Why do people vote against their own interests? (American Healthcare reform)

[gurneyhalleck1]

Agreed. I am a vegetarian. I don’t say that too loudly in here for fear of lynching LOL! I only eat organic as well. Not a big fan of ingesting pesticides, hormones, anti-biotics, and garbage but hey, that’s just me!

I think if we were all vegetarians, there’s be a lot less obese people and we’d live a lot longer. Candy, ice cream, soda,alcohol and many of the other items you’ve mentioned all have sugar in them. More then you ever need. You get enough natural sugar from fresh fruit; No one needs food with refined sugar in it. cutting out all the junk people eat would go a long way to help prevent diabetes and other health related issues.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Cool! Let’s hope. Maybe our insurance premiums will go down and hospitals won’t be overflowing! Imagine cutting down on sodium and fat. What a nightmare!

Don’t worry, the government is going to take care of our fat, sugar, and salt intake shortly.

 

[St_Francis]

Your post is perfectly compelling without the unecessary nasty statement that I’ve been “spouting off.” And why is your post NOT “spouting off?” I suppose your points are lucid and intelligent, right? I’m tired of people on this forum using nasty terms like “rants” and “spouting” when you disagree. Can you disagree with me respectfully without the garbage?

I totally disagree with your analysis. There is no fuel or evidence to support it. Consider this:

50 years ago we scarcely had “fast food.”
50 years ago we didn’t have video games, kids played outside, not sedentary
50 years ago people didn’t suck down soda 24/7
50 years ago we didn’t have trans fats/partially hydrogenated oils
50 years ago we didn’t use hormones and antibiotics in chicken and milk
50 years ago we used less preservatives
50 years ago portion sizes weren’t the size of Wyoming

Something to think about before you start “ranting” that somehow the drinking water or aliens are responsible for us all getting fat.

It’s a simple formula: open mouth more, stuff food in more, less activity, fatter.

The tone of each of your remarks struck me as spouting off; maybe it’s just the nature of the internet where we can’t hear one’s tone of voice, etc. I’m sorry if I said you were spouting off when you weren’t.

I suffered for 5 years from a condition which doctors told me was all in my head, until I went to a doctor fresh out of medical school who knew about the newly-discovered problem. It is just lousy to be told by everyone that whatever your problem is is all your fault when you actually have no control over it. It’s not just kids who are heavier than people used to be; it’s adults as well.

Do you think all these people *want *to be fat? Do you think they *haven’t *tried to do anything about it? And yet their efforts fail. I see this as being very similiar to my previous situation, when one is struggling with a problem and being told it’s all one’s own fault, that if they could just do X, the problem would disappear.

I live in a place where the nearest fast food place is over an hour away–people here are not living off MacDonald’s and yet there are at least as many overweight people, proportionately as there are elsewhere.

But people who are already fat are not going to want to engage in physical activity, and if the weight were to have been caused by some other reason, then you’d have a person who may have once been physically active and who is now stuck with this condition which reduces the ability for physical activity while also being stuck with being criticized for not engaging in physical activity. It’s just a vicious cycle, and I think, like a lot of other people do, that *maybe *there is another cause.

And I think it’s very reasonable to think there may be another cause, because of the change in statistics. The position of many people is this: a lot of people suddenly started living in a way which made them very uncomfortable and unhealthy and brought them a lot of criticism and mean joking against them. Despite the ease of relieving this–eat less, exercise more–these people persist in being overweight to obese.

I’m sorry, that doesn’t make sense to me. That is why I try not to criticize people for being overweight and really believe that there is some factor outside the people themselves which has caused this.

ETA: And yes, I may have been spouting off.

 

[steveandersen]

…

Why are so many American voters enraged by attempts to change a horribly inefficient system that leaves them with premiums they often cannot afford?

people often fear change and a system designed to save money obviously does so by reducing someones income
those industries will not go quietly into the night and have funded this campaign fiction that it is “socialism”
add to that it was an election year and the Republicans lost so large last time they needed something to get back on top

the other thing I noticed in conversations with my family is the unfortunate attitude that even though they knew it would help others they didn’t want their own costs to go up. sort of an “I got mine the heck with every body else attitude”

the quote i heard most frequently was “Why should I have to pay for someone else’s health care?” it was often followed by insinuations about “those people”… lazy… stupid… not deserving… etc

I was fairly shocked that attitude existed in my own family

Why is that Americans are voting against steps to provide free healthcare when its in your own personal and financial interests?

