Why do people object to youth ministry?

[PClark456]

I think the only time you should separate genders is when the conversation warrants it. Subjects like sex, vocations and dignity of marriage is best spoken to small groups separated by gender.

 

[DarkLight]

I think the only time you should separate genders is when the conversation warrants it. Subjects like sex, vocations and dignity of marriage is best spoken to small groups separated by gender.

Probably. My biggest issue was that most of my friends from before were male - I just didn’t seem to have anything in common with the young women my age. We did talk about certain issues alone, but the times I had to experience basic Bible study in separate groups just never seemed to be half as worthwhile.

And for goodness’s sake, please remember to discuss vocations, all vocations, with both men and women! I never want to go through the “preparation to be a wife and mother” again, when I have absolutely no intention of either!

 

[Rocky24]

I’m a young person and I absolutely despise the youth ministry in a parish near me. The Eucharist is hardly ever talked about and when it is it’s all about “community” and “sharing a meal”. They never talk about the Real Presence. Issues that affect us young people today such as pornography, masturbation and all that filth are waved off and not talked about. In that ministry, the young people are invited to start singing and playing guitars during Mass on the altar. It’s all about WE ARE CHURCH.

 

[james_neville]

Good question.

The easy answer is that everyone on this earth will have a different opinion on the “best” way of doing something. More traditional catholics will give the traditional approach and more modern catholics will give you their approach.

Both approaches have their strong points (just as psychologists work on the basis of a particular perspective e.g. evolutionary psychology vs cognitive psychology). Neither one is wrong, but a different way of answering the same question. I guess my perspective (as a youth minister of a parish containing 3 churches and a psychology student) is that it is a relative and dynamic thing which you have to work out for your own area. Between the 3 churches i work at within my parish there is a significant difference between the church cultures, something i need to balance and cater for.

There has to be the right balance between formation and fun. You can have social events because we are social creatures of God, showing kids that Catholics can have a good time in good company and it doesn’t have to be out there getting drunk and drugged up every friday night. (i often wonder did jesus spend his entire time at parties preaching his ministry or did he talk about other things, would have been pretty hard to build a relationship if he did wouldn’t you think?-just a thought).

Youth ministry social events are also a part of community building which is a vital aspect of our worship in our corporate setting of the mass. We also have to remember that kids biologically have a shorter attention span, so in order to better achieve formation it must be engaging which is often fun otherwise no one would take part. As mentioned earlier this has to tailor not just to introverts but to extraverts also as both are engaged in different ways. Youth Ministry has to be comprehensive set up in this way.

That being said i also separate social events from weekly youth group more focused on scripture and fun learning activities.

To say that youth ministries shouldn’t surround themselves in pure emotional experience i agree with. But having strong emotional experiences are necessary for motivation otherwise we wouldn’t do anything. Without the emotion of love, we wouldn’t seek relationship, without hate people wouldn’t seek revenge and without pleasure and enjoyment we wouldn’t seek out these things which make us happy and God makes us happy (for most anyway). For people to seek faith like it or not shallow emotional feelings are i would argue an important step into experiencing a deeper enjoyment. I believe it is a gradual transition that is experienced over time, especially when moving from childhood to adulthood.

Youth and kids also often speak another language to adults, they have different levels of interests, views and comprehension about the world because they are obviously growing up and havent experienced a large deal. (something loads of adults fail to remember and they (adults) think ‘now they shouldn’t be doing that because that wouldn’t help me in my faith if i was their age’). This kind of mentality i think generates most of the problem. But people have to realise that peoples faiths develop differently and what may be appropriate to one person (an adult) is sometimes completely irrelevant to another (youth).

i’ll give another example. you wouldnt teach university maths to a grade 7 kid would you? No you would start with the basics and also try and teach it in an engaging way that relates to the person you are teaching to, only later on can they start to appreciate the bigger picture, but not straight away.
As mentioned in earlier posts regarding skits i believe that skits can be engaging for some youth population which may not be the same for adults and other youth. the only difference you may need to think about is putting some variety into your learning to keep youth who aren’t engaged, engaged. doing skits over and over again may provide the opposite result and disengage youth. Having a varied approach is best from my experience and shown to be very effective in many youth ministry books that i have read.

Youth are different to adults, and this is a normal part of life that needs to be encouraged. Youth have an identity which is commonly overlooked often followed by the words “can’t you just grow up already”…well no, youth are at their stage of life, just as the 50 year old man and women are, you cant rush important steps in a persons life, if anything is testimony to this look at michael jacksons life (he didn’t have a childhood and how many problems does it appear to have caused him and his family over the years…(I Love his music btw and think it is some of the best i have ever heard, im not bashing him but just trying to make a point).

