Why do Protestant Apologists feel the need to lie about history and the Catholic Church?

[Daniel_Marsh]

The problem is we have those who write polemics, who themselves are anti-intellectual, anti-scholarship. So, they collect authors like Dave Hunt who tickles their ears. I often find myself butting heads with fellow protestants who do not understand why I research the greek and hebrew behind a text. They’ll write something about history simply because they do not know any better. And, because of their anti-intellectualism they will not read what historians and scholars have written on a given topic. So, we have people like Jack Chick writting history that is just plain silly like nuns and priests burrying their children in caves or tunnels, like the catholic church started islam, etc.,

The best thing a person can do when reading an author is check out their footnotes, go to original sources and find out that often they are misunderstanding their sources, taking things out of context, or even quoting themselves as “another scholar” who agrees with them.



The problem exists in what is known as Low Church vs High Church. Those in high churches tend to read the scholars, historians, etc. Whereas those in low churches tend to read anti-intellectual polemics that don’t know any better than spread rummors.

 

[Milliardo]

AMEN! But the question must be asked, is it possible for a Protestant not to be “anti-Catholic”, even on a subliminal level? A non-Catholic (even the ones that are trying to be “100% Christian”) must, by their very nature, oppose the Catholic Church in some form.

I don’t think it can be done, because at some level or other Protestants are taught, whether consciously or not, to be anti-Catholic. If not actively taught to be against the Church, they are taught those that are contrary to Catholic teaching. So the only way they could not be anti-Catholic is to actually be taught what the Church teaches, but that would eventually make them cease to be Protestants.

 

[Petergee]

Catholics disagree with one another over many many things; Popes have provided a very active history of disagreeing with one another; and what is wrong with that?

No Pope has ever disagreed with another Pope over a matter of Catholic dogma.

It’s just unfortunate that when someone believes differently, or, when someone openly challenges our beliefs; that some want so desperately to malign their character and integrity with words like “hate.”

I and I’m sure most other Catholics here have no problem with non-Catholics believing differently or challenging our beliefs. In fact I and many others love it when non-Catholics openly challenge our beliefs. What we’re objecting to on this thread is, I repeat again, the gross distortions of history and the gross lies about what Catholics believe and do.

Catholics are “anti-Adventist” just going by your standards; however, I do not personally consider most Catholics as “anti-Adventist.”

Please point out any lies which Catholics tell about the history or doctrines of the Adventists.

 

[Petergee]

This has not always been the case…fact.

If you would like to check out a very good website that is not slanderous or judgmental, please visit:

www.gotquestions.org

Peace

You’re kidding, right? I already pointed out earlier in this thread some of the ludicrous whoppers on this lie-filled site. There are many, many more lies on it, e.g. click on *“What is the origin of the Catholic Church?”: *It accuses Catholics of “worship / adoration of Mary”, “the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments”, that Emperor Constantine invented the Catholic Church as *“mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism” *including *“The Cult of Isis, an Egyptian mother-goddess religion, was absorbed into Christianity by replacing Isis with Mary”, *and Mithraism “the de-facto official religion until Constantine and succeeding Roman emperors replaced Mithraism with Christianity.”
Then it solemnly informs us that Constantine invented the supremacy of the bishop of Rome, because *“it is best for the unity of the Roman empire that the government and state religion be centered in the same location”. *Apparently this history-mangler is utterly ignorant (or expects his readers to be utterly ignorant) that Constantine transferred the capital from Rome to Constantinople, thousands of kilometres away!

 

[Mimi]

Protestants evaded the OPs question by bringing up totally different subjects, and several Catholics took the bait and responded to their off-topic red herrings instead of demanding that they answer the question.

When the protestants here claimed that there are many mainstream protestant sites which refute Catholicism without resorting to obvious lies about history and Catholic doctrines, my first thought was “Wow, maybe I overlooked something when I concluded that the protestants have no rational answer to Catholicism.” But I’ve begged protestants to show me these sites and have received a big fat zero in response.

