Why do people leave the Catholic Church?

[Ronald_E]

We do not need you to guess. We know as Catholocs paul did not have a difficult relationship, he had a quite simple one actually. He made his choice and was quite confortable with it. He choose to give his life completely to Our Lord and Savoir, he dedicated his whole self to Christ the same way the the RCC Priests and Popes and Bishops do today. Why do you have such a problem with that. The priests are called to do what God asked them and they answer. Why must you persecute them for that, instead of admire them for accepting the call from God?

Rinnie, Why do you find persecution where there is none. I made this statement because Paul shows us in his writings not only the truth of our Catholic faith but also the limitations of his understanding of human beings and their relationship to one another and to themselves. Remember Paul telling us that he does what he does not want to do?
In other rites in our Catholic faith priests are married and they bring a special understanding to the priesthood that an unmarried priest does not have. We can gain new insights from their experience if we are open to hearing what they have to say. We do have the fullness of the Truth in our Catholic faith. That does not mean we understand the fullness of the Truth. I love my priests and I love how they have given up everything for God. The priests in other Catholic Rites who are married also give up everything for God. Being married as a priest may also call for more sacrifice than being unmarried now that I think about this. I will reflect on this more. A priest who is unmarried cannot fully understand what I experience as a married man.
I believe we need more open discussion about this in our faith and not immediate reactions that prevent a deeper reflection that could deepen our understanding of this beautiful Catholic faith we belong to.

 

[Hisalone]

Oh no, we do hear you, and we do understand what you are saying, quite clear actually. You are saying that if we stand in front of a statue and kneel before it, we are replacing that Statue with our Lord Jesus CHrist, are you not? And we are saying that is a complete lie. We know that a Statue of our Lord has not replaced our Lord. That Statue is a reminder of our Lord. When we kneel no matter where it is, it is to one Person Our Lord Jesus Christ.

If I go outside and look up into the heaven, and fall to my knees, I do not worship the sky, I know and Jesus Christ knows I worship him, and him alone. It is you who accuse us of these things. Do you not?

Why did the 3 Hebrew boys refuse to kneel before the statue of Nebacanezer? It was idol worship.

 

[mario_grgic]

LOL
You claim to want a serious discussion yet you do not listen to a thing I say to try to understand my point of view.
I say if you kneel before a statue (which is a form of worship) kiss the statue, follow that statue around in a procession you are not following Christ but another.

The whole Protestantism has been debunked on very simple logic in this very thread actually. Perhaps you should take some time and really investigate the proof:

Why are there over 30,000 Protestant “churches” (denominations), all differing in some crucial “truth” revealed to them by the Holy Spirit (at least they claim so)? So who is right, Jehova’s Witnesses or perhaps Mormons?

But Holy Spirit does not lie. He would not go and tell one group one thing and another something else or opposite. We know who the father of lies is. So those truths are perhaps not revealed by Holy Spirit after all.

Protestantism invites each adherent to read the bible and make their own mind on pretty much anything. But if that is the case, why even belong to any protestant assembly? Why even listen to anything ANY protestant has to say. Their sole authority comes from the fact that they can read!

Jesus founded one church, on Peter the rock. That church has decided what books should be in the Bible, defined Trinity etc. You split from it very late in history and now claim you are the right church? Absurd.

Very last sentence in John’s gospel says that Jesus did so many other things that if every one of them should be written not even the whole world could contain the books that would be written, also going against the “scripture alone”.

Protestantism is total absurdity. So why should I even have a discourse with you? What is it that you think you can teach me? You are here to shout to everyone that you can read? We can do that too.

 

[elvisman]

So you dont want honest discourse?

**I love honest discourse.
**I just wonder about people who make this statement yet dodge honest explanations and questions. **

I’m still waiting for a response from you to my post - #386.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Rinnie and Marion:

I am confused as to why you seem to be arguing. You are both Catholic and yet seem to be disagreeing with each other. Did I miss something? Or did the two of you get confused as to who wrote what and should actually be arguing with someone else? Hisalone comes to mind.

 

[mario_grgic]

Rinnie and Marion:

I am confused as to why you seem to be arguing. You are both Catholic and yet seem to be disagreeing with each other. Did I miss something? Or did the two of you get confused as to who wrote what and should actually be arguing with someone else? Hisalone comes to mind.