Going away on a camping trip with activities is DEFINITELY A RETREAT provided God is talked about and experienced THROUGH the activities. A lot of people find their relationship with God while out and about experiencing his creation i.e. in wilderness/canoeing adventures. This is a beautiful and powerful thing, don’t underestimate it! For a lot of people it gives them the chance to get away from all the stuff they deal with at home and hang with the creator in his beautiful garden.

All that being said it may very well be that meditation, pure prayer time, adoration and similar practice are exactly what your youth ministry needs. It must be tailored to where your youth are at with their faith and what must engage them in a way that doesn’t go against the church but complements its natural diversity of cultures and different age groups. In youth ministry you have to place the NEEDS of youth above your own wants. Only then will youth be able to enter into a relationship with Jesus and continue in their Journey of Faith.

 

[Faithdancer]

Some youth ministry over focuses on “experiential”, often as a competitive response to Young Life, and other Evangelical Protestant groups.

There is no acknowledgement of forming the intellect or developing the will, or the interior life. It’s all aimed at the emotions, and this is mere little wind in the sail.

That’s very apt, Edward. The emotional approach seems too close to the “born again” moment of the evangelicals, which lasts what- a day? a week? The Roman Catholic faith is distinguished, among many other aspects, by its twin emphasis on faith and reason. Trying to help young learners develop lifelong faith through emotion alone is not the best approach.

That being said, God bless the OP for his dedication and commitment. It’s not easy, I know- I’m trying to build youth ministry in a parish which has plenty of adolescents and their families, but at the English language masses its pretty much a 55 and up crowd.

 

[DarkLight]

I wonder about this - how much is just a problem of lumping all “youth” together? I mean, do we put all adults into the same program? That was my experience - it’s hard to do a good youth ministry because, just like with adults, not all “youth” of the same age need or benefit from the same thing. I would have preferred to sit down quietly and study; I hated the loud “let’s get excited for Jesus!” events. Others in the group had trouble staying focused for long periods of quiet but benefited from the concerts and dramas. It really felt like the program was trying to shoehorn everyone into the same mold of “what’s best for the youth” while ignoring our individual differences.

 

[Faithdancer]

Please…I am being too argumentative. I am from a very big parish…and the unintended consequence of YM in our parish is parents dropping off their kids as if it’s just another soccer match, piano class, Karate class, etc. They detach.

Excellent observation…youth ministry as day care. It’s a real problem. For example, I ordered the Theology of the Body program materials on a trial basis, and couldn’t get parents to show up to watch the parent’s video segment. Their own kids, but the parents don’t seem concerned about what I’m going to present to their kids. Now I may have to return the program which is too bad, because I think it’s excellent and if it keeps one kid from getting pregnant, “date-raped,” etc…

 

[Faithdancer]

I wonder about this - how much is just a problem of lumping all “youth” together? I mean, do we put all adults into the same program? That was my experience - it’s hard to do a good youth ministry because, just like with adults, not all “youth” of the same age need or benefit from the same thing. I would have preferred to sit down quietly and study; I hated the loud “let’s get excited for Jesus!” events. Others in the group had trouble staying focused for long periods of quiet but benefited from the concerts and dramas. It really felt like the program was trying to shoehorn everyone into the same mold of “what’s best for the youth” while ignoring our individual differences.

It’s unfortunate that just as in the public schools, differentiated learning and application of multiple intelligence theory are very difficult to put into practice. And in multi-age learning situations, its virtually impossible unless the instructor: student ratio is very, very low.

 

[Robyn_p]

I wonder about this - how much is just a problem of lumping all “youth” together? I mean, do we put all adults into the same program? That was my experience - it’s hard to do a good youth ministry because, just like with adults, not all “youth” of the same age need or benefit from the same thing. I would have preferred to sit down quietly and study; I hated the loud “let’s get excited for Jesus!” events. Others in the group had trouble staying focused for long periods of quiet but benefited from the concerts and dramas. It really felt like the program was trying to shoehorn everyone into the same mold of “what’s best for the youth” while ignoring our individual differences.

That’s exactly how I felt!! There may be a solution though. I took a seminar on youth ministry and the presenter was a youth minister with a vibrant youth group. He said he had the same problem you described, and not many were coming as a result. So what he ended up doing was having almost three different youth groups. One was just pure social, for kids who had no interest in religion, in order to open them up to the idea that maybe being Catholic isn’t so bad. Then another for the “let’s get excited for Jesus” crowd like you were talking about. It gave the basics of the faith too. Then he started another one for those who wanted to go deeper. It was a bible study/apologetics meeting.
At first it was at his house, because he didn’t expect very many to show up. Within a few weeks there were 70 kids coming over to his house! And it’s only grown since then! Sounds impossible!