Yes, interesting. I just did a quick search and came up with a couple sites, but none address Catholicism directly. This site:
%between%
(interestingly enough) has a lot of quotes from the Early Church Fathers, yet I wonder what the author(s) would say about Ignatius’ use of the term “catholica eklesia” (hope I spelled that right).

Sorry, I jumped in here after page 5 or so; I’m addressing an older post.

I have recently made a little headway with 2 Prot. friends of mine, one of who bought Common Ground, a DVD which is a conversation between a priest, Fr. Riccardo and his friend, the pastor of a lg evangelical non-denom type Christian community. It’s available throught Nineveh’s Crossing. It is really selling!! My friends who viewed this said it cleared up a some of the things they ‘thought Catholics believed’ but really didn’t. I’m trying to get one to look at the Early CHurch Fathers’ writings, particularly the book by Rod Bennett, Four Wtinessess.

I try to witness to my one friend/neighbor, but have to do it through just living out the Faith. She claimed once that “I don’t have to know my history” when I told her she did, but maybe it will just take time.

Pray the Rosary for the salvation of us all and that we “may all be One” as Jesus said.

God bless,
Mimi

 

[Mimi]

I think most Protestants sincerely believe they are in the right place, and as long as they love Jesus and attend services and read (notice I didn’t say study) the Bible, they’re gonna be okay. They get settled in one place, feel comfortable with their particular community of believers, have fellowship, a pastor that helps them with their problems and that’s enough.

I think a big part of the problem is miseducation. People who go to ‘Bible’ schools (like Moody Bible Institute, for example) believe these people have the scholarship and education to teach; they trust them. Their uncle and other family may have gone there. They have no reason to look ‘outside the box’ so to speak.

I think we Catholics need to be prepared in apologetics and Biblical/Church history to gently lead them into the fullness of the Truth of what Jesus taught. That is what Ecumenism is supposed to lead to!

Side note: I achieved posting my 300th post today!!! Yippee!

God bless - I’ll check back here later.
Petergee, I wonder if you’ll ever find an answer…

Mimi

 

[Fisher]

How many religions are there in the world?
Hundreds? Perhaps thousands? Just trying to
comprehend all the various belief systems and
religious structures in America alone can be mind
boggling. Most people have their fair share of
confusion and frustration trying to figure out which
religion believes what and in what ways they are
different.In fact, it seems that the latest craze is to just
toss them all into the same category and say, “They’re
all the same. We’re all going to the same place—just
as long as we believe”! While that’s convenient, itdoesn’t really make sense. What these religions believe
from one to the next varies widely. In fact, some are
diametrically opposed in belief. It sounds nice to
conclude that “all roads lead to the same place” but
that theory doesn’t hold water, and it isn’t supported
by the Bible.
So how do you sift through all the religious
“fluff” and cut to the heart of the matter? How can
you know truth from error—fact from fiction? How
can you discern between God’s true design and man’s
cheap substitute? The answer to these questions are
more simple than you could ever imagine.
Back to my original question. How many
religions are there in the world?
Would you believe two?
The truth is, you can categorize every single
religion of the world into one of two basic categories.
You can strip away all externals—from minor
differences to major theological divides—and cut
right to the heart of the matter rather easily.
Think of it this way. Most religions agree.
Most people
acknowledge a creator and a spiritual world. It’s
defining that creator and understanding that spiritual
world that starts to reveal the differences.
More importantly, it’s how to know the Creator
and how to enter into a peaceful “afterlife” that really
separates the groups. In other words—how do we
reach God, and how do we get to Heaven? In some
form or fashion, most religions of the world are
attempting to answer these two basic questions.
So, how can we take so many complicated
systems of belief and simplify them down to two basic
belief systems?