Before anyone argues about my use of the word “free” - the healthcare is free. You pay tax yes, but it doesn’t increase when you go into hospital therefore you’re not being charged for the care you’re receiving, therefore it is free TO YOU. It’s like paying the postage on what you order but not actually paying for the order itself.

sorry Lemon … it’s not “free”
the costs are shared amongst the group by they are there all the same

The article might be from earlier this year but it discusses the reasons why people have been against it, from an outsider’s perspective (British). This is where I’m coming from as a British person - I just can’t understand why people are against attempts to make it “free.” The issue of “Obamacare” is very much topical at the moment in the USA, and it’s got us Brits talking again too.

I’m told that back in the 1930’s there was an uproar of the start of Social Security. my Grandfather, a Danish immigrant, couldn’t understand it. they had old age pensions for decades at that point.

I suppose it is all what you’re used to. regardless of cost

the British were relatively late getting into the health care business. My understanding is that it was a combination quid pro quo to the population for demanding mass conscription armies plus a recognition that the general health was shockingly low for the recruits.

I tried to explain to my family that it is partly a national defense issue but they had drank the “socialist” cool-aid

 

[SamH]

The government already provides healthcare coverage via Medicare and Medicaide. We’ve heard earfulls of rancor and bile from the Republicans about the government providing healthcare while they screech about saving Medicare and Medicaide and lambast Democrats for proposing a decrease in it’s funding out of the other side of their mouths.
.

Have you checked out the status of Medicare? Doctors are refusing to take new patients and many are dropping existing patients that rely on Medicare. The program supposedly wastes 500 billion even with its low reimbursement rates. The democrats put this program in place, made people pay for it and are now diverting the funding to other projects. But I guess you are fine with that.

Raising taxes isn’t necessary. The healthcare bill will cost $150 billion per year. The military can’t account for 25% of it’s expenditures which means that it doesn’t need it. Decrease the DOD budget by 25% and shift it to healthcare funding and voila, you’ve got your $150 billion plus another $20 billion for a rainy day. .

Then why does the “Health Care” bill have so many new taxes?

 

[DawnInTexas]

Why do people vote against their own interests-you ask?

I, for one, vote for what’s in my own best interest, and that of my family.
ObamaCare is not in my best interest-nor that of my Countrymen.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

 

[LemonAndLime]

Finally, Americans are not as complacent as Europeans. We are used to having excellent healthcare, and if we can, we are willing to pay for it with insurance. Since you have stated that you don’t get the “real” reasons people don’t want universal healthcare, you are not understanding how things work here. It’s always best not to criticize that which we do not know about.

Our healthcare system is excellent thank you very much, what makes you think we’re complacent and used to substandard care? I’m being accused of talking about what I don’t know but here are all these Americans telling me the NHS is substandard to their system and aren’t proving it. I did a little research about US vs UK healthcare. I think you’ll find its the USA’s healthcare which is substandard and the American people who are complacent.
usa-vs-uk.com:

The most expensive in the world, the American healthcare system is also riddled with problems and contradictions. In short, the American system is a work in progress, driven by a disparate array of interests with two goals that are often in conflict: providing healthcare to the sick, and generating income for the persons and organizations that assume the financial risk.
The government’s annual bill for healthcare spending – $3,925 per
person – significantly exceeds that of other nations, because
physicians’ salaries and hospital costs are higher, and medical
technology is more widely used.
The transfer of funds among federal and state Medicare and Medicaid
programs is another important component of national healthcare
spending. The American healthcare system is at once the most expensive
and the most inadequate system in the developed world.

USA disadvantages 1 Only those who can afford insurance receive the best of healthcare and many parts of society are left without cover 2 The cost of medicine is significantly more expensive due to political issues 3 Preventative medicine is not practiced to ensure the nations overall health 4 Children’s dental health and eyesight needs are not covered as well 5 Many citizens continue to work after retirement as it is the only way health cover can continue 3

usa-vs-uk.com/healthcare.html
Liberal Conspiracy:

It’s worth noting in this US vs the NHS row is that the US has just about the highest healthcare spending in the world – 2nd highest by percentage of GDP, first by overall cost – largely because it’s among the most expensive. Time for some numbers – all freely available via Google.