Actually we are not . If you look carefully, you will see we are agreeing and we are both responding to HisAlone.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Actually we are not . If you look carefully, you will see we are agreeing and we are both responding to HisAlone.

Thanks for the explanation. My confusion is probably because I put Hisalone on my ignore list, so I may get confused again in the future and have to ask more foolish questions. Still, having Hisalone on ignore makes life much more pleasant for me since I don’t have to deal with all that nonsense, mis-information, heresies and untruths that Hisalone spews forth on every hand. After all, how can you be “His Alone” and deny His Real Presence?

In any case, thanks for setting me straight.

 

[josie_L]

Because of Pride, just read Hisalone’s comments and you will understand.

 

[Ronald_E]

Thanks for the explanation. My confusion is probably because I put Hisalone on my ignore list, so I may get confused again in the future and have to ask more foolish questions. Still, having Hisalone on ignore makes life much more pleasant for me since I don’t have to deal with all that nonsense, mis-information, heresies and untruths that Hisalone spews forth on every hand. After all, how can you be “His Alone” and deny His Real Presence?

In any case, thanks for setting me straight.

Marsha, I had a quick thought without thinking when I read that you had put Hisalone on your ignore list. “Not my thought” is based on an awareness that Hisalone is desperate to be validated as a good human being and is loveable even if he states something that potentially offends someone. He wants to know if he will be loved if he shows us what has not been loved in him by others in his life.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, Why do you find persecution where there is none. I made this statement because Paul shows us in his writings not only the truth of our Catholic faith but also the limitations of his understanding of human beings and their relationship to one another and to themselves. Remember Paul telling us that he does what he does not want to do?
In other rites in our Catholic faith priests are married and they bring a special understanding to the priesthood that an unmarried priest does not have. We can gain new insights from their experience if we are open to hearing what they have to say. We do have the fullness of the Truth in our Catholic faith. That does not mean we understand the fullness of the Truth. I love my priests and I love how they have given up everything for God. The priests in other Catholic Rites who are married also give up everything for God. Being married as a priest may also call for more sacrifice than being unmarried now that I think about this. I will reflect on this more. A priest who is unmarried cannot fully understand what I experience as a married man.
I believe we need more open discussion about this in our faith and not immediate reactions that prevent a deeper reflection that could deepen our understanding of this beautiful Catholic faith we belong to.

I am sorry I took by you saying that Paul did not understand the teachings of the Church. Again please forgive me, my mistake.

 

[Ronald_E]

I am sorry I took by you saying that Paul did not understand the teachings of the Church. Again please forgive me, my mistake.

Rinnie, You did nothing that needs forgiveness. God Bless You and the passion God gives you.
Ron

 

[rinnie]

Why did the 3 Hebrew boys refuse to kneel before the statue of Nebacanezer? It was idol worship.

I have no idea. But that still does not change the fact that when we bow before our Lord at the front of our Church, or when we see anything that reminds us of our Lord and we bow to it, it is a mere symbol of our Lord. Where did you ever see in Church teachings that we have replaced a statue with our Lord Jesus Christ. Please show me that. That is all I am asking. I and many have explained to you that a Statue is not our Lord nor do we feel a Statue has any powers what so ever. If our Lord chooses to work his miracles throught objects, that does not mean the object has power. God can choose to work Miracles how ever and through what ever means he chooses, But we never said Person or any object will replace our Lord. Please show me where that is in our church teachings. Thats all I ask! Because you are accusing us if bowing to objects, When I have explained to you time after time that we bow only to God and the object is just that a reminder of who Our Lord IS, Do you disagree that a picture or statue is not supposed to be a Statue or Picture of our Lord Jesus Christ, Our you saying a statue if Jesus Christ is a statue of a false God. Because if you do, you are indeed saying Jesus CHrist is a false God.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, You did nothing that needs forgiveness. God Bless You and the passion God gives you.
Ron

Thank you Love, Maybe you can help me though. Could you maybe try to explain to hisalone how in the OT God has never revealed himself to us as man. But in the NT he indeed has, so Jesus CHrist hanging on the cross is not a grave image. Thanks Ron, Maybe you can explain it better then me. I am not having much luck.

 

[Hisalone]

So, your assertion is that the Cathiolic Church teaches that we are to worship statues? Is that it?