 

[DixiesFinest]

How many religions are there in the world?
Hundreds? Perhaps thousands? Just trying to
comprehend all the various belief systems and
religious structures in America alone can be mind
boggling. Most people have their fair share of
confusion and frustration trying to figure out which
religion believes what and in what ways they are
different.In fact, it seems that the latest craze is to just
toss them all into the same category and say, “They’re
all the same. We’re all going to the same place—just
as long as we believe”! While that’s convenient, itdoesn’t really make sense. What these religions believe
from one to the next varies widely. In fact, some are
diametrically opposed in belief. It sounds nice to
conclude that “all roads lead to the same place” but
that theory doesn’t hold water, and it isn’t supported
by the Bible.
So how do you sift through all the religious
“fluff” and cut to the heart of the matter? How can
you know truth from error—fact from fiction? How
can you discern between God’s true design and man’s
cheap substitute? The answer to these questions are
more simple than you could ever imagine.
Back to my original question. How many
religions are there in the world?
Would you believe two?
The truth is, you can categorize every single
religion of the world into one of two basic categories.
You can strip away all externals—from minor
differences to major theological divides—and cut
right to the heart of the matter rather easily.
Think of it this way. Most religions agree.
Most people
acknowledge a creator and a spiritual world. It’s
defining that creator and understanding that spiritual
world that starts to reveal the differences.
More importantly, it’s how to know the Creator
and how to enter into a peaceful “afterlife” that really
separates the groups. In other words—how do we
reach God, and how do we get to Heaven? In some
form or fashion, most religions of the world are
attempting to answer these two basic questions.
So, how can we take so many complicated
systems of belief and simplify them down to two basic
belief systems?

…and this has to do with protestant apologists…how?

 

[Protestant101]

Protestant101,

Once the big split occurred, the need for the splitters to justify their actions took on a life of its own.

There is truth in EVERY Christian church. It is just that the church founded by Christ retains the fullness of truth. That is why it cannot and will not change-Christ cannot and will not change.

Please consider: Father Abraham’s’ faith was certainly tested, when commanded to slay Isaac. However, his OBEDIENCE was the larger test. I choose to be obedient. It’s not my church, my faith, my scripture-it’s God’s. I must conform to His will and that is not comfortable because He is perfect and I am sinful.

This ended up either way too long, or not long enough, but rest assured that I choose a church founded by God over any founded by man (or woman).

Keep seeking the truth in its fullness.

Christ’s peace be with you, my brother.

LOL…Now I am a “splitter!” I have been called quite a list of things on this forum; but that is one of the more unique ones.

As far as I can see; there are lots of claims in Catholic literature to being “the true Church” “the Church founded by God;” etc. but there is very little solid evidence to back up it’s claim. I have seen nothing believable yet to convince me. Catholics tend to quote Catholic Church fathers; but this list of “early Church Fathers” is different than the Bible’s list.

 

[DixiesFinest]

LOL…Now I am a “splitter!” I have been called quite a list of things on this forum; but that is one of the more unique ones.

As far as I can see; there are lots of claims in Catholic literature to being “the true Church” “the Church founded by God;” etc. but there is very little solid evidence to back up it’s claim. I have seen nothing believable yet to convince me. Catholics tend to quote Catholic Church fathers; but this list of “early Church Fathers” is different than the Bible’s list.

Do tell, who are on the “Bible’s list” of Church Fathers (keeping in mind though, that we quote Church Fathers who lived and died before the Canon of Scripture was put together)?

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Neither the Catholic Church nor I are anti-anything, except satan.

And abortion, artifical birth control, ethunisa(sp) etc.

 

[jpaul]

There are countless anti-Catholic websites on the net, all of which contain nothing but lies against the RCC. They do this by grossly misrepresenting Catholic Doctrine, or by simply making up their own history; a history that conflicts with all modern historical evidence. These lies have obviously disseminated throughout the Protestant laity; however I’m not blaming them, they are the product of a 500 year propaganda campaign. Why is there this culture of misinformation among Protestantism?

Peace and all-good!

Protestantism is the offshoot of pride, disobedience and prejudice. It’s the sad part of christianity. Let us pray for healing, reconciliation and unity.

Ave Maria!

jpaul

 

[Petergee]

And abortion, artifical birth control, ethunisa(sp) etc.

i.e. all sin, which is personified by Satan.

 

[Protestant101]

Do tell, who are on the “Bible’s list” of Church Fathers (keeping in mind though, that we quote Church Fathers who lived and died before the Canon of Scripture was put together)?