I hold no brief for the NHS (and unlike most LibCon contributors tend to lean towards part-privatisation of its services), I’m just interested in the facts, so feel free to correct me if I’ve got some of the maths or figures wrong.

Of the c.15% of GDP the US spends on healthcare annually (that’s about $2.2 trillion*), around 50% is spent by the government (around $1.1 trillion). By contrast, the UK spends around 8% of its GDP on healthcare, with the Department of Health’s budget for the NHS (England**) in 2008/9 around £94 billion (about $155 billion).

The English NHS cares for 49 million people (100% of the population of England); US public healthcare currently covers about 83 million (around 28% of the US population).

For a direct comparison, that means that in England the government spends around $3,200 per capita on healthcare and covers the entire population whereas in the US the federal government spends around $3,700 per capita and yet covers less than a third of the population.

liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/14/uk-v-usa-the-basic-healthcare-facts/

 

[mary_bobo]

Our healthcare system is excellent thank you very much, what makes you think we’re complacent and used to substandard care? I’m being accused of talking about what I don’t know but here are all these Americans telling me the NHS is substandard to their system and aren’t proving it. I did a little research about US vs UK healthcare. I think you’ll find its the USA’s healthcare which is substandard and the American people who are complacent.

usa-vs-uk.com/healthcare.html

liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/14/uk-v-usa-the-basic-healthcare-facts/

Perhaps you have not had a serious illness and needed care immediately. There is nothing substandard about our healthcare, but if it pleases you to think so, have at it. Universal health care results in less equipment, fewer doctors, longer waits. I do not think that is in the best interest of my family. As I mentioned before, I was seriously ill in a country with universal health care which my friends there said was “free”, and I almost died as a result. Spent ten days in ICU and two more weeks in the hospital. The cause of all of that would not have happened had I been in the states at the time. If you are happy with what you have there, I am glad for you, but please keep it there.

 

[Wolseley]

Why are so many American voters enraged by attempts to change a horribly inefficient system that leaves them with premiums they often cannot afford?

Because what the government wants to replace it with is a system that’s even more inefficient and is inevitably going to be somethging that the taxpayers still can’t afford. This country is bankrupt. We can’t pay for this mess they’ve created.

I have no problem with reforming the health-care system, but not the way that Pelosi, Reid, and Obama did it.

Why is that Americans are voting against steps to provide free healthcare when its in your own personal and financial interests?

There’s no such thing as “free health care”. Somebody, somewhere, is going to have to pay for it eventually. Most Americans recognize that, just as they also recognize that we can’t pay for this monster that Congress brought to life. It either has got to be scaled back, reduced, or killed outright, or it will play a major part in killing us in the end.

 

[SamH]

There’s no such thing as “free health care”. Somebody, somewhere, is going to have to pay for it eventually. Most Americans recognize that, just as they also recognize that we can’t pay for this monster that Congress brought to life. It either has got to be scaled back, reduced, or killed outright, or it will play a major part in killing us in the end.

When people point to 45% support for healthcare many in that 45% believe they will get FREE HEALTHCARE, they just have to wait until 2016 or so. We have a 54 year old secretary that is convinced she’ll have free health care in two years - Obama told her so.

 

[the_phoenix]

“Why do people vote against their own interests? (American Healthcare reform)”

I vote for the interests of the Catholic Church,
whose Truths by the way are universal, and not restricted to America.
Therefore, I vote for the right to life of the unborn child in the womb.
And I vote for compassionate end-of-life care which does NOT include euthanasia.
I also vote for the right to choose … when the choice is whether or not to purchase a health insurance package for yourself.

Remember John Donne?
“Each man’s death diminishes me
for I am involved in mankind.”

Plus, voting for the interests of the Catholic Church
is in fact a vote in favor of my own interests
when it comes to my eternal salvation.

Yours “for life,”

~~ the phoenix

 

[mellowcalico]

I am all for healthcare reform, but I don’t like the current administration’s healthcare package.

I don’t like the package because my premiums went up a lot because of it and now, that I am facing unemployment and a very tight budget I am going to be forced to buy something I really can’t afford (by law no less).

