Why do people leave the Faith. What are we doing wrong?

[SuperLuigi]

1. Being way too judgemental, intolerant of other opinions, and Negative.

I will note that disagreeing with secular positions is not judgmental, successfully decimating non-Catholic arguments is not intolerant and correcting others is not negative.

I can see how someone might find the suggestions in this post suspect because perhaps some folks want us to lay down in order to give them the advantage in discussions.

However, the Truth speaks for itself. :yup:

1. Taking all of the bible Literally.

I don’t see Catholics doing that. We don’t believe in sola Scripture and have nearly 2000 years of divine, scholarly guidance by some of history’s finest minds and natural law.

1. Refusing to even consider the remote possibility that the Church/Pope could
   actually be wrong about some teachings. (Infallibility)

This is a Catholic Forum, and what is suggested here could lead to violation of forum rules.

If the possibility is indeed remote in your mind, why aren’t you Catholic?

1. again #1. Instead of Love and Compassion, I see constant negativity on these boards, Heaven forbid (no pun intended) if you are a gay Muslim Obama supporter.

To quote liberal Alan Colmes “yeah, because those groups have so much in common”.

PMs may be a different story, but on the forums I see the gay victim card getting played, racism npatrol:. I also see that GLBTQ behaviors and Islam are defended fairly strongly on here.

It may surprise you, but a more conservative who voted for Romney, heh, if you think the forums are rough, you should see some of the PM’s I’ve gotten and what some of the people I talk to here have been told.

So…there’s some room for improvement to be sure.

However, love and compassion is not giving into secular demands or making excuses for oneself and/or others to be selfish. It’s also not agreeing with everyone just to make someone feel good.

:tiphat:

 

[robwar]

Not on this post but certainly on this site many times over. If you haven’t read them you are very lucky, because I have many times, and only God can make those decisions.

There are certain behaviors (usually they fall in the sexual kind) that if someone is caught up in them, they are considered mortal sin by the Catholic Church which if not repented of are not going to lead someone on the road to heaven. Now, I’ve seen questions concerning basic morality brought up on this forum and again people point to what the Church teaches which is these sorts of sins will cut one off from God. I think the accusation that people leave the faith (the subject of this thread) due to “judgemental” attitudes of others are probably not very interested in looking at or dealing with their own sin or behavior in their own lives. “jugdemental” attitudes are too often used and it’s a poor excuse. Any religion that has clearly defined lines of morality, dogma and doctrine can end up being accused of being “judgemental” and there are certainly “judgemental” people in other faiths, not just Catholic. With an anything goes, I’m ok and you’re ok society and culture, any religion that clearly defines right and wrong, good and bad is going to be accused of being judgemental. Its a red herring accusation and lame excuse.

 

[Estevao]

IMO it’s bad catechesis. “Apologetics and Catholic Doctrine” used to be a standard text for high school religion classes, and now it’s usually some PC drivel.

 

[WilT]

No. The Church must teach which matters carry a gravity sufficient to be a mortal sin. The Church does not read hearts, is not charged with assessing culpability, and does not hold power over the mercy of God. The Church has not declared a single person to have been condemned to Hell, as this is a judgment reserved to God alone.

It is the Church’s office, rather, to warn those who will hear what they have heard from the Apostolic teaching concerning what things are forbidden, what are permitted, and what are duties, and the gravity of each thing. If the Church were to fail to do this, it would be the Church which would be liable to judgment for a grave dereliction of duty.

 

[WilT]

Here’s a more logical approach and a better one because is applies wisdom as well:

]Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability.”

• Vererable Fulton J Sheen

 

[DAML72]

I only know a few who have left. I think the sex abuse scandal had a lot to do with those cases. There were also instances of priests being completely out of touch with the needs of the parishioners. (Having to explain what sexual abuse is to young children in the parking lot of church after priest read a letter from the bishop from the pulpit that should not have been read in front of children in one case. In another, failure to minister appropriately to a woman going through hell in her marriage and lack of concern for her needs in getting the children to religious education classes.) Others are just steaming mad at the church. I have a friend who I think lost all faith because of her disgust with the conduct of priests.

In my parish. also, there is a real lack of ministry for children. PREP classes are very focused on the rules and memorization - they don’t convey a living, breathing, dynamic relationship with God.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[808Catholic]

My guess is that we are not living our Faith as Jesus has instructed us too. Paul also teaches us how we should be living our lives as faithful, loving Christians. Unfortunately, are witnessing may be poor. How can we improve ourselves as a living, loving Church?