It is my assertion that the statues placed in Catholic Churchs qualify as graven images.

What did the people of Isreal do in the presence of the Ark - which had 2 gold graven images on top of it (which God commanded)? They prostrated themselves because it was a representation of God. Because the word of God (the tablets) were held within it. Did they worship the Ark? Absolutely not.

God commanded the Isrealites to make the cheibum. He specifically cammanded that other images not be made. God did not liscence all images by His command as your line of reasoning would suggest.

Statues inside a Catholic Church are reminders of those whom we love. Statues and paintings are worship aids that remind us of those who went before us. The same as if you looked at a picture of your daughter lovingly. You don’t love the photo - you love your daughter.

Statues and icons are distractions to the true God who is Spirit and Truth.

You left the Church because you never understood - NOT because the Church taught things that were biblically unsound.

I answered the question. I explained my walk. Because you have unbelief does not mean what I say is not true. It means you have unbelief.

**What is your definition of God’s ONE **Church?

Gods Assembly or Gods Congregation is made up of all born again believers.

What makes the Catholic Church a Church of compromise?

The RCC has compromised with the world. The world system we are called to be light and salt called out of the world into the kingdom of God.
If you know your church history you know at one time the RCC set up kings and princes, governments and and corporal institutions. It compromised itself to be prominent in the world.
The RCC has compromised itsef in regards to paganism. Neither Christmas nor Easter are Gods appointed time. Jesus was not born on Dec 25th so why celebrate His birthday then. Easter is in relation to Passover not a spring sun festival. The apostles celebrated Passover and easter in conjunction to it. You claim apostolic succession yet throw away their very practice.
There are a number of comprimises with paganism but you will not agree to these so the others I will not present them.

 

[rinnie]

Hisalone, Why do you deny that a Statue of Jesus Christ is not the image of God. Why do you choose to totally ignore the NT.

Did Jesus Christ not reveal himself in the image of man. But you for some reason refuse to except this teachings. You instead insist to go back to the OT readings where indeed God did not reveal himself as man.

Again why do you insist on saying a statue of Jesus Christ is a graven image? CAN you answer this question?

 

[mario_grgic]

So, your

assertion is that the Cathiolic Church teaches that we are to worship statues? Is that it?

It is my assertion that the statues placed in Catholic Churchs qualify as graven images.

What did the people of Isreal do in the presence of the Ark - which had 2 gold graven images on top of it (which God commanded)? They prostrated themselves because it was a representation of God. Because the word of God (the tablets) were held within it. Did they worship the Ark? Absolutely not.

God commanded the Isrealites to make the cheibum. He specifically cammanded that other images not be made. God did not liscence all images by His command as your line of reasoning would suggest.

Statues inside a Catholic Church are reminders of those whom we love. Statues and paintings are worship aids that remind us of those who went before us. The same as if you looked at a picture of your daughter lovingly. You don’t love the photo - you love your daughter.

Statues and icons are distractions to the true God who is Spirit and Truth.

You left the Church because you never understood - NOT because the Church taught things that were biblically unsound.

I answered the question. I explained my walk. Because you have unbelief does not mean what I say is not true. It means you have unbelief.

**What is your definition of God’s ONE **Church?

Gods Assembly or Gods Congregation is made up of all born again believers.

What makes the Catholic Church a Church of compromise?

The RCC has compromised with the world. The world system we are called to be light and salt called out of the world into the kingdom of God.
If you know your church history you know at one time the RCC set up kings and princes, governments and and corporal institutions. It compromised itself to be prominent in the world.
The RCC has compromised itsef in regards to paganism. Neither Christmas nor Easter are Gods appointed time. Jesus was not born on Dec 25th so why celebrate His birthday then. Easter is in relation to Passover not a spring sun festival. The apostles celebrated Passover and easter in conjunction to it. You claim apostolic succession yet throw away their very practice.
There are a number of comprimises with paganism but you will not agree to these so the others I will not present them.

Gee, is that all you have? Did you know that Catholics are born again?

Winter solstice was/is a pagan holiday, and church has replaced it successfully with a Christian one, which in my mind is a good thing.

Easter is the time Jesus was crucified, died on the cross and resurrected 3 days later. So what’s your problem with that? It is on the right date.

You know you have been educated to hate the God’s true church without ever questioning where that hatred comes from. Why was it started and for what motive. Yet again you are doing things in the spirit of Satan.