There has always been charitable and and free healthcare in the U.S. A hospital can’t turn you away if you are injured, etc. And they can’t “force” you to pay medical bills if you can’t. There is medicare for those who can’t afford it. But people do indeed fall though the cracks–but people seem to fall though the cracks no matter what medical system is in place (socialized vs. privatized).

I don’t think the system was perfect by a long shot, but I don’t think the approach proposed to reform it is the correct one. I would have rather seen improvements on the already government run healthcare options (medicare and medicaid). In other words, first try to fix what’s already in place before adding something new to the bureaucracy. I would also like to see things that improved patients rights, but at the same time stop frivolous lawsuits against doctors (lawsuits done for greed… lawsuits that jack up the price of healthcare for everyone).

Anyway, I guess my point is I can’t see how the new system has helped anyone… prices are going up as are taxes and healthcare isn’t improving. We need reform, but I don’t think the current plan is the right answer.

 

[PatriceA]

“Why do people vote against their own interests? (American Healthcare reform)”

I vote for the interests of the Catholic Church,
whose Truths by the way are universal, and not restricted to America.
Therefore, I vote for the right to life of the unborn child in the womb.
And I vote for compassionate end-of-life care which does NOT include euthanasia.
I also vote for the right to choose … when the choice is whether or not to purchase a health insurance package for yourself.

Remember John Donne?
“Each man’s death diminishes me
for I am involved in mankind.”

Plus, voting for the interests of the Catholic Church
is in fact a vote in favor of my own interests
when it comes to my eternal salvation.

Yours “for life,”

~~ the phoenix

that pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[SamH]

The other thing to consider - the Cadillac tax on health plans. Even our basic plan with fairly high deductables will hit the “Cadillac” tax in 2018 with 9% annual increases. Given the “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act” adds additional 3% annually to the increases, our plan will be there even if other cost increases are held in check.

Who can afford a 40% excise tax on top of their already expensive health insurance?

 

[estesbob]

As we saw last night people do vote for their own self-interest. A more honest question would ,have been “why do people vote against left-wing ideology”? The answer being, of course that anybody with an ounce of common sense has seen what a disaster this ideology has caused for the people were ever it was implemented.

 

[wabrams]

2 The cost of medicine is significantly more expensive due to political issues

usa-vs-uk.com/healthcare.html

This one really stuck out for me. Pharmaceuticals are expensive here b/c of all the research done right here in the US, not political reasons.

 

[Andrew1983]

As we saw last night people do vote for their own self-interest. A more honest question would ,have been “why do people vote against left-wing ideology”? The answer being, of course that anybody with an ounce of common sense has seen what a disaster this ideology has caused for the people were ever it was implemented.

Amen to that, Brother.

LemonandLime, you really think that it’s within America’s best interest to spend massive amounts of money on 2000 page pieces of legislation that no one reads, passes it, all the while riding a multi-trillion dollar deficit and being financially enslaved to China (who I can guarantee is NOT looking out for your or my better interest)?

 

[michaeljason]

Forgive me if this was already brought up, as I haven’t ready all 8 pages of this thread, but there’s also a great deal of pork in the Obamacare bill, and legislation that is out of place, and has nothing to do with health care. For example, did you know that once it goes into affect, all student loans will have to be written and secured by the US government? What’s the agenda behind that? That’s one of those things that slipped through, because very few of our esteemed representatives bothered to read the damn thing.

I truly believe health care is in dire need of reform here. REFORM - not handouts of subpar healthcare for all. How getting big pharma under control? Or putting some type of cap on malpractice awards? Look at your itemized bill the next time you stay in the hospital. Do you really believe 2 over the counter aspirins cost $146? No, it certainly doesn’t, and the insane cost of carrying malpractice insurance is a big part of why the prices are so high.

I don’t want the government to be involved in health care in any way other than fixing the root of the problems of why it’s so expensive. Is that too much to ask? For the government to actuall GOVERN instead of RULE?

As it is, before my paycheck is even deposited in the bank, 30-35% of my gross income has wound up in Uncle Sam’s pockets. When the notion of income tax was introduced in the early 1900s, a cap on tax percentage was proposed - and keep in mind, at the time, income tax was only supposed to apply to the “excessively rich” - and member of congress scoffed at the idea of setting a maximum rate, saying the American people would revolt if the government dared to set the income tax at more than 10%, so no cap was necessary. Just goes to show how far things have gone in 100 years.