I hear this question very often and some reply “we need to update our image” or “use new methods to reach out” or something like that. Christ knew we would face challenges but He also left us with very specific directions: go out and spread the Word. When did we ever think participating in Bible study or praying the Rosary was going to be enough? Those we need to reach out to are NOT in church or chapel; they’re out there in the world.

If you have a choice of visiting or calling someone, opt for visiting so you can interact as humans were designed to: face to face. The majority of communication is non-verbal for humans; body language and facial expressions convey more power and truth than just the voice.

If you have a choice of calling or texting/emailing, call them. The spoken word carries power beyond a string of alphabets. Jesus is a great example of this as He spoke to the crowds; He didn’t write a bunch of stuff and hand them out.

If you have a choice of texting/emailing them or making a form letter that’s going to be published in your parish bulletin, send a hand written note with a heart felt message. “Please come home. We miss you.” In our mass media culture, form letters are given less than 5 seconds of review before the reader chooses to keep or throw the letter away. This is an extraordinarily short amount of time you have to get your invitation out and you might evangelize better with a great short message than a windy long one.

Gather a core team of enthusiastic/energetic parishioners and DO SOMETHING! Have a picnic. Go bowling. Watch a good movie. DO SOMETHING. The Church has so much tradition and depth of faith, most of us forget those who leave the church aren’t at our level yet. That’s okay! Let’s keep them engages socially until we can deepen their understanding and faith. Invite those who seem to be reverting/converting to become part of the outreach team so they can give testimony to other reverts/converts.

I believe Christ meant for ALL of us to be active and not just waiting for the pastor or the parish administrator to ask us to do something. Be an apostle (active practitioner) and not just a disciple (follower.)

 

[WilT]

WHY DO PEOPLE LEAVE THE FAITH? The Catholic Church is the Sole Guardian of the Truth. The Catholic Church therefore is the best interpreter of what the Truth is especially since it was instituted by Christ Himself. Since the Church is physically run by men, the Word can be intercepted incorrectly due to our human weakness and failures. Many people, even well meaning churchgoers get it wrong but still the Truth remains with the Church. Christ will remain with us till the end of time, He said. And so will His Truth. God is love. Christ is love. The Holy Spirit is love. That is the Truth and this Truth will be sent out the rest of the world for all to know.

 

[WilT]

Why do people leave the Church? Because they may chose to listen to The Lie.

Remember, Christ resides within Our Church and when we are going to the Holy Mass, that 1 hr. or so should be all about God ****and not our feelings.

It is when our feelings run us and decide for us is when we make mistakes.

 

[EasterJoy]

Why do people leave the Church? Because they may chose to listen to The Lie.

Remember, Christ resides within Our Church and when we are going to the Holy Mass, that 1 hr. or so should be all about God ****and not our feelings.

It is when our feelings run us and decide for us is when we make mistakes.

If this is all, though, this is not realistic. If we treat our brothers and sisters as if it isn’t our business to concern ourselves with their feelings, that is a scandal and a near occasion of sin.

“I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another. This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:34-35

Speaking the truth is our duty, but it is not enough to speak the truth only. If we don’t live the truth by loving as we have been commanded, the words aren’t going to be believed. If we do not care about the feelings of others, that is not love. That doesn’t mean teaching others to be the slaves of their feelings, but it doesn’t mean denigrating their feelings, either. It certainly doesn’t mean lacking compassion for them. If people are struggling with hard feelings, they need support to bear them.

*However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it. For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not kill.” Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom. For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. *
James 2:8-17

 

[freeRadical]

I think the simplest answer to why people leave the Church is this: They don’t believe some or all of what the Catholic Church teaches anymore.

I think most people who have left have had some doubt about a certain teaching or disagreed with one minor thing and are then told they are a bad Catholic, how dare they question the Church, etc.

Not to mention so called American Catholicism, but I won’t get into that here.

 

[WilT]

If this is all, though, this is not realistic. If we treat our brothers and sisters as if it isn’t our business to concern ourselves with their feelings, that is a scandal and a near occasion of sin.

Speaking the truth is our duty, but it is not enough to speak the truth only. If we don’t live the truth by loving as we have been commanded, the words aren’t going to be believed. If we do not care about the feelings of others, that is not love. That doesn’t mean teaching others to be the slaves of their feelings, but it doesn’t mean denigrating their feelings, either. It certainly doesn’t mean lacking compassion for them. If people are struggling with hard feelings, they need support to bear them.

