously no matter what the Holy Book says, if support what the CC teaches none of will accept.
that is ok with me.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord through His Church.

as for you. i dont know. hope some day you will repent from persecuting God’s Church, the CC.

**
“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D…**
 
When I walk into a Catholic Church I see graven images, I see kneelers before these images an candles to be lit.
when I walk into a baptist or pentecostal church I see people kneeling in front of a Preacher or sprawled out with a hankercheif on their head (pentecostal) or kneeling before a piano. Does it mean they are worshiping the pastor (which is a graven image), hankercheif or piano? When I walk into a school and see people with their hands over their hearts murmering repetative words like a chant to the american flag are they worshiping a graven image? You need to come up with something better.
 
Gospel According to Matthew:

19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

19:11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
You perceive that as Jesus claiming that all are better off celibate? My, the human race would be in a fine pickle then wouldn’t it? It seems to me he is saying that each should respond as called. He was called apparently to celibacy, much against the culture of his faith. I see nothing that suggests that everyone should emulate this in any way. It is a calling, rather than some requirement.

That is my opinion, and I can’t find anything in commentary frankly that explains it much. Even Meier’s rather intensive treatment doesn’t look at this passage.
 
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