Teens DO want to go deeper, they just aren’t given the opportunity, because too many underestimate them. Obviously we can’t ignore the ones who aren’t there yet, but pigeon-holing never works for anything. I just wish my parish had this sorta thing.

Anyway, this is just how one guy did it, but it had amazing results so there might be something to it.

 

[Kenny_Kamel]

I am a Youth Minister in my Diocese and am currently working with my Cathedral Parish Youth Group and an entity simply known as Young Adult Mass (or YAM). Other local parishes have taken an interest in me insofar as helping them with their youth groups, PSR, venturing crew, etc.

YAM is a ministry that has had major problems from its beginning and has a poor reputation in the area. Many of the people who run YAM seem to have a penchant for driving people away who want to grow and enhance this ministry. I serve one the Young Adult Advisory Board and despite doing everything they’ve asked of me thus far no progress has been made. One month they talk about needing to reach out to high schoolers, I get involved in high school youth groups and report back… everyone could care less. One month they talk about reaching out to successful young adult ministries in the Saint Louis, MO area, I had previously lived in that area within the past year and was a part of numerous successful ministries and am still in contact with much of their leadership… no one ever wanted to talk about Saint Louis stuff again after that.

I’ve come to find out that despite our best intentions sometimes the people operating youth ministries are their own poison pill. In the case of YAM, they were kicked out of a local Catholic University, sullied ties with the original founding clergy members, have poor turnout at social events and community service projects, poor fundraising, there is no vision or purpose in the ministry, and anyone who actually wants to improve things has to deal with detractors who are essentially destroying the entity they are charged with the responsibility of.

 

[Melchior_1]

When do you plan on teaching about the 9 levels of prayer, St. John of the Cross, and the interior life? People need to get past vocal prayer.

I bring it up often, actually. I’ve given talks and workshops on Lectio Divina, mendicant spirituality, and Gospel Poverty.

You’re 20 now. You’re still young. I’m almost 30 and have seen where the LifeTeen crowd of my youth have gone, and it isn’t the straight and narrow path.

I’m 30 currently, we’re about the same age. The difference is that where, I’ve seen where the youth and volunteers have gone, several have become active within the church community, building solid (and large) families, and continue on to do youth ministry in there own right. I current help support six university missionaries. Out of them, three were youth, two were volunteers, and the sixth was a youth who became the assistant youth coordinator at our church and then accepted God’s call for her to be a missionary to university students.

The problem is LifeTeen does not bear fruit.

As I described above, it can and does. Just because your program didn’t work out well (or the way you wanted it to) does not mean every program is like this. It would be like if I painted every member of the FSSP the same based on meeting the Sede’s who attended their parish that I ran into.

It makes youth feel warm fuzzies for a few years, but eventually those youth grow up and outgrow those warm fuzzies and seek different “Warm fuzzies”

Actually, eventually the youth grow up and have a solid faith, as their faith matures as well. Looking back, I see those who never put any investment into their time within the program, and they did fall away. Others, on the otherhand, did invest and in my parish we’re seeing the fruits of those now.

It’s not that we’re “holier than thou”, but we are concerned for all souls involved. These youth are going to have to bear crosses, and thus will need a good solid foundation from the saints to bear those crosses.

I agree, which is why these are being taught at Life Teen parishes across the globe.

I’m assuming you’ve read Life Teen’s material, yes? You’ve looked at their books, at their website, and their resources.

 

[Melchior_1]

To the OP; nine years.

Every Sunday, seven hours. Each Sunday. For nine years. In addition, I handle the RCIA for youth and young adults which takes place during the week, I’ve been doing that for I believe four years now.

I’ve been involved in a Life Teen program for nine years as a volunteer. There’s no more important ministry than high school kids. They are the future of the Church, the future of the world. They aren’t getting formation at school, and half of the kids are missing parents through death or divorce. As a thirty year old man who is married with a toddler, the kids see me as a paternal figure. I’m no longer the “big brother”, I’m now a father-figure. In some cases, it reaches a near surrogate level due to that some of the kids come from broken or abusive homes. They need that kind of male role model to look up to.