‘Remember, Christ resides within Our Church and when we are going to the Holy Mass, that 1 hr. or so should be all about God and not our feelings.’

 

[paulrxp]

WHY DO PEOPLE LEAVE THE FAITH? The Catholic Church is the Sole Guardian of the Truth. The Catholic Church therefore is the best interpreter of what the Truth is especially since it was instituted by Christ Himself. Since the Church is physically run by men, the Word can be intercepted incorrectly due to our human weakness and failures. Many people, even well meaning churchgoers get it wrong but still the Truth remains with the Church. Christ will remain with us till the end of time, He said. And so will His Truth. God is love. Christ is love. The Holy Spirit is love. That is the Truth and this Truth will be sent out the rest of the world for all to know.

After 6 pages. One person actually gets it.

 

[dedo]

One thing that is missing and a little sad about this thread is the focus on cause instead of solutions.

Some people feel compelled to “defend the faith” and “point out error”. However, I think we should also accept that the degree to which anyone will listen to such arguments is totally dependent on the love, service, and compassion demonstrated by the person doing the talking. Otherwise we are just noise. 1st Cor: 13.

Also, warnings about sin do not convert anyone. They may save someone from harming themselves to the degree that the warner adheres to 1st Cor: 13.

What does turn people to the faith are acts of kindness that many believers engage in.

 

[shelby_sun]

There are certain behaviors (usually they fall in the sexual kind) that if someone is caught up in them, they are considered mortal sin by the Catholic Church which if not repented of are not going to lead someone on the road to heaven. Now, I’ve seen questions concerning basic morality brought up on this forum and again people point to what the Church teaches which is these sorts of sins will cut one off from God. I think the accusation that people leave the faith (the subject of this thread) due to “judgemental” attitudes of others are probably not very interested in looking at or dealing with their own sin or behavior in their own lives. “jugdemental” attitudes are too often used and it’s a poor excuse. Any religion that has clearly defined lines of morality, dogma and doctrine can end up being accused of being “judgemental” and there are certainly “judgemental” people in other faiths, not just Catholic. With an anything goes, I’m ok and you’re ok society and culture, any religion that clearly defines right and wrong, good and bad is going to be accused of being judgemental. Its a red herring accusation and lame excuse.

First and foremost I considered and recognize I am a sinner before anyone else and am worthy of any and all judgments God sees fit for me, but from others. I do not think it is right for me to judge as I am also a sinner, red herring excuse or not.

 

[alexandratm]

My grandmother left for a very long time, because she had a baby that died shortly after birth, and the church’s teachings on limbo, and how it was expressed to her, caused a lot of pain.

Some aunts and uncles left the church, as they couldn’t bring themselves to participate after the sex abuse scandals.

Many cousins have left because of poor catechesis on a multi-generational level, so that no one understands why the church holds certain positions.

There are a variety of reasons, but I doubt you’d find true answers here. People who have left the Catholic faith aren’t the ones responding to this thread. What our perception is, and what the true reason may be are very different things. All we can do focusing on loving our neighbor.

 

[shelby_sun]

My grandmother left for a very long time, because she had a baby that died shortly after birth, and the church’s teachings on limbo, and how it was expressed to her, caused a lot of pain.

Some aunts and uncles left the church, as they couldn’t bring themselves to participate after the sex abuse scandals.

Many cousins have left because of poor catechesis on a multi-generational level, so that no one understands why the church holds certain positions.

There are a variety of reasons, but I doubt you’d find true answers here. People who have left the Catholic faith aren’t the ones responding to this thread. What our perception is, and what the true reason may be are very different things. All we can do focusing on loving our neighbor.

 

[EasterJoy]

EasterJoy;12241163:

If this is all, though, this is not realistic. If we treat our brothers and sisters as if it isn’t our business to concern ourselves with their feelings, that is a scandal and a near occasion of sin.

Speaking the truth is our duty, but it is not enough to speak the truth only. If we don’t live the truth by loving as we have been commanded, the words aren’t going to be believed. If we do not care about the feelings of others, that is not love. That doesn’t mean teaching others to be the slaves of their feelings, but it doesn’t mean denigrating their feelings, either. It certainly doesn’t mean lacking compassion for them. If people are struggling with hard feelings, they need support to bear them.