Anyway, I guess I’m just tired of seeing so much of my money winding up in the hands of the government, when they clearly don’t have the best interest of me and my family at heart. Or any American for that matter. I’m paying more in taxes than I ever have in my adult life, and we’re carrying a national debt in the trillions. At what point does our government finally get the message and realize that robbing Peter to pay Paul just doesn’t work?

One final bit of food for thought - when I was in my early 20s, I was all for a lot of these things that seem to be “in everyone’s best interest”. But I grew up. I realized the world doesn’t run on rainbows, pixie dust, and kitten farts, and you can’t make something from nothing. Nothing is “free”, and a government big enough to give you everything you want can take it all away. I’d rather not give the government so much of my money. I’d be much happier if the same percentage went to my Church, or other charitable organizations. I have no problem with charity - I’m a big fan of it in fact.

The government isn’t a charity - it’s conditioning people to be dependent on it in the form of handouts.

 

[Janet1983]

It ain’t free and it’s being forced down people’s throats. If people vote against it, maybe it’s because they don’t want it?? This system can and will not be free and we sure don’t need more taxes. If you want an example of how that system kills itself, look to Germany. The care is only really good for those who are not bound by law to buy government health insurance. “Private” patients get to choose their doctors from a larger number, they are getting preferred treatment, they have a right to have the most experienced doctor work with them and they are getting rooms with a maximum of one other person with them in there. They also pay more though and their deductible might go up over the years. If you are in public healthcare you can wait for hours at the doctor even if you have an appointment. They will put you in a hospital room with 3 or more others and they let the assistant work on you. If you want to choose your doctor, you might find out that the best doctors in town only take private patients as their insurance pays them better than public healthcare and they need to live on something too.
I’ve seen both sides. Growing up I was in the healthcare system. When I married I got the treatment of a private patient as my insurance was Tricare which is recognized as a private insurance in the German system.
While in the public system they will always choose the cheaper option for you (even though it might not be as beneficial) they will make sure that you are getting the best option as a private patient. I had to get a surgery done at a hospital and they actually asked me politely whether it would be alright if I wasn’t being seen by the most senior doctor of the clinic, but the second most senior and asked me whether they could have that in writing. I got out of there and somebody put me into a room with 4 other patients where I was when I woke up. When they looked at my file they grew all frantic and if I hadn’t told them that I wasn’t planning on staying anyway they would have put me in a single room immediately because of my status.
The regular system in Germany is broke. Their doctors aren’t given a whole lot of money from public patients and that is why private patients get every luxury so that they choose to come back. The system is so bad that they are actually thinking about trying to pump more money in. It used to be a certain percentage of the income, but that doesn’t cut it. Then they introduced having to pay 10 Euros per Quarter to go to the primary care provider (if you don’t go you don’t pay) and to be referred from there (and if you are without a referral, the specialist will get 10 Euros from you for that quarter). That isn’t enough either, so they recently changed it to where you pay for every visit. That’s a lot of money if you don’t have a lot.
They were also debating putting a certain Euro amount on everybody (which would not change with a higher income).
The system doesn’t work and it will only make the problem worse. Forcing healthcare that doesn’t cut it on someone who could pay for something better themselves and making ridiculous debt all the way isn’t the way this should be run.
Germany is just one example of the system not working… It’s a financial colossus and cuts are just not avoidable at all. Every one of those systems has to dramatically cut their budget if they want to carry on. That however will lower the standard of care even further.
For states like Germany this means that people go ahead and get additional insurances to make up for the losses in case they have problems with their teeth or want a good treatment in hospitals. This is literally turning society into two groups: Those who can afford private care and are eligible in combination with those who are not eligible to opt out of the government system, but can afford to by additional insurances on one side. On the other side there are those who just cannot afford additional insurances and they get the 2nd class citizen treatment. If I am not mistaken that was exactly what this system was trying to prevent. Socialism in healthcare just doesn’t work. It’s a sinkhole…
This type of healthcare is a severe problem wherever it is implemented. Why then would we want it?

 

[Janet1983]

As we saw last night people do vote for their own self-interest. A more honest question would ,have been “why do people vote against left-wing ideology”? The answer being, of course that anybody with an ounce of common sense has seen what a disaster this ideology has caused for the people were ever it was implemented.