Before we can get into this “list” it is necessary to answer one question.

Is the Catholic Church the Remnant Church spoken of in Bible prophecy?

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Protestant101]

No Pope has ever disagreed with another Pope over a matter of Catholic dogma.
I and I’m sure most other Catholics here have no problem with non-Catholics believing differently or challenging our beliefs. In fact I and many others love it when non-Catholics openly challenge our beliefs. What we’re objecting to on this thread is, I repeat again, the gross distortions of history and the gross lies about what Catholics believe and do.
Please point out any lies which Catholics tell about the history or doctrines of the Adventists.

Being “anti” something, does not always signify a lie. However; Catholics who choose to quote non-Adventist or ex-Adventist sources to “show” what Adventists “really believe” would be guilty of spreading lies. But I think the biggest lie starts when either side tries to attach adjectives such as “hatred” to the already exaggerated “lie” allegations.

 

[Petergee]

Being “anti” something, does not always signify a lie. However; Catholics who choose to quote non-Adventist or ex-Adventist sources to “show” what Adventists “really believe” would be guilty of spreading lies. But I think the biggest lie starts when either side tries to attach adjectives such as “hatred” to the already exaggerated “lie” allegations.

Um, you forgot to tell us what these supposed Catholic “lies” about SDAs are.
And hatred is not the topic of this thread. Lies are hateful, but we are talking about lying per se (i.e. proclaiming something which you know to be untrue).

 

[Mannyfit75]

Before we can get into this “list” it is necessary to answer one question.

Is the Catholic Church the Remnant Church spoken of in Bible prophecy?

Nope it is. The Catholic Church is depicted the Bride of the Lamb. The New Jerusalem.

The idea that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon is nothing more than Protestant Propaganda dating back to the Reformation.

Second, I would not even claim any false teachings you have. From what I heard about SDA is that many of the prophecy are false and many of their literature but that is another topic.

 

[Protestant101]

Nope it is. The Catholic Church is depicted the Bride of the Lamb. The New Jerusalem.

The idea that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon is nothing more than Protestant Propaganda dating back to the Reformation.

Second, I would not even claim any false teachings you have. From what I heard about SDA is that many of the prophecy are false and many of their literature but that is another topic.

Ok then; can you tell us what the Catholic teaching is regarding “the remnant” church?

 

[Protestant101]

Um, you forgot to tell us what these supposed Catholic “lies” about SDAs are.
And hatred is not the topic of this thread. Lies are hateful, but we are talking about lying per se (i.e. proclaiming something which you know to be untrue).

I am not sure that I actually called anything specifically “a Catholic lie” about Adventists. But there are a number of threads on this forum where Catholics quote Evangelicals for “truth” about us. This would be classed as spreading lies; although in some cases, unknowingly.

I know that this topic is not about hatred; however, because some Catholics here are choosing to call it hatred when someone (usually Protestants) says something in disagreement with them; and I am saying that too is a lie. That’s a lie which may in fact be hateful in some cases.

Calling one’s different understandings “lies” is OK, but we cross the line when we try to say it is hatred whenever someone disagrees with our theology. Accusing us of deliberately lying and of hatred, may in fact be hatred towards Protestants.

All I am saying is that both sides could well afford to drop adjectives like hatred and lying from this discussion. We are no different than you. We speak and write what we believe, not intending to lie or to hate in any form.

 

[Romans12]

I clicked on that second link, nearly laughed at the look on deacon fred’s face (looks as if he is mentally retarded), then read the sermon…is he really this stupid? He quotes pharisees attempting to bash JESVS to show how (as he calls them) “old men who like to play with little boys’ penises” cannot forgive sins.

Is this website a hoax? or is deacon fred really just this stupid?

This whole site is bogas!!! just go check it thoroughly… it attack’s all of the known religions of the world… look at the merchantdise it offers… only 1 word… Disgraceful!

This is one evil site, there is nothing Christian about it… steer clear of it… it gave me a sickly feeling… soon as I logged onto it to check this link!