So in my quote, if I understand you somewhat, the celebration of Christ during Mass time is secondary to those attending Mass? A person walks in at Mass time with a cast on a broken leg, according to you we should forget about the Mass celebration and instead feel compassion about the persons leg and his/her limp. Shall we then adore the layperson or should adoration be to Christ in the Holy Mass?

No, we should remember what the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is all about and why Our Lord told us He instituted it in the first place! Why did Our Lord wash the feet of his Apostles at their first Mass? He told them the reason: what was it? This is what He told them:

“I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another. This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:34-35

and

“Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him.” John 14:21

The Eucharist creates communion and fosters communion. Saint Paul wrote to the faithful of Corinth explaining how their divisions, reflected in their Eucharistic gatherings, contradicted what they were celebrating, the Lord’s Supper. The Apostle then urged them to reflect on the true reality of the Eucharist in order to return to the spirit of fraternal communion (cf. 1 Cor 11:17- 34). Saint Augustine effectively echoed this call when, in recalling the Apostle’s words: “You are the body of Christ and individually members of it” (1 Cor 12: 27), he went on to say: “If you are his body and members of him, then you will find set on the Lord’s table your own mystery. Yes, you receive your own mystery”.84 And from this observation he concludes: “Christ the Lord… hallowed at his table the mystery of our peace and unity. Whoever receives the mystery of unity without preserving the bonds of peace receives not a mystery for his benefit but evidence against himself”.
Pope St. John Paul II, Ecclesia de Eucharista, 40, italics as in the text published at
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_20030417_eccl-de-euch_en.html

 

[WilT]

EasterJoy;12241163:

If this is all, though, this is not realistic. If we treat our brothers and sisters as if it isn’t our business to concern ourselves with their feelings, that is a scandal and a near occasion of sin.

I believe you believe in Christianity being warm and fuzzy but unfortunately it’s not about feeling warm and fuzzy all the time as you suppose. Jesus and Paul taught with verbal force when needed to correct, teach, and for defending the Truth. Defending the Truth may and will entail you to correct those who error. I believe it is a fruit of ‘the Holy Spirit’. So, Being warm and seeking fuzzy feelings is not what our Faith is about. Following the Truth may demand we correct others when they error. You maybe asking yourself ’ who is to say you have the Truth?’ The Truth can be found in the Scriptures and Holy Mother Church. I’m not debating whether or not we should love one another. Of course so, but when time comes to correct others who are Christians, that are in error, we are called to correct them and yes that may mean being hard on them . Paul I believe asks that there be 2 witnesses to correct the one in error.

 

[EasterJoy]

WilT;12241206:

EasterJoy;12241163:

If this is all, though, this is not realistic. If we treat our brothers and sisters as if it isn’t our business to concern ourselves with their feelings, that is a scandal and a near occasion of sin.

I believe you believe in Christianity being warm and fuzzy but unfortunately it’s not about feeling warm and fuzzy all the time as you suppose. Jesus and Paul taught with verbal force when needed to correct, teach, and for defending the Truth. Defending the Truth may and will entail you to correct those who error. I believe it is a fruit of ‘the Holy Spirit’. So, Being warm and seeking fuzzy feelings is not what our Faith is about. Following the Truth may demand we correct others when they error. You maybe asking yourself ’ who is to say you have the Truth?’ The Truth can be found in the Scriptures and Holy Mother Church. I’m not debating whether or not we should love one another. Of course so, but when time comes to correct others who are Christians, that are in error, we are called to correct them and yes that may mean being hard on them . Paul I believe asks that there be 2 witnesses to correct the one in error.

I’m not sure what you are saying, and I’m really not sure why you are setting up full participation at Mass and seeing to the “bonds of peace” in the Church one against the other, as if the two were in competition. Are you saying that as a Christian, it is none of your concern if somebody gets their feelings hurt by the way you choose to treat them or how you choose to correct them?

Kindness is an indispensable part of fraternal charity. I don’t know how one can read the epistles in their plain sense and not get that. As St. Augustine put it (as quoted by Pope St. John Paul II): Whoever receives the mystery of unity without preserving the bonds of peace receives not a mystery for his benefit but evidence against himself.

“'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.” (Matt. 25:40)–that is in the context of the Final Judgment. It must be pretty important, yes?

You do remember that I have plainly said that fraternal correction is part of fraternal charity, right? I am only noting that if you think that the faith consists of being perfect and “fraternally” correcting other people’s faults with no thought to seeing to their needs, you have missed the boat. Fraternal charity needs the whole package.