I teach kids about the faith, and as mentioned that includes converts. Several of the kids of gone on mission trips, some have joined the seminary, some have gotten married and are having boatloads of kids. Some are picking noble professions like becoming family doctors. They’re joining the Knights, they are attending daily Mass, they aren’t using birth control. NFP is being discussed fluently by alumnus, in some cases my wife and I have taught NFP techniques, and referred people to practitioners. We had pamphlets at our parish which discussed NaPro technology, our priests preached about it in his homily at all Masses, including the one that the youth attend.

Contemporary music does happen, and is happening by talented musicians and probably the best music group in the city. As far as instrumentalists go, I’m the least trained person there and I’ve been playing percussion since 1998, so I’m “pretty fair”. The singers are good, the congregation knows the songs and sings them. Active participation at Mass, who’d a thunk it?

The priests at our parish are solid. I encourage you to look up the Companions of the Cross, they are a Society of Apostolic Life. They do outstanding work, and I wouldn’t be shocked if their founder gets looked at soon by Rome in a “Servant of God” sense.

Outside of my wife and son, there is nothing in my life more important than youth ministry. Nothing. So to see people in this thread sling mud and defame an organization that is tireless in leading teens/middleschoolers closer to Christ in the Eucharist (and being carried there in the arms of Our Blessed Virgin Mother), it bothers me a lot.

I expect better than that from Catholics on a Catholic message board.

To the OP; keep the faith, and if you’re called to do youth ministry then dive in regardless of what the critics say. Instruct the youth, form solid relationships with them. Be their spiritual mentor, lead them to the Cross and into the arms of our Mother. Help them climb the Summit of our Faith, and get to the Eucharist. Show them the ways of the desert fathers, and the ways of the mendicants.

And remember what St. James says; “you show me your faith by what you say, I’ll show you my faith by what I do”.

God bless, and thank you for your “yes” to Christ Jesus, and His call for you to do youth ministry. And remember to give God permission to do whatever He wants in your life.

“Lord, I give you permission to do whatever it is in my life that is Your will. I trust in your Divine Mercy, and will do as our Mother says; ‘do whatever He tells you’”.

 

[karanth]

You just proved my point. Your objections are that we’re trying to be just like the “rah rah rah” churches. Sorry, but from my own experience, I dare say it’s not true. Take the high school group I volunteer for: we will have a meal, watch a video (typically), then break up into small groups and have deep dicussions about it.

Also, we have a college group in which we read Henri Nouwen’s book *The Life of the Beloved *. Now we are watching a series of videos of a Presbyterian minister listening to and answering ojbections from atheists. Aside from the fact that it’s a Protestant pastor answering it, it really generates discussion that bears fruit. For example, we were able to explain the Catholic Church’s teaching on evolution from it.

And then at a confirmation session last year, we showed the 8th graders Catholic Answers, LifeTeen, and Fr. Robert Barron, as well as teaching them the new Mass translation, and many other deep things.

For whatever this is worth, I had a little discussion with a catechist the other day. A woman of retirement age, she asked (demanded?) that our faith formation program include a May Crowning because “these kids need to know this stuff”. In fact, though our faith formation program generally wraps up for the year at the end of April, I had always thought that a “crowning” would be a nice way to close the year.

The catechist’s argument, however, was that the parish’s official May Crowning drew only 15 “old” people last year. The children should be required to attend the May Crowning as part of the program. A “crowning” at the end of the catechetical season did not satisfy her. Hmmmm…

After several more minutes of dialoge with her, I suspected that the reason for her insistance on a “May Crowning” as part of the parish’s celebration which had been so poorly attended in recent years was that this catechist wanted validation of her own experience. The more people (children) who attended the May Crowning, the more this validated the event for herself.

I wonder if this context gives some hint of explanation to the objections of adults toward youth ministry: using a classroom model for evangelization, we validate these adults who want the youth to be more like themselves or to be more like the experience that they, themselves, may have had.

John Paul II declared a “New Evangelization” meaning that we need to re-evangelize our own people who, in so many, many ways, do not know Christ. Evangelization means to bring Christ to people through an experience of Christ that generates desire for Christ…a discovering and knowing through a stirring of the heart (emotion?). Catechesis is the academics that are sought and can then be taught once a person has come to Christ… has experienced Christ.

It seems to me that youth ministry aims to lead and guide youth to Christ so that they might desire to know Him better through 1) catechesis. That this process isn’t happening quickly enough to impress some adults is unfortunate, but don’t let that discourage you. Youth are precious little creatures; sometimes foolish and ridiculous and even infuriating and worrisome, but memorization of the Catechism will probably evangelize them less so than the example of living faith that you provide through your fun experiences with them.