 

[rinnie]

I have no idea. But that still does not change the fact that when we bow before our Lord at the front of our Church, or when we see anything that reminds us of our Lord and we bow to it, it is a mere symbol of our Lord. Where did you ever see in Church teachings that we have replaced a statue with our Lord Jesus Christ. Please show me that. That is all I am asking. I and many have explained to you that a Statue is not our Lord nor do we feel a Statue has any powers what so ever. If our Lord chooses to work his miracles throught objects, that does not mean the object has power. God can choose to work Miracles how ever and through what ever means he chooses, But we never said Person or any object will replace our Lord. Please show me where that is in our church teachings. Thats all I ask! Because you are accusing us if bowing to objects, When I have explained to you time after time that we bow only to God and the object is just that a reminder of who Our Lord IS, Do you disagree that a picture or statue is not supposed to be a Statue or Picture of our Lord Jesus Christ, Our you saying a statue if Jesus Christ is a statue of a false God. Because if you do, you are indeed saying Jesus CHrist is a false God.

I am sorry I meant I have no idea how you could compare a false image of God to the True image of Jesus Christ. THat should have been my first sentence. I was in a hurry. But I would still like to see where in the RCC teachings we replaced Jesus with a Statue of his image. I am still waiting.

 

[rinnie]

Hisalone;4873512:

Gee, is that all you have? Did you know that Catholics are born again?

Winter solstice was/is a pagan holiday, and church has replaced it successfully with a Christian one, which in my mind is a good thing.

Easter is the time Jesus was crucified, died on the cross and resurrected 3 days later. So what’s your problem with that? It is on the right date.

You know you have been educated to hate the God’s true church without ever questioning where that hatred comes from. Why was it started and for what motive. Yet again you are doing things in the spirit of Satan.

You are right. They come up with some pretty far fetched things huh. What is their problem. Why do they call Jesus a graven image. They deny our church, our Christ, our Holidays. Whats next. Being this is lent all we can do is pray that Our dear Lord will somehow come into their hearts and hopefully open up their eyes to what they are doing to his Church. God Bless.

 

[rinnie]

Sorry Mario that was you post don’t know how it became hisalones.

 

[elvisman]

It is my assertion that the statues placed in Catholic Churchs qualify as graven images.

What about the pictures in your wallet or the ones hanging on your walls?
One of the saddest things about this flawed interpretation of Scripture is that you have twisted it to your own destruction – as you have many others.

Exodus 20:3-5 explicitly states that God is speaking of IDOL WORSHIP – not the making of images themselves. This is why he told them to make the golden cherubim atop the Ark. They were allowed to make things – just not WORSHIP them.
**You shall not have other gods besides me. **
**You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; **
**you shall not bow down before them or worship them. **

God commanded the Isrealites to make the cheibum. He specifically cammanded that other images not be made. God did not liscence all images by His command as your line of reasoning would suggest.

Oh, really? Where?
God instructed Moses to make a bronze serpent and place it on a pole so that those who looked on it were cured.
Read Scripture in CONTEXT, my confused friend.

Statues and icons are distractions to the true God who is Spirit and Truth.

What about when they are depictions of Him and his Truths?

I answered the question. I explained my walk. Because you have unbelief does not mean what I say is not true. It means you have unbelief.

Which question is this an answer to?

Gods Assembly or Gods Congregation is made up of all born again believers.

That’s not what Scripture says. Where did you get this from?

The RCC has compromised with the world. The world system we are called to be light and salt called out of the world into the kingdom of God.
If you know your church history you know at one time the RCC set up kings and princes, governments and and corporal institutions. It compromised itself to be prominent in the world.
The RCC has compromised itsef in regards to paganism. Neither Christmas nor Easter are Gods appointed time. Jesus was not born on Dec 25th so why celebrate His birthday then. Easter is in relation to Passover not a spring sun festival. The apostles celebrated Passover and easter in conjunction to it. You claim apostolic succession yet throw away their very practice.
There are a number of comprimises with paganism but you will not agree to these so the others I will not present them.

The Church has never compromised herself. There have been weak or corrupt leaders but that doesn’t nullify the truth.
Please show me where the Church compromises with paganism. I must know where you’re getting this tripe. If you refuse to tell me – it only illustrates another empty, false accusation.